Need help from Epson 820 users. Prints not right.

[Ken Yun]

I have found that my prints are quite a bit darker than the image when I view it on my monitor. The colors are also not the same (mostly the difference is just darker shades of the same color). This is the basic process I have been following:

1. Download photos from my Olympus C-3000 to my computer using the Olympus software.

2. Open the photo in Photoshop 7.0. When it is being opened to PS, it is converted from sRGB to the “working space”. I make whatever adjustments I need in PS.

3. I open the photo in Qimage. I made all the basic settings in Qimage’s Print Processing Panel and I set the ICC profile that is correct for my Epson Photo 820 printer. I also chose the profile for my monitor (that I created using Adobe Gamma).

4. I set the printer at the highest quality print and using the paper that matches the printer’s ICC profile set in step 3. I also chose “No Color Management” in the printer’s set up.

That’s it. I don’t understand why my prints look so different.

I am mainly using Epson Heavyweight Matt paper. I have also tried using the Epson Premium Photo paper cause I thought it would help with the brightness of the print because it is a brighter paper. It did not make a difference
In desperation in finding a solution, I tried some of these other things:

1. Tried using “ICM” in the printer software’s Color Management controls. No difference.
2. Set the printer mode to “Automatic” instead of “Custom”. No difference.

3. Tried printing from Photoshop instead of Qimage…in case I have something set wrong in Qimage. I used the Photoshop Color Management tutorial from the Computer Darkroom website ( http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_mac.htm ). No difference.

4. I considered that maybe something happened when the photo is converted from sRGB to the workspace in Photoshop when I do my touch-ups. I took the raw photo straight from the camera and downloaded it into the Olympus software to get it to my computer. I printed directly from the Olympus software without any touch-ups. No difference.

5. The only thing that seemed to make a difference is when I printed in “Automatic” mode and I used plain photocopy paper. The print was a lot lighter/brighter.

Some of the prints I make look good on their own (if you are just flipping through the prints). As soon as you compare it to the monitor, the prints look so much darker. What it almost looks like is if I took a piece of transparent cellophane that is tinted gray (actually, I’m not really sure what color it is really tinted as the colors on the print are a shade different but I can tell what shade. It makes the colors in the print looks slightly a dirty brownish or dirty greenish) and placed it over the monitor. That is what the prints look like. Colors look duller and whites look off-white. One other thought I had was that maybe it was my monitor and it was brighter than it should be. What I did to check if this could be the problem was to view the photos from the screen on my camera and compare it to what I see on my monitor. They were not that much different so that can’t be the problem either. I am using the Epson ink also so I am completely baffled why I am having this problem.

The only other thing I can think of, and it may have no bearing, is found in Start/Settings/Printers and Faxes/Epson Stylus Photo 820 series (I am using Windows XP). When I right-click this icon and choose Properties, it shows a toolbox called Epson Stylus Photo 820 Properties. The Color Management tab “These settings let you associate color profile(s) with your color printer…” It has a choice of “Automatic” or “Manual” (it is currently set to “Automatic”) and then there is a box under it with a heading that says “Color Profiles currently associated with this printer:”. Within the box, the only profile listed is “EE163_1” so I guess this is the one being used. I have never seen any documentation and I have never read and information that I have seen on forums that mention anything about changes or even accessing the printer’s Properties box. Do you know I need to do here? Maybe this is the problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[William Carson]

Hi Ken, I have the same situation in printing photos (S2) with a epson 1270. This is a similar printer to yours. The prints are much darker than when viewed on the monitor. What I have done is too open the image in photoshop and select the brightness - contrast controls and brighten the image by around 15% You may want to increase it by more. The other option is to adjust (calibrate) the brightness of your monitor so that it matches your printed output. Have you ever calibrated your monitor? Should be some instructions on that in the manual that came with your monitor.
Will

I have found that my prints are quite a bit darker than the image
when I view it on my monitor. The colors are also not the same
(mostly the difference is just darker shades of the same color).
This is the basic process I have been following:
1. Download photos from my Olympus C-3000 to my computer using the
Olympus software.
2. Open the photo in Photoshop 7.0. When it is being opened to PS,
it is converted from sRGB to the “working space”. I make whatever
adjustments I need in PS.
3. I open the photo in Qimage. I made all the basic settings in
Qimage’s Print Processing Panel and I set the ICC profile that is
correct for my Epson Photo 820 printer. I also chose the profile
for my monitor (that I created using Adobe Gamma).
4. I set the printer at the highest quality print and using the
paper that matches the printer’s ICC profile set in step 3. I also
chose “No Color Management” in the printer’s set up.

