Wedding with A57 and A77

[compositor20]

This was our first paid wedding (we had paid christening and another training wedding before).

You can go here

www.artefoto7.com/raquelpedro

Done with Sony A57 and A77. It was mostly photographed by my wife, since I was doing the Video (only a few bride shots and at the sunset couple's session +- more or less half the shots are mine (+ all the exterior night shots are mine)), and she has an art & crafts degree.

Would like to have at least one Full Frame, but Sony doesn´t have a cheap option like Canon or Nikon (the main reason is to use Sigma 75-200 where 75 is a true 75 since on aps-c is a little bit long and at 300mm equiv., camera shake is sometimes a problem, but I really like this lens to blur the background). High iso natural life was a problem with the church shots (iso 3200 max with correct exposure is not enough).

Would a Ff make an aesthetical difference on those photos (colours,contrast,DR)?

We have made an extensive research/practice, but the there are many things that could only be learned on the field. So are those any good?

Lens used Tamron 17-50 2.8, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Sigma 75-200 2.8-3.5 - Flash Sony Fl-58AM used on the cerimony (yes it overheated, so I bought a Metz 52- Af-1 that is much more resilient to that problem). Used reflector on the couples sunset session, and softbox at night.

It was very stressing, and light at midday/noon wasn´t cooperating, so some had flash for fill but I didn´t like to use it... In this wedding I did some of pur the best bride and groom solo, church and couple shots from all the summer weddings (strangely since it was the first one...), however the guest shots were some of the weak we have done (its difficult when you can´t drag all bridal party to where you want it just because there is better light there). To have photojournalistic shots is difficult, specially if you don´t have a real 70-200 or a second body, and you know lighting isn´t cooperating so you get unmotivated.

All the post process was done in Capture One 7.

Which is the best photo on the gallery?

C and C welcome (about posing, framing and specially post-processing).

 

[JimmyMelbourne]

These are really excellent considering the equipment used, goes to show aps-c can really deliver in the right hands.

 

[Peter Albinger]

I'm impressed. some beautiful shots. You will have made the couple quite happy with their choice of photographers.

 

[mmhendrie]

I think a really excellent professional series. Well done.

 

[EvilOne]

Ill try to give a balanced critique... There are really some great shots in this group. there are also many over exposed and underexposed shots. For me, Wedding photographs should not be artsy. They should be perfectly exposed memories composed in such a way to get all you can out of the subjects in the frame. Art is art, but wedding photographs are all about the Bride and Groom and the ceremony. I don't like shots where there is a principle subject in the photograph and the head is partially chopped off. Taste in photography is about the taste of the viewer. Its very hard to get an honest critique from friend because no one wants to offend. Here in this form, from my point of view Honesty is very important, especially when the photographer is asking for critique. Honesty is very important because if everyone sugar coated their critique , the photographer asking for critique would be deprived of a chance for improvement. If the photographer knows that opinions here are just that, Opinions, there should be no hurt feelings. If you ask me what my opinion is, I going to be honest. That doesn't mean that IM an expert in the critique of wedding photographs. All I can do is give you what I see through my eyes.

Every wedding photograph is an opportunity to capture a once in a life time memory. In my opinion it should not be cloaked in trickery or artsy compositions. Maybe because I am old, my views on composition are very traditional when it comes to wedding photographs..

Bill aka EO

 

[Maxxuman]

Ill try to give a balanced critique... There are really some great shots in this group. there are also many over exposed and underexposed shots. For me, Wedding photographs should not be artsy. They should be perfectly exposed memories composed in such a way to get all you can out of the subjects in the frame. Art is art, but wedding photographs are all about the Bride and Groom and the ceremony. I don't like shots where there is a principle subject in the photograph and the head is partially chopped off. Taste in photography is about the taste of the viewer. Its very hard to get an honest critique from friend because no one wants to offend. Here in this form, from my point of view Honesty is very important, especially when the photographer is asking for critique. Honesty is very important because if everyone sugar coated their critique , the photographer asking for critique would be deprived of a chance for improvement. If the photographer knows that opinions here are just that, Opinions, there should be no hurt feelings. If you ask me what my opinion is, I going to be honest. That doesn't mean that IM an expert in the critique of wedding photographs. All I can do is give you what I see through my eyes.

