LED "flashes" and moving objects indoors

[MarcelLuettmann]

I'm in the market for a new phone. Just like so many others.

Currently I own a Nokia N8. The next phone has to be at least as good, camera-wise.

There are many aspects to discuss when choosing the next phone, but here, I only want to talk about the camera.

My brother recently got a Sony Z1. With that Honami camera - 1/2,33" - I expected some performance. Still in mind that the single pixel can't be perfect if there are 20 millions of them on that sensor. But still, even if slightly smaller than the N8's sensor, looking at the whole image, it should be ok. Family sitting on the table, I aimed at my father-in-law, some 5 feet away. Z1 in my left hand, N8 in my right hand. For a decent portrait, I zoomed in, both for the same framing.

My father-in-law didn't move that much, just bent forward, reaching for his glass.

The Z1 gave me two completely misfocused shots and one blurred-by-his-movement shot, but with a reasonable focus. Used to my N8, I was surprised that it took three shots to get one shot in focus. The N8 is more like missing focus once in five shots in a situation like that. And I was surprised about the uselessness of LED flashes for people photography. And about the impact of zooming on the image quality - I hardly hesitate to use the zoom on my N8, because the IQ usually still is good enough for snapshots.

The N8 delivered in the first try. Well, it focused on the flower next to him, but still, miles ahead a up-to-date big-sensor-top-class-phone. The Xenon flash freezed any movement, just as I expected.

We've got two kids, aged 2 and 5.

I handed both phones over to my wife, both showing the "keeper" fully zoomed out. She owns a HTC Explorer (a.k.a. HTC Pico) and is looking for a new phone, too - with more internal memory and any kind of flash for the camera. Her HTC lacks both. Looking at the results, she asked me if a LED flash is of any use when taking photos of our kids.

I didn't have an answer for her.

But I checked an online price watch site, asking it for phones with Xenon flash. Samsung S4 zoom, Nokia 1020, Nokia 808, Nokia N8 - anything else was older.

Is a LED flash useless for snapping kids?

Marcel

 

[bigley Ling]

LED flash is not totally useless for snapping kids. One just has to enable manual settings and set the ISO higher in combination with using the LED flash. If this is possible on the smartphone, the shutter speeds should be fast enough to freeze motion. The only side effect of pushing up the ISO sensitivity is the overall quality of the image will be less.

 

[Pete4]

If you want good flash, then xenon equipped Nokia, like 1020 is probably best bet and most similar to what you have now. Led flashes are for short distance only and only few phones have xenon due to larger size and photo capability being farther down in priority. Personally I use DSLR or digital camera for flash, phone is more for outdoor full light photography. Also Xenon can't be used as video light, where LED can, so they're less flexible, therefore less popular. I think Samsung has something based on Android, which is camera first, phone/tablet second, but rather expensive.

 

[MarcelLuettmann]

LED flash is not totally useless for snapping kids. One just has to enable manual settings and set the ISO higher in combination with using the LED flash. If this is possible on the smartphone, the shutter speeds should be fast enough to freeze motion. The only side effect of pushing up the ISO sensitivity is the overall quality of the image will be less.

The N8 chose 1/33 s and ISO 500, which is ok for a snapshot on that 1/1.8" camera. And the background on the N8 image is more than one stop darker than on the Z1 image. So the Z1 must have set the ISO even higher, somewhere in the 4-digit-range. Pushing the ISO even further would hardly be possible.

Hm.

 

[MarcelLuettmann]

If you want good flash, then xenon equipped Nokia, like 1020 is probably best bet and most similar to what you have now. Led flashes are for short distance only and only few phones have xenon due to larger size and photo capability being farther down in priority. Personally I use DSLR or digital camera for flash, phone is more for outdoor full light photography. Also Xenon can't be used as video light, where LED can, so they're less flexible, therefore less popular. I think Samsung has something based on Android, which is camera first, phone/tablet second, but rather expensive.

The Nokia 1020 is the only option for me - the Samsung S4 zoom doesn't fit my trousers' pocket, and any other phone with a xenon flash comes with an outdated OS: Nokia 808 and N8 with Symbian, HTC Mozart 7 with WP7, Motorola Milestone with Android 2.1...

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I checked that 1020 in a store yesterday (Saturn in Münster). It was secured by a wire. The guy selling those Nokia phones there handed me his own 1020, saying: "Drop it. You wouldn't be the first customer doing this." That was impressive.

I prefer using a DSLR with a bounced flash, too. But there are situations that are gone within seconds. With a 2yo, many of them. Too long to get the DSLR with a flash running. And in these situations, 1/100 is a very long exposure time.

The 1020 sports a xenon AND a LED.

 

[vlad0]

The 808 has by far the best flash put on a smartphone thus far.

 

[Stevan G]

If you want good flash, then xenon equipped Nokia, like 1020 is probably best bet and most similar to what you have now. Led flashes are for short distance only and only few phones have xenon due to larger size and photo capability being farther down in priority. Personally I use DSLR or digital camera for flash, phone is more for outdoor full light photography. Also Xenon can't be used as video light, where LED can, so they're less flexible, therefore less popular. I think Samsung has something based on Android, which is camera first, phone/tablet second, but rather expensive.

The Nokia 1020 is the only option for me - the Samsung S4 zoom doesn't fit my trousers' pocket, and any other phone with a xenon flash comes with an outdated OS: Nokia 808 and N8 with Symbian, HTC Mozart 7 with WP7, Motorola Milestone with Android 2.1

if you have the chance to try 808 don't hesitate and ask yourself twice do you really need an up-to-date OS on your cameraphone, especially since you can buy a very cheap Android tablet with a lot better ecosystem than WP is on 1020

 

[MarcelLuettmann]

if you have the chance to try 808 don't hesitate and ask yourself twice do you really need an up-to-date OS on your cameraphone, especially since you can buy a very cheap Android tablet with a lot better ecosystem than WP is on 1020

I did ask myself twice or even more often. I know that the 808 has got the best camera ever put into a mobile phone. But still, I'd get the 1020. Because of my personal preferences about apps, future apps, Here, screen resolution, phone size etc.

We've got an Android tablet. It just doesn't fit in my trousers' pocket.

I'm just asking myself: Will I get a phone with xenon (then I'll get a 1020), or an Android phone with LED flash? Right now, I prefer the xenon.

 

[MarcelLuettmann]

Meanwhile, I got a new phone.

A Nokia Lumia 1020.

And I am really glad that I got that one instead of a 808. Compared to Symbian Belle, Windows Phone offers so much more! And the 1020 offers optical image stabilisation. So by now, I took a shot of the sky, showing seven stars of Orion in the 5MP file. Handheld.

Even with the 808's camera being slightly better, I am sure I got the perfect phone for my needs.