That’s it. I don’t understand why my prints look so different.

I am mainly using Epson Heavyweight Matt paper. I have also tried
using the Epson Premium Photo paper cause I thought it would help
with the brightness of the print because it is a brighter paper.
It did not make a difference
In desperation in finding a solution, I tried some of these other
things:
1. Tried using “ICM” in the printer software’s Color Management
controls. No difference.
2. Set the printer mode to “Automatic” instead of “Custom”. No
difference.
3. Tried printing from Photoshop instead of Qimage…in case I have
something set wrong in Qimage. I used the Photoshop Color
Management tutorial from the Computer Darkroom website
( http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_mac.htm ). No
difference.
4. I considered that maybe something happened when the photo is
converted from sRGB to the workspace in Photoshop when I do my
touch-ups. I took the raw photo straight from the camera and
downloaded it into the Olympus software to get it to my computer.
I printed directly from the Olympus software without any touch-ups.
No difference.
5. The only thing that seemed to make a difference is when I
printed in “Automatic” mode and I used plain photocopy paper. The
print was a lot lighter/brighter.

Some of the prints I make look good on their own (if you are just
flipping through the prints). As soon as you compare it to the
monitor, the prints look so much darker. What it almost looks like
is if I took a piece of transparent cellophane that is tinted gray
(actually, I’m not really sure what color it is really tinted as
the colors on the print are a shade different but I can tell what
shade. It makes the colors in the print looks slightly a dirty
brownish or dirty greenish) and placed it over the monitor. That
is what the prints look like. Colors look duller and whites look
off-white. One other thought I had was that maybe it was my
monitor and it was brighter than it should be. What I did to check
if this could be the problem was to view the photos from the screen
on my camera and compare it to what I see on my monitor. They were
not that much different so that can’t be the problem either. I am
using the Epson ink also so I am completely baffled why I am having
this problem.

The only other thing I can think of, and it may have no bearing, is
found in Start/Settings/Printers and Faxes/Epson Stylus Photo 820
series (I am using Windows XP). When I right-click this icon and
choose Properties, it shows a toolbox called Epson Stylus Photo 820
Properties. The Color Management tab “These settings let you
associate color profile(s) with your color printer…” It has a
choice of “Automatic” or “Manual” (it is currently set to
“Automatic”) and then there is a box under it with a heading that
says “Color Profiles currently associated with this printer:”.
Within the box, the only profile listed is “EE163_1” so I guess
this is the one being used. I have never seen any documentation
and I have never read and information that I have seen on forums
that mention anything about changes or even accessing the printer’s
Properties box. Do you know I need to do here? Maybe this is the
problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[Ken Yun]

Will,

Thanks for your input. Do you think that this is an inherent problem with some Epson printers? I've had this problem for some time. I am an amateur at this stuff so I have only calibrated my monitor with Adobe Gamma. It may not be the best method but at least I know my monitor shouldn't be too far off.

I know if must be a problem with my printer somehow because I compare the photo I see when I review it on my camera to the one on my monitor and they are pretty similar. It's just that my final prints look so dull and dark.

I almost always increase the brightness in Photoshop by using Levels. Are you suggesting to "over-brighten" by 15% to compensate for the dark printouts?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks.

Ken

Hi Ken, I have the same situation in printing photos (S2) with a
epson 1270. This is a similar printer to yours. The prints are much
darker than when viewed on the monitor. What I have done is too
open the image in photoshop and select the brightness - contrast
controls and brighten the image by around 15% You may want to
increase it by more. The other option is to adjust (calibrate) the
brightness of your monitor so that it matches your printed output.
Have you ever calibrated your monitor? Should be some instructions
on that in the manual that came with your monitor.
Will

 

[Corne26033]

This may be a useful site for you http://www.computer-darkroom.co.uk/

I used the article 'Colour management in Photoshop 5' to do the adobe gamma thing some time ago. Quote from the article:

'My recommendation is that the brightness should be adjusted so that the inner square is only just visible (as an aid I suggest that you squint when you make this adjustment). If the on screen image looks a shade dark after this stage donít be too concerned, it will be corrected during the gamma adjustment stage. In fact, I have found that unless the screen is dim (at this stage), then the likelihood of over dark prints is increased significantly, so be warned!'
(and the guy uses epsons also)

Hope this helps some
Regards

 

[Tricia]

I have found that my prints are quite a bit darker than the image
when I view it on my monitor. The colors are also not the same
(mostly the difference is just darker shades of the same color).
This is the basic process I have been following:
1. Download photos from my Olympus C-3000 to my computer using the
Olympus software.
2. Open the photo in Photoshop 7.0. When it is being opened to PS,
it is converted from sRGB to the “working space”. I make whatever
adjustments I need in PS.
3. I open the photo in Qimage. I made all the basic settings in
Qimage’s Print Processing Panel and I set the ICC profile that is
correct for my Epson Photo 820 printer. I also chose the profile
for my monitor (that I created using Adobe Gamma).

