SD-15 and Wide Angle Flare (DP1X)

[robertseymour]

I am currently a user of the DP1X and DP3M, a while back I was looking into a SD15 but I bought a DP3M instead.

I am once again looking at the SD15 after reviewing some recent photos comparing the older 4.75mp chip to the newer 14.7mp Merrill sensor.

I actually prefer the output of the older sensor, it seems to clip highlights better (less), lower noise and higher dynamic range. I also like the fact I can use it straight in Lightroom without having to use SPP.

Initially, I would be looking at a wide angle lens for the SD15, wider than the 16.6mm on the DP1X. I plan to keep both the DP1X and DP3M to cover their respective focal range.

On a recent trip, I had some photos that were taken with the Sun in the frame:

https://flic.kr/p/j2Za7Z

https://flic.kr/p/j31GR6

Will the SD15 have similar flare issues?

One thing I would love to keep is the lovely stars that I get from lights on long exposures:

https://flic.kr/p/j34Jwf

And I guess the 10-20mm is the best lens for me, as I have discounted the 8-16mm as it wont take filters. I want to use ND filters with it, really only on the wide angle.

A fisheye is a possibility but I have never shot with one.

Any experiences with the SD15, Wide Angle Lenses and flare?

Cheers, Rob

 

[PrebenR]

I am currently a user of the DP1X and DP3M, a while back I was looking into a SD15 but I bought a DP3M instead.

I am once again looking at the SD15 after reviewing some recent photos comparing the older 4.75mp chip to the newer 14.7mp Merrill sensor.

I actually prefer the output of the older sensor, it seems to clip highlights better (less), lower noise and higher dynamic range.

I don't agree with that. SD15 has more noise than the Merrill. Also you have to be careful with highlight due to AFE. If I was you I'd also have a look at SD1M or wait until the dp2 Quattro to have a look at how that sensor behaves.

But if you use it at ISO 50-100 you won't have noise problems. At 200 you cannot push the shadows. At any rate get a used SD15.

I also like the fact I can use it straight in Lightroom without having to use SPP.

Well, you loose a lot of opportunity of enhancing the RAW file by using Lightroom. Also from what I have read the conversion isn't exactly the best?

Initially, I would be looking at a wide angle lens for the SD15, wider than the 16.6mm on the DP1X. I plan to keep both the DP1X and DP3M to cover their respective focal range.

Perhaps the 8-16mm and 10-20mm?

On a recent trip, I had some photos that were taken with the Sun in the frame:

https://flic.kr/p/j2Za7Z

https://flic.kr/p/j31GR6

Will the SD15 have similar flare issues?

With SD15 you can also get flare, but not like this. At least I have not seen it. It will be lens flare and that is dependant on the lens and lens hood you use. This flare you show is due to the light reflections inside the small dp cameras.

Example for lens flare with 8-16mm http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/36935199

One thing I would love to keep is the lovely stars that I get from lights on long exposures:

https://flic.kr/p/j34Jwf

And I guess the 10-20mm is the best lens for me, as I have discounted the 8-16mm as it wont take filters. I want to use ND filters with it, really only on the wide angle.

I think one can use some filter set on the 8-16mm. Cokin X-Pro. Have a look here: http://www.stockholmviews.com/sigma_8-16/sigma-8-16mm-filters.html

Any experiences with the SD15, Wide Angle Lenses and flare?

My 20-40mm lens flares a lot, but that is the lens. As I said I have not heard of the internal flare you see in the DP1/2/3

--

Lightwriting with Sigma

 

[mike earussi]

In the SD15 flare depends on the lens, not the camera. Here are some lens flare tests showing the differences:

http://www.lenstip.com/197.9-Lens_review-Sigma_10-20_mm_f_3.5_EX_DC_HSM_Ghosting_and_flares.html

http://www.lenstip.com/267.9-Lens_review-Sigma_10-20_mm_f_4-5.6_EX_DC_HSM_Ghosting_and_flares.html

http://www.lenstip.com/246.9-Lens_review-Sigma_8-16_mm_f_4.5-5.6_DC_HSM_Ghosting_and_flares.html

Both 10-20s have very little flare, the 8-16 has some, and the new 105mm macro is about as bad as you can get:

http://www.lenstip.com/318.9-Lens_r..._Macro_Ghosting__flares_and_transmission.html

 

[robertseymour]

Thanks for the advice.

It seems that the 10-20 models both have very good flare resistance. Its not that I often shoot into the sun directly on a bright day, but it occurred to me to ask as if I am going to shoot wider, then there is more chance of flare.

In terms of comparing the older to the newer sensors, I have found I have a much higher hit rate with the DP1X over the the DP3M, maybe I just find the DP3M a lot more challenging to work with.

I also rarely print, and the few I have from the DP1X have come out well enough on A2 for my use. So not sure I really need the higher resolution of the SD1M, although its at a good price. I would not go for a 'new' SD15 anyway, most likely a Sigma Refurb which I can get locally.

