Lens/strategy for photographing ballroom dancing?

[jeffpix]

Dear all,

I am interested in your advice on lenses and strategy for how to photograph ballroom dancing. This would be indoors (2 day indoor competition), and I would most likely be standing around the edge of the dance area.

My sense is that I am not optimally equipped for this, and I am thinking about renting a lens for the occasion. I own the Olympus 12 mm f2, 45 mm f1.8, 60 mm f2.8, 75 mm f1.8, and the 12-50 mm kit zoom. I virtually never use flash...some people can do it well--I have not figured this out.

My guess is that my 12-50 might be the most appropriate for the situation in terms of FL and flexibility, but it seems too slow for photographing motion indoors. (It might still be good for some video, however.) The 45 mm might also be good.

I am thinking of renting (LensRentals.com) either a 25 mm (one or the other) or the fancy new 12-40 f2.8. Does this seem like a worthwhile investment?

Has anyone successfully photographed dance? Links to photos?

Best regards,
Jeff

 

[Jim Salvas]

If they allow flash at the event, I think you're boxing yourself in by not using it.

Without it, you could opt for an expensive fast lens and high ISO, but the DOF will be so shallow there will be no sense of place and you won't even get an entire dancer's body in focus. From what I've seen of these events, the ambient lighting can be inconsistent to just plain low.

Flash will freeze the action while letting you use smaller apertures. A couple of remote TTL flashes would be ideal.

--

Jim Salvas

 

[jeffpix]

If they allow flash at the event, I think you're boxing yourself in by not using it.

Without it, you could opt for an expensive fast lens and high ISO, but the DOF will be so shallow there will be no sense of place and you won't even get an entire dancer's body in focus. From what I've seen of these events, the ambient lighting can be inconsistent to just plain low.

Flash will freeze the action while letting you use smaller apertures. A couple of remote TTL flashes would be ideal.

--

Jim Salvas

Hi Jim,

Thanks very much.

I will not be there in any official capacity, just as a parent! If I understand what you mean by remote flashes, I don't think I have the freedom to do this. The flash would need to be with me. I don't know whether they allow flash.

Regarding sense of place, I am not sure how important this will be. This is a college competition in Boston

http://www.harvardballroom.org/hi/

and I am not sure that the venue will be all that beautiful. But I do think I should give the flash a try at least some of the time (if allowed) -- will do some practicing in advance.

Best regards,
Jeff

 

[Jim Salvas]

Jeff - I would call and ask about flash use. I took a look at your link and saw photos of the ballroom. It's a challenging space, with mostly indirect lighting in high, vaulted ceilings. The ceilings are too high for bounce lighting, so your best bet is to use a direct flash with the biggest diffuser/bounce card you can get.

You might also ask if they will be using theatrical lighting, which could help you get some non-flash photos with minimal motion blur. If you go that way, your 75 or 45 lenses could work OK, if you pan with the action of the dancers. You can call it artistic blur.

 

[Miron09]

the use of flash would be reckless

In events with spare light and many people it is likely that many are upset about strong flash (and only strong flash will be of any use)

I´d take two fast lenses and if it doesn´t work out I´d just enjoy the evening, without taking pictures

https://picasaweb.google.com/110955...pierreVDEaster2013?authuser=0&feat=directlink

 

[FrankS009]

As a relative beginner, I have been experimenting a bit with photographing ballroom dancing, and posted the following thread

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52225209

last summer. I have also taken photographs at various ballroom dancing practices using different lenses - (20mm, 60mm) with varying results.

I experimented with using mostly the 25mm FL of my 14-45 zoom with the helpful comments that resulted. Apart from checking the exposure, the advice that sticks with me most is the advice to use a wide angle lens while looking up at the dancers. I wonder how a 7-14mm might work. I have also taken photographs at various ballroom dancing practices using different lenses - (20mm, 60mm) - all without flash with varying results. Must say I feel more neophyte than expert on the subject. But it is fun to do.

F.

When no-one else is there, the camera becomes my means...to say to a wider audience, "Did you see that?" David duChemin

 

[jeffpix]

the use of flash would be reckless

In events with spare light and many people it is likely that many are upset about strong flash (and only strong flash will be of any use)

I´d take two fast lenses and if it doesn´t work out I´d just enjoy the evening, without taking pictures

https://picasaweb.google.com/110955...pierreVDEaster2013?authuser=0&feat=directlink

This fits my photographic style...I try not to be conspicuous, which is one of the reasons I chose m4/3. Thanks very much.