The color space that you used in PS - do you have the same one listed in Qimage under Color Management> Images (Input)?

On my computer, Adobe Gamma runs as part of the boot process. I disable the box for Monitor (output).

I also don't usually choose a Printer Profile because I use three different printer drivers, then use either ICM (2200) or Color Controls (870) in the printer drivers. With both my 870 and my 2200 (using either the 2200 or 2100 drivers) I get excellent matches to my monitor.

The above choices may help you get back to the basic settings. If you get a substantially better print using them, it will give you a starting point.

As someone else suggested, you might also want to check your Adobe Gamma settings. I know you're supposed to set them in a dark room and not be very close to the monitor.

--
Tricia
Minolta Dimage D7(UG), Epson 2200, PBase supporter

 

[William Carson]

Hi Ken, I have to admit my knowledge of these things not as through as the other folks. However, I think a simple adjustment in brightness may be all you need. Or a corresponding darkening of the monitor. As to why there is a discrepency between the monitor and printer, It may be a quirk in the epson. I've noticed some strange stuff( for instance, I can only choose a few of the paper types and successfully print out photos. Can't choose 'premium quality glossy paper'. I can use the selection of premium quality glossy Film. Can't choose 'plain paper' but can choose 360dpi inkjet paper. Matt paper selection freezes up the printer. Etc. . . and I just work around it. Like brightening the image in PS and choosing glossy film even though I am printing on matt or premium glossy paper. Bottom line is that it works. Sort of like an old chevy...
Will

Thanks for your input. Do you think that this is an inherent
problem with some Epson printers? I've had this problem for some
time. I am an amateur at this stuff so I have only calibrated my
monitor with Adobe Gamma. It may not be the best method but at
least I know my monitor shouldn't be too far off.

I know if must be a problem with my printer somehow because I
compare the photo I see when I review it on my camera to the one on
my monitor and they are pretty similar. It's just that my final
prints look so dull and dark.

I almost always increase the brightness in Photoshop by using
Levels. Are you suggesting to "over-brighten" by 15% to compensate
for the dark printouts?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks.

Ken

Hi Ken, I have the same situation in printing photos (S2) with a
epson 1270. This is a similar printer to yours. The prints are much
darker than when viewed on the monitor. What I have done is too
open the image in photoshop and select the brightness - contrast
controls and brighten the image by around 15% You may want to
increase it by more. The other option is to adjust (calibrate) the
brightness of your monitor so that it matches your printed output.
Have you ever calibrated your monitor? Should be some instructions
on that in the manual that came with your monitor.
Will

 

[William Carson]

Ken, In reading your post again, I think you said the photos were coming out dull as well as dark. That does sound like a profile issue. You might go to the epson site and download the drivers and profiles for the 820 and install them. That might help. Good luck, Will

Thanks for your input. Do you think that this is an inherent
problem with some Epson printers? I've had this problem for some
time. I am an amateur at this stuff so I have only calibrated my
monitor with Adobe Gamma. It may not be the best method but at
least I know my monitor shouldn't be too far off.

I know if must be a problem with my printer somehow because I
compare the photo I see when I review it on my camera to the one on
my monitor and they are pretty similar. It's just that my final
prints look so dull and dark.

I almost always increase the brightness in Photoshop by using
Levels. Are you suggesting to "over-brighten" by 15% to compensate
for the dark printouts?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks.

Ken

Hi Ken, I have the same situation in printing photos (S2) with a
epson 1270. This is a similar printer to yours. The prints are much
darker than when viewed on the monitor. What I have done is too
open the image in photoshop and select the brightness - contrast
controls and brighten the image by around 15% You may want to
increase it by more. The other option is to adjust (calibrate) the
brightness of your monitor so that it matches your printed output.
Have you ever calibrated your monitor? Should be some instructions
on that in the manual that came with your monitor.
Will

 

[Ken Yun]

Corne,

Fancy meeting you at this forum.

I followed the same article but for Photoshop 7. Maybe I will go through it again just to double-check. Thanks for mentioning it.