 

[Hardy Steiner]

Robert, in regards to flare, do you refer to the red patterns/grid that show up with the DP* cameras (I can see them in your sample pictures)? This is happening with the DP* cameras only, not with SD cameras.

 

[robertseymour]

Robert, in regards to flare, do you refer to the red patterns/grid that show up with the DP* cameras (I can see them in your sample pictures)? This is happening with the DP* cameras only, not with SD cameras.

 

[Hardy Steiner]

Yes, this red grid pattern bothered me as well since the first DP1. But somebody here on the forum pointed out that it's not only a problem with Sigma compact cameras, but with other brands as well.

The SD camera doesn't show this red pattern at all. For wide angle, you've got some good options: the 18-35mm 1.8 lens is highly regarded. I personally have the 20mm prime lens on the SD1 which serves me well (but could do with an update).

I think the SD1 Merrill camera is certainly a huge step up in terms of body and resolution in comparison to the SD15 and the current price (at least here in the UK) is very attractive (GBP 799).

 

[SandyF]

I use the SD15 as my main DSLR and have a fair number of photos online at flickr in the SD15 and recent travel sets. You might wish to look through them. As I recall, my Lake Tahoe wide shots SD15 are with my older 10-20mm which I've had since SD10 days. Nice lens, do have to watch the sun position a bit though. Takes a circ polarizer okay too, although you can get some variation in sky color that way. I'd be glad to answer any further questions.

As others have written, flare is a lens problem rather than a camera problem.

The SD15 isn't as forgiving of clipping highlights as the original DP cameras (I have original DP1 and DP2) or the SD14. I meter being very aware always of my highlights.

Color straight from the SD15 is usually really, really nice; I find it very natural and correct on landscapes in natural light. I don't shoot much indoors. My SD15 out-of-camera color is more natural than my SD14's output. I generally don't use the SD14 now. So even though the sensor is the same in the original DPs/SD14/SD15, there are significant differences in the 'look' of the output even before processing. I prefer SPP to any other RAW program I've used with X3F RAWs.

In fact, after using a SD1 last year, I personally opted to buy a SD15 as my main and Sigma DSLR instead of the SD1, since I have a Merrill camera (DP2Merrill). For Sigma users, I highly recommend having a Merrill sensor camera.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

 

[mike earussi]

I am currently a user of the DP1X and DP3M, a while back I was looking into a SD15 but I bought a DP3M instead.

I am once again looking at the SD15 after reviewing some recent photos comparing the older 4.75mp chip to the newer 14.7mp Merrill sensor.

I actually prefer the output of the older sensor, it seems to clip highlights better (less), lower noise and higher dynamic range. I also like the fact I can use it straight in Lightroom without having to use SPP.

Cheers, Rob

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/

I've used both with the SD15 and the SPP produces a more natural look than ACR which tends to be a little more contrasty. But I would suggest you do a comparison to see which you prefer.

 

[robertseymour]

Thanks again, it looks like a Refurb/Used SD15 might be the best option and see what happens with a SD 'Quattro' next year.

Used SD15s go for around £300 or I can get a UK refurb with 1yr warranty (same place I got my DP1X) for around £380. The SD1M is still £799.

I think the Sigma 10-20mm models might be the best option for me then, the 8-16mm looks good but adding filters looks bulky.

The only other option is back to a Pentax based camera (previously had a K-7), something like the K-01 (they go silly cheap now) and a DA15 could be a good combo as it will spend most of its time on a tripod. Alternatively I have seen some K5II go for not much more than the SD15 Refurb.

Cheers, Rob

 

[SandyF]

I've shot Pentax, although not those models... mainly K20... I gave it to our son-in-law. Personally I'd choose a SD15 any day. FWIW I bought mine directly from Sigma US/NY refurb, but frankly I think it was new. Does Sigma UK sell directly? Sigma US/NY website shows refurb price US$623 at present.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

 

[robertseymour]

I've shot Pentax, although not those models... mainly K20... I gave it to our son-in-law. Personally I'd choose a SD15 any day. FWIW I bought mine directly from Sigma US/NY refurb, but frankly I think it was new. Does Sigma UK sell directly? Sigma US/NY website shows refurb price US$623 at present.

Best regards, Sandy
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman (archival)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

The Sigma SD15 Refurb is though a local re-seller.

They are better value S/H as refurb its £380. I can get a S/H K-01 for ~£160 where as S/H SD15s are still around the £250+ mark.

 

[mike earussi]

FYI, the SD15 blows out highlights easier than the SD14 or the earlier DPs, so you have to expose for the highlights just like slide film. So it's always better to underexpose a bit and bring up the shadows using + fill.

 

[JLK]

The SD15 is my main camera, and I like it in many ways much better than the SD14 (unreliable shutter) or SD10 (battery challenges, sensor needed cleaning more). But the SD15 can be maddening with highlights, so you need to be very careful---chimp a lot, set up the blinking highlight review, and learn the camera so you know when to expect this issue.