Every wedding photograph is an opportunity to capture a once in a life time memory. In my opinion it should not be cloaked in trickery or artsy compositions. Maybe because I am old, my views on composition are very traditional when it comes to wedding photographs..

Bill aka EO

I respect you for giving your honest opinion Bill but I'd also respectfully disagree with it. I'm no expert either but in the last year I have looked at a lot of wedding photographer's portfolios and websites as well as attending and watching top wedding photographer's seminars and webinars.

I think it's a good set of wedding images that as others said should make the couple very happy with their choice of photographer. There are some very good shots in there and I don't see many over or underexposed shots. There are some where the highlights are blown in the background in order to expose for the subjects and that may have been avoided with expert use of flash. But I don't think most clients would have a problem with them as the photos have captured the important moments. Couples seem to increasingly value artistic wedding photos and the OP has provided a good range of them to choose from.

--
Barry

 

[EvilOne]

Barry the good thing about a forum like this is if we keep our opinion as just that , our opinion. and not try to force our opinion down anyone or everyone's throat, the Photographer can get some input that should be honest an unbiased.. For most of us, asking family or friends would not yield an honest critique but a sugar coated critique. Although I've taken many shot with a very shallow depth of field using f/1.7 and I find people ( family ) telling me, half the shot is out of focus. Some people in my family do not know what sugar coating is. So what does that say about people who know nothing about photography. I've been at this for 50 years, I even have a degree in it that is 33 years old. I always qualify any critique I give as not being from an expert's eye. The only advantage I offer is that in my 50 years of photography , some stuff has rubbed off on me. I respect everyone's opinion. I just have my own, and when I see a photograph, my gut tells me how I feel about a shot instantly, and I don't pixel peep.

I would not know photographic excellence if I fell over I,. but I know what I like, and in some cases I even know why I like it.

Bill aka EO

 

[dolbyscat]

Yes, I like that series of photo's though I must admit I am more of a "traditionalist" when it comes to wedding shoots. Hey, as long as the client was happy, and you got some input from them before-hand, Im sure they had already seen your work, and based their decision on that.

 

[EvilOne]

Some shots I do not like, heads cut off is very unappealing to me. IN school we learned to fill the frame but do Not cut off heads or body parts that distract from proper composition. Most of these shot could have been improved with a step back, and a slight change in composition. This is 2014, there is not as much emphasis on filling the frame as it once was.. Modern thinking is if you cut off part of the head, you cant put it back, but if you have too much background you can always crop it.

#7, #11, #16, #28, #29, #38, #42, #50, #53, #55, #56, #69, #84, #85, #120, #131, #137, #151, #153, #156, #158, #178, #179,

With respect for the Photographer, the shots that I pointed out above look very amateurish to me. Everyone of these shot would be improved if the composition included the full head with a slight background about the heads.

IM not going to critique every shot,. there are also some where arms are cut out of the frame, that would look better with a step back like this one, but there are a few others where principle body parts are cut off.

# 35

The Brides left arm goes out of frame and then returns.... A better composition again would have been a step back and include the whole left arm.

#36

Part of the right shoulder is out of frame... a step back would have composed the shot perfectly.



There are some shots that have blown highlights. Overexposed

#13, #14, 118, #128



Out of 191 shots. 150+ are very worthy shots. Again this is just my time consuming opinion.

To say everyone of this shots are worthy does the photographer no service unless you want to stroke his/her ego. If you want to offer an honest opinion,, Make sure you give it. Point out what you feel could be improved in the hope that the OP understands its just an opinion.

Good luck and keep shooting. If anyone wants a honest opinion, they can get one from me and I promise it wont be sugar coated. If I like something, you can be sure I like it.