Ken

This may be a useful site for you http://www.computer-darkroom.co.uk/
I used the article 'Colour management in Photoshop 5' to do the
adobe gamma thing some time ago. Quote from the article:
'My recommendation is that the brightness should be adjusted so
that the inner square is only just visible (as an aid I suggest
that you squint when you make this adjustment). If the on screen
image looks a shade dark after this stage donít be too concerned,
it will be corrected during the gamma adjustment stage. In fact, I
have found that unless the screen is dim (at this stage), then the
likelihood of over dark prints is increased significantly, so be
warned!'
(and the guy uses epsons also)

Hope this helps some
Regards

--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[Ken Yun]

Will,

Gee, it sounds like you might have even bigger problems than I do It may be a quirk of Epson but I am surprised more people have not mentioned it. Thanks for your thoughts.

Ken

Thanks for your input. Do you think that this is an inherent
problem with some Epson printers? I've had this problem for some
time. I am an amateur at this stuff so I have only calibrated my
monitor with Adobe Gamma. It may not be the best method but at
least I know my monitor shouldn't be too far off.

I know if must be a problem with my printer somehow because I
compare the photo I see when I review it on my camera to the one on
my monitor and they are pretty similar. It's just that my final
prints look so dull and dark.

I almost always increase the brightness in Photoshop by using
Levels. Are you suggesting to "over-brighten" by 15% to compensate
for the dark printouts?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks.

Ken

Hi Ken, I have the same situation in printing photos (S2) with a
epson 1270. This is a similar printer to yours. The prints are much
darker than when viewed on the monitor. What I have done is too
open the image in photoshop and select the brightness - contrast
controls and brighten the image by around 15% You may want to
increase it by more. The other option is to adjust (calibrate) the
brightness of your monitor so that it matches your printed output.
Have you ever calibrated your monitor? Should be some instructions
on that in the manual that came with your monitor.
Will

--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[Ken Yun]

Will,

This is one of the first things that I did when I first got the printer. I would hate to see what it would look like without the profile.

Ken

Thanks for your input. Do you think that this is an inherent
problem with some Epson printers? I've had this problem for some
time. I am an amateur at this stuff so I have only calibrated my
monitor with Adobe Gamma. It may not be the best method but at
least I know my monitor shouldn't be too far off.

I know if must be a problem with my printer somehow because I
compare the photo I see when I review it on my camera to the one on
my monitor and they are pretty similar. It's just that my final
prints look so dull and dark.

I almost always increase the brightness in Photoshop by using
Levels. Are you suggesting to "over-brighten" by 15% to compensate
for the dark printouts?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks.

Ken

Hi Ken, I have the same situation in printing photos (S2) with a
epson 1270. This is a similar printer to yours. The prints are much
darker than when viewed on the monitor. What I have done is too
open the image in photoshop and select the brightness - contrast
controls and brighten the image by around 15% You may want to
increase it by more. The other option is to adjust (calibrate) the
brightness of your monitor so that it matches your printed output.
Have you ever calibrated your monitor? Should be some instructions
on that in the manual that came with your monitor.
Will

--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[Ken Yun]

Tricia,

Thanks for your input.

The color space that you used in PS - do you have the same one
listed in Qimage under Color Management> Images (Input)?

No. I am using the default one which is "C:\Program Files\Qimage\sRGB.icm". The one I am using in Photoshop (color settings/color spaces/RGB) is "Adobe RGB (1998)". Is this what I should use in Qimage's Images (Input)?

On my computer, Adobe Gamma runs as part of the boot process. I
disable the box for Monitor (output).

I don't understand what that means but I guess I will leave it alone.

I also don't usually choose a Printer Profile because I use three
different printer drivers, then use either ICM (2200) or Color
Controls (870) in the printer drivers. With both my 870 and my 2200
(using either the 2200 or 2100 drivers) I get excellent matches to
my monitor.

The above choices may help you get back to the basic settings. If
you get a substantially better print using them, it will give you a
starting point.

As someone else suggested, you might also want to check your Adobe
Gamma settings. I know you're supposed to set them in a dark room
and not be very close to the monitor.

Yes, I will calibrate it again.

Ken
--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[Steven Snyder]

You problem may be gunked up profiles for you monitor and / or printer. I am not sure, but Microsoft Word may not use the profiles. It's worth a try, just open a new document, go to insert, insert picture from a file.

Not sure what you can do to fix photoshop if word does print good.

I print from Paint shop pro 7 with no problems. I have Photoshop 7, and did have some luck printing on my 10000 after some messing with profiles, but find PSP7 easier. I have had 7 different Epson printers to print photos, and all printed super, right out of the box. My current ones are Epson 10000, 1270, and 980.

Steve

Thanks for your input.

The color space that you used in PS - do you have the same one
listed in Qimage under Color Management> Images (Input)?