I've had more than my share of photos ruined by this issue---it can be frustrating if you're not prepared to deal with it. And there's no way to save these in post. Other than that, it's a great camera (fast, good shutter, big buffer, etc).

If I were you, I might be tempted to ask about the SD1M to see what people think about that...

--
Jim

 

[mike earussi]

The SD15 is my main camera, and I like it in many ways much better than the SD14 (unreliable shutter) or SD10 (battery challenges, sensor needed cleaning more). But the SD15 can be maddening with highlights, so you need to be very careful---chimp a lot, set up the blinking highlight review, and learn the camera so you know when to expect this issue.

I've had more than my share of photos ruined by this issue---it can be frustrating if you're not prepared to deal with it. And there's no way to save these in post. Other than that, it's a great camera (fast, good shutter, big buffer, etc).

If I were you, I might be tempted to ask about the SD1M to see what people think about that...

 

[robertseymour]

Just bought some lenses off Hardy from this parish so SD15 it is!

The 20-40mm f2.8 EX and 28-70mm f2.8 EX should get me going, just need to find a SD15, a 10-20mm, then a 50mm f1.4 EX......

 

[Roland Karlsson]

As far as I know, that kind of distracting flare is very hard, (or even impossible?) to get with the SD cameras. I think the back of the lens has to be near to the sensor.

 

[robertseymour]

Well, SD15 and a few lenses arrived:

The SD15 with 18-125mm DC OS kit lens which I found at a local dealer (last one left) for £330 BNIB which I thought was good deal as new body only they are still £599.

The two Sigma lenses courtesy of Hardy of this parish:

And the two Sigma Behemoths compared to the dinky DP1X:

Initial impressions:

I really like the size of the SD15, the hand grip is just right and my little finger does not slip off like I had with my older K-7 which was nice and compact but I always felt it would be better 5-10mm higher so there was more support.

After a few test shots with both the Sigma DF lenses, they seem to over expose the image and require -0.7/-1 EV.

I am not 100% sure how much I will use the two big Sigma lenses, for their size a used DP2S might be a better option to cover the range between the DP1 and DP3M for my walkabout kit, and maybe keep the 20-40mm once I have got the 10-20mm wide angle for the SD15 as my 'Serious' kit.

Only thing now is to decide over which wide aperture prime, the 30mm f1.4 Art or older 50mm f1.4. I had the older non-Art 30mm f1.4 on my old KM 5D a few years back which was nice.

If I got the 30mm it would negate the need for 20-40mm I think:

Sigma 10-20mm ~17-34mm

Sigma DP1x (16.6mm) ~28mm

Sigma 20-40mm f2.8 ~33-68mm

Sigma DP2S (24mm) ~41mm

Sigma 30mm f1.4 ~51mm

Sigma 28mm-70mm f2.8 ~ 47mm-119mm

Sigma DP3M (50mm) ~75mm

Sigma 50mm f1.4 ~85mm

(And the 18-125mm f3.8-5.6 DC OS ~ 30mm-212mm)

It was such a great deal for the two DF lenses I wont sell them but its a lot of glass on the front of the SD15! I keep seeing pics of the SD15 with the 50mm f1.4 and it just looks right, of course its a perfect portrait lens on the 1.7 crop SD15 being ~85mm FOV.

Both the 30mm and 50mm together are not much bigger than the DF lenses on their own...

Its all fun isn't it!

--

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/

 

[Hardy Steiner]

You got yourself a very good deal on the SD15. In regards to the lenses, I can't comment on the 30mm one, but the 'old' 50mm 1.4 lens is a relatively compact lens (probably the smallest Sigma EX prime lens I ever owned). Alternatively, if you don't need the speed, the 50mm 2.8 macro is also not too big.

I always hoped that Sigma would create a 'slow' 2.8 prime wide angle lens, which would allow it to be smaller (most of the time I do not need the speed of a super fast f1.8 wide angle lens). BTW there is a 24mm 2.8 Sigma AF lens - old design - old AF, but if you don't mind that, it is a very small lens (If you are one day up to buying the SD1, then I would recommend avoiding this lens as you will see green corners with it - which shouldn't be the case on the SD15).

 

[robertseymour]

You got yourself a very good deal on the SD15. In regards to the lenses, I can't comment on the 30mm one, but the 'old' 50mm 1.4 lens is a relatively compact lens (probably the smallest Sigma EX prime lens I ever owned). Alternatively, if you don't need the speed, the 50mm 2.8 macro is also not too big.

I always hoped that Sigma would create a 'slow' 2.8 prime wide angle lens, which would allow it to be smaller (most of the time I do not need the speed of a super fast f1.8 wide angle lens). BTW there is a 24mm 2.8 Sigma AF lens - old design - old AF, but if you don't mind that, it is a very small lens (If you are one day up to buying the SD1, then I would recommend avoiding this lens as you will see green corners with it - which shouldn't be the case on the SD15).