Bill aka EO

 

[Maxxuman]

Barry the good thing about a forum like this is if we keep our opinion as just that , our opinion. and not try to force our opinion down anyone or everyone's throat, the Photographer can get some input that should be honest an unbiased.. For most of us, asking family or friends would not yield an honest critique but a sugar coated critique. Although I've taken many shot with a very shallow depth of field using f/1.7 and I find people ( family ) telling me, half the shot is out of focus. Some people in my family do not know what sugar coating is. So what does that say about people who know nothing about photography. I've been at this for 50 years, I even have a degree in it that is 33 years old. I always qualify any critique I give as not being from an expert's eye. The only advantage I offer is that in my 50 years of photography , some stuff has rubbed off on me. I respect everyone's opinion. I just have my own, and when I see a photograph, my gut tells me how I feel about a shot instantly, and I don't pixel peep.

I would not know photographic excellence if I fell over I,. but I know what I like, and in some cases I even know why I like it.

Bill aka EO

Agreed - there's no reason differing opinions should lead to arguments on subjects which are in any case subjective.

 

[JimmyMelbourne]

Some shots I do not like, heads cut off is very unappealing to me. IN school we learned to fill the frame but do Not cut off heads or body parts that distract from proper composition. Most of these shot could have been improved with a step back, and a slight change in composition. This is 2014, there is not as much emphasis on filling the frame as it once was.. Modern thinking is if you cut off part of the head, you cant put it back, but if you have too much background you can always crop it.

#7, #11, #16, #28, #29, #38, #42, #50, #53, #55, #56, #69, #84, #85, #120, #131, #137, #151, #153, #156, #158, #178, #179,

For me I like the tight crop of many of these shots, I also like to do tight cropping of peoples faces for single portraits so I think this can be subjective. I agree that heads should not be cut off in situations such as group shots etc but single portraits can benefit from tight cropping depending on the expression and situation.

With respect for the Photographer, the shots that I pointed out above look very amateurish to me. Everyone of these shot would be improved if the composition included the full head with a slight background about the heads.

IM not going to critique every shot,. there are also some where arms are cut out of the frame, that would look better with a step back like this one, but there are a few others where principle body parts are cut off.

# 35

The Brides left arm goes out of frame and then returns.... A better composition again would have been a step back and include the whole left arm.

I agree with this but I didnt really notice it. It did not stand out as a big issue.

#36

Part of the right shoulder is out of frame... a step back would have composed the shot perfectly.

Looking at it again yes it could be a little distracting but again I did not notice it on first view, so do not feel it was overly distracting. In this case composition could be a little cleaner.

There are some shots that have blown highlights. Overexposed

#13, #14, 118, #128

To me these were over exposed intentionally, to highlight the mans face and also colour against white in background. I do not mind the effect, but correct it does break conventional rules. In some cases rules are there to be bent or broken for artistic licence. I can see why it is not to your taste though.

Out of 191 shots. 150+ are very worthy shots. Again this is just my time consuming opinion.

To say everyone of this shots are worthy does the photographer no service unless you want to stroke his/her ego. If you want to offer an honest opinion,, Make sure you give it. Point out what you feel could be improved in the hope that the OP understands its just an opinion.

Good luck and keep shooting. If anyone wants a honest opinion, they can get one from me and I promise it wont be sugar coated. If I like something, you can be sure I like it.

Bill aka EO

I would be interested in knowing how the bride and groom found the photos.

 

[brian14478]

I think they look good, many very good.

Always be aware of the background...the bride sitting on the bench for instance, if you had just rotated the bench the truck in the background wouldn't be in the shot or if you had moved your position.

Also get a bit more 'personal'-try to elicit a response whether cracking a joke or or mentioning/asking them how they met. As you ask them or tell a joke ect. do so while getting ready to capture the shot(looking through the evf). You can see the expressions unfold at times/genuine and priceless.

The 75-200 sigma can be an excellent lens for wedding photography. It can run with the best 70-200's made today just not 2.8 at 200 or as quiet. Here are a few with the sigma 75-200 2.8/3.5.





































