EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

Started Feb 8, 2014 | Discussions
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madzazulu Senior Member • Posts: 1,310
EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
14
Zensu11
Zensu11 Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

I've always thought the sensors in the OM-D series were all made by Sony. Guess I was wrong.

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Martin.au
Martin.au Forum Pro • Posts: 10,466
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

Now that's quite a surprise. I wonder if we now know the chip that will be in the GH4?

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s_grins
s_grins Forum Pro • Posts: 10,547
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
7

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

Wow!!!

For many forum activists this would be unbearable to admit this. Olympus has to be assembled with very best from Sony

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Camera in bag tends to stay in bag...

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FrankParis Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
5

s_grins wrote:

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

Wow!!!

Um, big deal.

For many forum activists this would be unbearable to admit this.

Um, doubtful. You must be a Panasonic fan boy or fan girl. I have an E-M1 and all I care about is performance.

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drj3 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,219
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
9

I am not sure why I should care about which company produced the sensor, the lenses and as well as many of the other components are often designed and produced by other companies . As long as I am satisfied with the performance of the product it really is not important.  Actually if it means that Olympus is not just tied to Sony for sensors, that would be a good thing, since Sony may not always produce the best sensor.

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drj3

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Gregm61 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,567
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
3

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

There you go. It's on the internet, so we all know it has to be true....

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pedroboe100
pedroboe100 Regular Member • Posts: 296
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

And you can buy a one page document for $5000?

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Gregm61 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,567
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
2

pedroboe100 wrote:

And you can buy a one page document for $5000?

Probably even includes a certificate of authenticity!

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"There's shadows in life, baby.." Jack Horner- Boogie Nights

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Fredrik Glckner Veteran Member • Posts: 3,375
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

I remember interviews with Panasonic engineers saying that they would not be using on sensor PDAF. But the EM-1 does. So this appears to not add up well.

http://m43photo.blogspot.com

exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 7,871
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
3

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

so it is this one... the same as in GH4 = http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds8/c3/IS00006AE.pdf

MN34230PL

that is a big surprise in fact... so Sony after all was not able to edge Panasonic out

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Fredrik Glckner Veteran Member • Posts: 3,375
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

The specifications say that it can do 1080p @ 60fps and 4k @ 30fps. So no chance of a high speed full HD video output from GH4.

Also, it says that the full scan can be done at 22.5 fps. This means that the electronic shutter readout speed is about twice that of the GH3. The GH3 has an electronic shutter readout speed of about 1/10s, leading to big rolling shutter effects:

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2013/03/gh3-electronic-shutter.html

exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 7,871
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
1

Fredrik Glckner wrote:

The specifications say that it can do 1080p @ 60fps and 4k @ 30fps. So no chance of a high speed full HD video output from GH4.

see carefully - that sensor (it might be a mod of it specifically for GH4 though - that is why it is "MN34230PL" and not simply "MN34230") can do "4k2k movie mode (30fps)"

also that sensor is 1.9 crop

Actual imaging area dimensions 17.6472 (H) mm x 13.3228 (V) mm (active pixel area) = 4656 (H) x 3518 (V)

and as "Number of effective pixels" = 4644 (H) x 3506 (V), we have :

((17.6472 * 13.3228) / (4656*3518)) * (4644*3506) = 233.7 mm^2

E-M1 has 4608 x 3456, so it is unfortunately does not reach 1.9 though, but rather 1.944 crop (228.6 mm^2)

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Dr_Jon Veteran Member • Posts: 3,392
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
1

What you're buying is a bunch of X-Rays and Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM) photographs of the chip, including cross-sections of the devices, so competitors can see what Panasonic did to make it.

"The Device Essentials deliverable for imaging devices comprises a one page summary of observed device metrics and salient features. The summary is supported by the following unannotated image folders: • Downstream product teardown • Package X-rays, die photograph, non-invasive optical photos of die features • SEM imaging of the pixel array delayered to the metal, transistor, and diffusion levels • Exploratory cross-section SEM imaging of the general pixel array and peripheral structures This deliverable provides basic competitive benchmarking information and enables cost-effective tracking of multiple competitors’ technology."

E.g. see the second picture here:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/16/new-ipad-using-same-camera-sensors-found-in-older-products/

...or this:
http://www.i-micronews.com/news/Sony-Backside-Illuminated-BSI-CMOS-Image-Sensor,3161.html

Here's another example of what they do:
http://chipworksrealchips.blogspot.co.uk/

BTW it's very interesting Panasonic did them a custom one with PDAF, I guess they much think very highly of their defocus technique to use it on the GH4 instead of PDAF. As I plan to get a GH4 then hopefully it's the business...

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exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 7,871
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
2

Dr_Jon wrote:

BTW it's very interesting Panasonic did them a custom one with PDAF

only Canon has PDAF that is really "in silicone", the rest are using just various tricks with CFA on top of the sensor

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exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 7,871
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

Fredrik Glckner wrote:

I remember interviews with Panasonic engineers saying that they would not be using on sensor PDAF. But the EM-1 does. So this appears to not add up well.

the same sensor can be supplied with different CFAs on top of it to accomplish the PDAF... so you are talking about camera engineers, not sensor engineers... Olympus paid for a different CFA (with some locations dedicated to PDAF use) on top of sensors for E-M1 and got what they paid for...

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cameron2 Senior Member • Posts: 2,667
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks

Zensu11 wrote:

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

I've always thought the sensors in the OM-D series were all made by Sony. Guess I was wrong.

Yup, that is an unexpected turn of events ..

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exdeejjjaaaa
exdeejjjaaaa Veteran Member • Posts: 7,871
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
2

cameron2 wrote:

Zensu11 wrote:

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

I've always thought the sensors in the OM-D series were all made by Sony. Guess I was wrong.

Yup, that is an unexpected turn of events ..

OM-D series != (only) E-M1... E-M5 might as well have Sony sensor...
https://chipworks.secure.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=SON-IMX109

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tt321 Senior Member • Posts: 7,674
Re: EM-1 uses Panasonic sensor per Chipworks
7

FrankParis wrote:

s_grins wrote:

madzazulu wrote:

http://chipworks.force.com/catalog/ProductDetails?sku=OLY-E-M1_Pri-Camera

Wow!!!

Um, big deal.

For many forum activists this would be unbearable to admit this.

Um, doubtful. You must be a Panasonic fan boy or fan girl. I have an E-M1 and all I care about is performance.

This surely is a joke? Otherwise your fanboy detector is set to too high a sensitivity.

The way the Sony sensor was embraced probably led to s_grins' remark.

However, the enthusiasm then was fully justified given that Olympus was perceived as being given second-rate old sensors by Panasonic up to that time, and the entrance of Sony represented good competition.

So logically those who enthusiastically greeted Sony should also enthusiastically greet this turn of events as this shows now valid competition with almost equal merits. The best possible situation. Sony has kicked Panasonic out of complacency, and Olympus gets to pick what they want on their own terms.

micksh6
micksh6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,613
Panasonic could be just subcontractor

All die markings say is that the sensor was manufactured at Panasonic fab. It might as well be designed by Sony and then they could outsource production to Panasonic.
Just like Panasonic produces flashes designed by Olympus or Foxconn produces iPhones designed by Apple.

If Panasonic had access to this sensor they would certainly have used PDAF for video in GH4, like Canon does in 70D. Instead, Panasonic had to develop their Depth-From-Defocus technology.
So, if this is Panasonic sensor why don't they use PDAF in GH4?

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