Jeff

 

[Jim Salvas]

Without flash, set your camera to shutter-preferred mode, set the shutter at around 1/400 and let the ISO go up until you're not underexposing with your fastest lens. My guess is you will be at ISO 6400 or more with your 45 or 75.

It will be like shooting a basketball game, but with worse lighting.

 

[jeffpix]

Hi Jim, Frank, and Miron,

Thanks very much for the advice and the example pictures from Frank, which are all very helpful.

I also realized that I could do a google search on images for ballroom dance competitions, and there is an infinite supply of pictures to look at, with a wide range of quality! Some clearly using flash...

Best regards,
Jeff

 

[Paulmorgan]

Dear all,

I am interested in your advice on lenses and strategy for how to photograph ballroom dancing. This would be indoors (2 day indoor competition), and I would most likely be standing around the edge of the dance area.

My sense is that I am not optimally equipped for this, and I am thinking about renting a lens for the occasion. I own the Olympus 12 mm f2, 45 mm f1.8, 60 mm f2.8, 75 mm f1.8, and the 12-50 mm kit zoom. I virtually never use flash...some people can do it well--I have not figured this out.

My guess is that my 12-50 might be the most appropriate for the situation in terms of FL and flexibility, but it seems too slow for photographing motion indoors. (It might still be good for some video, however.) The 45 mm might also be good.

I am thinking of renting (LensRentals.com) either a 25 mm (one or the other) or the fancy new 12-40 f2.8. Does this seem like a worthwhile investment?

Has anyone successfully photographed dance? Links to photos?
Best regards,
Jeff

My guess is that my 12-50 might be the most appropriate for the situation in terms of FL and flexibility, but it seems too slow for photographing motion indoors

???

 

[Martin.au]

Without flash, set your camera to shutter-preferred mode, set the shutter at around 1/400 and let the ISO go up until you're not underexposing with your fastest lens. My guess is you will be at ISO 6400 or more with your 45 or 75.

It will be like shooting a basketball game, but with worse lighting.

 

[vbloomfield]

You might want to look on the web for work by Doug Plummer, who (among other things) specializes in photography of contradance. E.g., http://dougplummer.com/Music-&-Dance/.

It's not ballroom dancing, but the motion and environment are pretty similar. Plummer makes great use of slow shutter speeds to show the blur of the dancers, but he also has some quite sharp photos. I don't think that his photos are accompanied by shutter speed/aperture/ISO information, but you might try emailing him to get some suggestions.

Regards, Victor Bloomfield

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/victor/hereandthere

http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=victorb&commit=Search

 

[Mikity]

I have just been photographing tango dancers, in a dimly-lit indoor environment, without any sort of flash. I use my E-M10 and the Oly 45mm. Provided you're not too close for this long-ish focal length, you can take some truly awesome pictures - I love the sharpness of this lens, and I shot most of my pictures wide open.

I'd suggest changing the focus zone to the central 3x3 boxes, and the drive mode to "sequential low". ISO Auto (up to 3200) should be OK. One more thing I found useful is to make sure you're using face detection (with eye priority). I'll try and post some of my pics soon. Good luck!

 

[thrash]

There are a few things to watch out for at events like these. Very often there will be a professional event photographer on contract to shoot the event, and sell photos to competitors. In my experience it is best to chat with that individual before shooting and assure them that you are only shooting for yourself, and are likely to purchase any shots they get that you like. Otherwise you may well be asked not to shoot at all.

All that said, I am a recent m43 convert, and this info comes from my experience shooting many of these events on an APS-C rig.

Flash is common at these events, so my setup of choice was a large flash mounted on a bracket above & to the side of the lens, fast constant aperture lens, the 12-40 f2.8 you mentioned would be ideal. Set shutter speed and flash sync to 1/250 and fire away. It can help to watch for the dancers path and prefocus a spot then catch them as you go through.

The Latin styles are easier, since the dancers move less than the Smooth styles. For example waltz and quickstep move around the whole floor in a rapid circuit, while cha-cha and others are far more stationary comparatively.

Good luck, the lighting is invariably atrocious, but you can get some great shots!

--thrash


--
I am not who I am.