For the outdoor posed candids use the focal length when possible. People will loosen up in their expressions and you can tell they are more comfortable at a distance from the camera. I find 100-175 the best for the sigma / portraits giving distance and great bokeh 2.8/3.2

Work a bit more in post along the way also,trying varying techniques .The very nice unplanned candid shots are always highly cherished also-so be prepared for the unknown gem.

Work on compostion a bit more and let your knowledge/eye/equipment show the difference between your images and the snapshots. Try not as bill mentioned be over-arsty as much to show a professionalism.

Nice job. Thanks for sharing-brian

 

[tbcass]

These are really excellent considering the equipment used, goes to show aps-c can really deliver in the right hands.

Nothing wrong with the equipment. The photographer makes all the difference.

 

[tbcass]

Ill try to give a balanced critique... There are really some great shots in this group. there are also many over exposed and underexposed shots. For me, Wedding photographs should not be artsy. They should be perfectly exposed memories composed in such a way to get all you can out of the subjects in the frame. Art is art, but wedding photographs are all about the Bride and Groom and the ceremony. I don't like shots where there is a principle subject in the photograph and the head is partially chopped off. Taste in photography is about the taste of the viewer. Its very hard to get an honest critique from friend because no one wants to offend. Here in this form, from my point of view Honesty is very important, especially when the photographer is asking for critique. Honesty is very important because if everyone sugar coated their critique , the photographer asking for critique would be deprived of a chance for improvement. If the photographer knows that opinions here are just that, Opinions, there should be no hurt feelings. If you ask me what my opinion is, I going to be honest. That doesn't mean that IM an expert in the critique of wedding photographs. All I can do is give you what I see through my eyes.

Every wedding photograph is an opportunity to capture a once in a life time memory. In my opinion it should not be cloaked in trickery or artsy compositions. Maybe because I am old, my views on composition are very traditional when it comes to wedding photographs..

Bill aka EO

I understand where you're coming from but people these days like the type of photos presented here, including chopping the top of the head off. That used to be a no-no but it's excepted practice now. In the end you have to give the customer what they want, not what you like.

 

[compositor20]

Thanks for all the comments.

To give an answer to the questions.

- Yes they liked the photos very much (by the way there was a christening there too, so it was very stressfull to photograph both a wedding and a christening in the same day)

- Some of the appointed shots for being badly cropped I agree with most of them, and it was an helpfull reply since it was very direct to the point. What intrigued me was that you didn´t point some of them like number 5 or number 38(that one you pointed, but I don´t find it lacking)... which IMHO are good photos and they have the head chopped, so I almost created a new rule: don´t cut the head unless the subject is looking down and the eyes are in the upper thirds (although some break this rule and quite work, if they have negative space to look). For instance photo 29 breaks both of these assumptions and the photo would be better if cropped differently. In some of those the shoulders are cropped (in grooms case) and it doesn't seem to bother.. it may have other qualitys in the photo that make us liking them and that's what I would like to find out: the reasons some work even with flaws, and others don't work because of those flaws.

- Those were cuted for 3 main reasons: 1- to hide grooms bald head or make their foreheads appear longer, 2- To have a more in their face cut, or just a different cut so that not all of them are equal and tradicional (some were cropped in PP but most on location) 3 - Because of time constraints, that may made us take a picture because we liked something about the composition, expression, or lighting, and were a little fast in searching all the corners/details (but we know composition is very important and always look for different and artsy, while still pleasing, but its very hard work here, and not all of them are a success).

- The overexposure in the first 2 was on purpose (I believe they were even lifted 1 stop) so that I could make the wall standout and his face too (a LED light would create an hotspot on him sice he was close to the wall). And in the other.. fill flash would result in the direct flash look (you can´t underexpose a scene 2 or 3 stops to rescue the brightest highlights and not want the direct flash as the main source of ligh. bouncing on the roof could have made it work, but I didn´t remember it at the time, and I was video, and I expose for the face and let other things fall where they should (unles Im using reflectors or softbox).