No. I am using the default one which is "C:\Program
Files\Qimage\sRGB.icm". The one I am using in Photoshop (color
settings/color spaces/RGB) is "Adobe RGB (1998)". Is this what I
should use in Qimage's Images (Input)?

On my computer, Adobe Gamma runs as part of the boot process. I
disable the box for Monitor (output).

I don't understand what that means but I guess I will leave it alone.

I also don't usually choose a Printer Profile because I use three
different printer drivers, then use either ICM (2200) or Color
Controls (870) in the printer drivers. With both my 870 and my 2200
(using either the 2200 or 2100 drivers) I get excellent matches to
my monitor.

The above choices may help you get back to the basic settings. If
you get a substantially better print using them, it will give you a
starting point.

As someone else suggested, you might also want to check your Adobe
Gamma settings. I know you're supposed to set them in a dark room
and not be very close to the monitor.

Yes, I will calibrate it again.

Ken
--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

 

[Tricia]

Thanks for your input.

The color space that you used in PS - do you have the same one
listed in Qimage under Color Management> Images (Input)?

No. I am using the default one which is "C:\Program
Files\Qimage\sRGB.icm". The one I am using in Photoshop (color
settings/color spaces/RGB) is "Adobe RGB (1998)". Is this what I
should use in Qimage's Images (Input)?

You can put more than one file here - I have Minolta, Adobe RGB, and sRGB all listed. Try adding Adobe RGB also.

On my computer, Adobe Gamma runs as part of the boot process. I
disable the box for Monitor (output).

I don't understand what that means but I guess I will leave it alone.

It means that the majority of the time when people put a monitor profile in Qimage, they have problems with their prints.

When you boot up your computer, does your wallpaper brightness or intensity or color change during the bootup process? If so, that's Adobe Gamma kicking in. It is loaded before you ever get to Qimage, so you don't need to put it in there.

I also don't usually choose a Printer Profile because I use three
different printer drivers, then use either ICM (2200) or Color
Controls (870) in the printer drivers. With both my 870 and my 2200
(using either the 2200 or 2100 drivers) I get excellent matches to
my monitor.

The above choices may help you get back to the basic settings. If
you get a substantially better print using them, it will give you a
starting point.

As someone else suggested, you might also want to check your Adobe
Gamma settings. I know you're supposed to set them in a dark room
and not be very close to the monitor.

Yes, I will calibrate it again.

Ken
--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

--
Tricia
Minolta Dimage D7(UG), Epson 2200, PBase supporter

 

[Corne26033]

Corne,

Fancy meeting you at this forum.

I followed the same article but for Photoshop 7. Maybe I will go
through it again just to double-check. Thanks for mentioning it.

Ken

Looks like I'm following you around ;-)

Noticed too late you had already found the digital darkroom (oops). But I guess what the darkroom guy said about the brightness/contrast adjustment and dark prints might be helpful. Or not ;-)

Anyway, I see you're getting lots of help from the experts here . No doubt the problem will be sorted out now.
Regards

 

[Ken Yun]

Tricia,

I took your two hints. I have not printed anything yet but I will try it soon. Thanks again.

Ken

Thanks for your input.

The color space that you used in PS - do you have the same one
listed in Qimage under Color Management> Images (Input)?

No. I am using the default one which is "C:\Program
Files\Qimage\sRGB.icm". The one I am using in Photoshop (color
settings/color spaces/RGB) is "Adobe RGB (1998)". Is this what I
should use in Qimage's Images (Input)?

You can put more than one file here - I have Minolta, Adobe RGB,
and sRGB all listed. Try adding Adobe RGB also.

On my computer, Adobe Gamma runs as part of the boot process. I
disable the box for Monitor (output).

I don't understand what that means but I guess I will leave it alone.

It means that the majority of the time when people put a monitor
profile in Qimage, they have problems with their prints.

When you boot up your computer, does your wallpaper brightness or
intensity or color change during the bootup process? If so, that's
Adobe Gamma kicking in. It is loaded before you ever get to Qimage,
so you don't need to put it in there.

I also don't usually choose a Printer Profile because I use three
different printer drivers, then use either ICM (2200) or Color
Controls (870) in the printer drivers. With both my 870 and my 2200
(using either the 2200 or 2100 drivers) I get excellent matches to
my monitor.

The above choices may help you get back to the basic settings. If
you get a substantially better print using them, it will give you a
starting point.

As someone else suggested, you might also want to check your Adobe
Gamma settings. I know you're supposed to set them in a dark room
and not be very close to the monitor.

Yes, I will calibrate it again.

Ken
--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820

--
Tricia
Minolta Dimage D7(UG), Epson 2200, PBase supporter

--
Olympus C3000
Epson Photo 820