 

[lancespring]

Jeff - I would call and ask about flash use. I took a look at your link and saw photos of the ballroom. It's a challenging space, with mostly indirect lighting in high, vaulted ceilings. The ceilings are too high for bounce lighting, so your best bet is to use a direct flash with the biggest diffuser/bounce card you can get.

I have to completely disagree with your assessment here of this venue. I went to his link, and the ballroom that is shown looks nothing at all like what you describe.

What webpage did you look at? I went to this webpage showing the ballroom in the upper right part of the page:

http://www.harvardballroom.org/hi/venue.php#ballroom

The photo on the left side of the page with the high ceiling is very obviously the foyer, and not the ballroom itself.

It should be easy to bounce flash off the ceiling in the ballroom. But the key question is this: does the OP even have an external flash for his Olympus? I've not seen that he has mentioned that he does.

.

 

[lancespring]

the use of flash would be reckless

In events with spare light and many people it is likely that many are upset about strong flash (and only strong flash will be of any use)

These are biased comments in my opinion. Flash bounced off the ceiling could be extremely effective in this situation. And since it would be coming down the ceiling, it is not going to bother people anywhere near as much as direct flash would.

A higher ISO such as 640 or 800 could also be used, that would reduce the amount of flash needed.

.

 

[lancespring]

This fits my photographic style...I try not to be conspicuous, which is one of the reasons I chose m4/3. Thanks very much.

Well, but if one takes being inconspicuous to the point where the quality of your photo suffers, then that is like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Advanced flash techniques is a rather complex subject that takes time and some effort to study and master well. But if you don't own an external flash for your camera, then the whole topic is pretty much a moot point here.

.

 

[lancespring]

As a relative beginner, I have been experimenting a bit with photographing ballroom dancing, and posted the following thread

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52225209

last summer. I have also taken photographs at various ballroom dancing practices using different lenses - (20mm, 60mm) with varying results.

I am sorry, but this example that you posted of taking photos of outdoor dancing at a daytime summer fair in bright sunshine is nothing at all like the environment that the OP is going to be facing taking indoor photos at night inside a ballroom. You are comparing totally different lighting environments that will need radically different exposures.

And some of your exposures are well off the mark from being appropriate. Your very first dancing image has quite a bit of motion blur in it, due to the fact that the exposure was taken at ISO 100 at 1/50th sec at f/5.

You really should be using a fast shutter speed under bright daylight conditions like that. I can think of no valid reason not to.

.

 

[vbloomfield]

Here is an instructional video by Doug Plummer. Again, it's about contradance, but there should be a fair bit that's pertinent to other dances.

How To Take Dance Photos That Don't Suck

Doug Plummer discusses his approach and gives tips on how to photograph contra dancing, in this real-time tutorial shot at the May Madness dance weekend in Clarkdale,…

vimeo.com

Regards,

Victor Bloomfield

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/victor/hereandthere

http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=victorb&commit=Search

 

[Donald Chin]

Dear all,

I am interested in your advice on lenses and strategy for how to photograph ballroom dancing. This would be indoors (2 day indoor competition), and I would most likely be standing around the edge of the dance area.

My sense is that I am not optimally equipped for this, and I am thinking about renting a lens for the occasion. I own the Olympus 12 mm f2, 45 mm f1.8, 60 mm f2.8, 75 mm f1.8, and the 12-50 mm kit zoom. I virtually never use flash...some people can do it well--I have not figured this out.

My guess is that my 12-50 might be the most appropriate for the situation in terms of FL and flexibility, but it seems too slow for photographing motion indoors. (It might still be good for some video, however.) The 45 mm might also be good.

I am thinking of renting (LensRentals.com) either a 25 mm (one or the other) or the fancy new 12-40 f2.8. Does this seem like a worthwhile investment?

Has anyone successfully photographed dance? Links to photos?
Best regards,
Jeff

Shooting dance competition is tough especially for parents who want to capture their children because the dance floor is usually packed and lighting is not ideal. Most of the time you will be forced to shoot those just in front of you at eye level, and isolation of subject is indeed very difficult. If I were you I would just relax and concentrate more on taking snap shots before and after the competition. Regarding your gears except the 12~50 which is too slow for indoors, the 12/2, 45/1.8 & 75/1.8 should be ok.

That's what you should encounter in the competition. Dance floor packed with dancers, flat & dim lighting.



For winner performance & professional showcase, life will be much easier because there should be spotlight and the dance floor is clear.



2011DancesportOpen

2010DonnieBurnsCup

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