- Its also my favorite lens the sigma 75-200, I have 2 and they are both good but one is much warmer then the other nd has better contrast, and both are sharp wide open... I would like to know if someone has one used in FF and used and how are the corners and if it needs micro-adjustment or not (mine needs -5 at the long end but then only at f4 is the short end sharp (and borderless so).

By the way we are a low-cost company, and considering the pressure of the day (we had to produce an album for the christening too, not only for the wedding) I think they were good (they were the best of the year probably (the reason some people liked them was the poses/expressions, and the light).

- Post processing colors is very difficult, I like the bleach bypass for glamour bridal shot (there are many in the gallery that have the effect), but normal photos alwasy look a little bland, I think its the contrast that is not high enough (when I dial in CO7 the contrast sometimes it starts to look artificial.. I know it might be the lens having a little bit of flare and low contrast.. but we are low cost and can´t buy zeiss or Sony lenses). Copper black and white on CO7 and HDR B and W is fantastic too.

Thank you again.

 

[EvilOne]

The OP asked for critique and opinion. Im not going to defend what I like, and IM cetainly not going to lie. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

This is where these type of threads go south. When someone tries to tell me or someone other than the OP what I should like because that is what they like.

If I saw these photographs and was looking for a photographer , I certainly would not choose this one.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. This photographer's shots are his first real wedding, Do you really think he has the experience or expertise that a veteran professional with 10 or 20 years of wedding under his belt has? I would not expect him too. Would someone pay this photographer the 2500/3500 dollars a real wedding photo/video professional would get? I only tried to help him.

I didn't ask for any critique of what I like. Any ramming of opinion should be pointed at the OP not to someone spending so much time to explain and enumerate the reasons why I do not like a group of shots. I didn't see anyone else do that. And because no one else had anything negative or passive to say, then everyone here but me must think these shots are wonderful.... I tried to offer some help. I also qualified my help.

Blown highlights are not good photographs. If someone defends poor composition and very standard photographic protocol, then any one who takes any shot from any perspective including motion blur, its ok, because its what they do today, or its artsy. When a Photograph leaves me wanting more, the photograph is a failure through my eyes. Lets just throw the book on great photography out the door and in its place on the shelf , put a five pound bag of sugar.

Does anyone really think these are a priceless shots? Every wedding photograph should be priceless.

http://www.artefoto7.com/raquelpedro/e3e54bfa3

Or has shooting into the sun somehow become acceptable?

http://www.artefoto7.com/raquelpedro/e24330703

Overexposed

http://www.artefoto7.com/raquelpedro/e235b318c

 

[brian14478]

One copy i have is very sharp throughout open...the other is just a touch softer open after 135mm-maybe a half stop with a slightly warmer color.

Is the lens needing any adjustment with your a57???They have different focus mechanism/plane, I have had three totally and none were any different really in focus on my a65. No adjustments needed with just one being a bit softer open on the long end which micro adjust couldn't have helped with regardless.

I am not sure of anyone using one with a full-frame and am curious myself. If i find anything i will let you know. Thank you-brian

with a65

 

[brian14478]

These are i think all with the 75-200...angel is over at dyxum i think still. You could probably ask him through flckr as he has done film shooting with his also. He now uses an nex5 and was shooting with an a100. Shows f1 for exif so i presume he is still manual focussing his.

Quite the lens..for doubters have a look-thank you-brian

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www.flickr.com

 

[JimmyMelbourne]

Hi Bill

Your advice is certainly valid and it assists all of us in understanding pure classic photography versus artistic licence and also the borderline where bad practice can creep in. In some instances it can be a fine line. Your post is a reminder of what is needed to shoot classically, i.e. correct portrait composition, accurate exposure.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts I found it a good reminder and valuable.

James

 

[JimmyMelbourne]

These are really excellent considering the equipment used, goes to show aps-c can really deliver in the right hands.

Nothing wrong with the equipment. The photographer makes all the difference.