Cameralabs A7R Review

[Richard Ettinger]

My biggest issue concerns autofocus. The A7r's contrast-based AF system is fairly leisurely under good light and quite lethargic in dim conditions. Shoot in very low light or with a small AF area under challenging conditions and it may not even lock-on at all. It's noticeably inferior to the speed and confidence of the contrast-based AF system on modern Micro Four Thirds cameras, albeit roughly similar to the Live View AF on full-frame DSLRs.

Really people. Autofocus is for amateurs. I much prefer manual focus. It's how I learned back in the old free america.

When I got my first camera with auto focus, I didn't really know how to use it. The steps one has to go thru to get good focus in an AF or MF situation are about equal.

I do use AF lenses when I'm shooting rapidly moving subjects. Otherwise its manual focus for me.

 

[rukia]

Did manual focus give you any issues when shooting subjects from your horse buggy ? I imagine with one hand on the horse whip you had to zone focus.

Really people. Autofocus is for amateurs. I much prefer manual focus. It's how I learned back in the old free america.

 

[dmanthree]

The issue of fast AF is not only needed for sports and action. If you are a street photographer, or have kids, or shoot anything that requires fast focusing (not continuous AF), then LV focus like in dslrs is just a total pain in the neck and would make you miss lots of opps. Is that true? Is it that the A7r or A7 AF is slow when shooting in relatively low light or with poor contrast (like the typical indoor family gathering) like LV AF of dslrs?? If so, it's not a very useful camera for most people. Very plain and simple.

Well said, and it's one of the reasons I like my GH3 so much. The AF for most uses is quick, although the continuous AF isn't up to DSLR standards. But still useful. If the a7r is a slow as Cameralabs says, it's useless for me. Which is a shame.

 

[SQLGuy]

The issue of fast AF is not only needed for sports and action. If you are a street photographer, or have kids, or shoot anything that requires fast focusing (not continuous AF), then LV focus like in dslrs is just a total pain in the neck and would make you miss lots of opps. Is that true? Is it that the A7r or A7 AF is slow when shooting in relatively low light or with poor contrast (like the typical indoor family gathering) like LV AF of dslrs?? If so, it's not a very useful camera for most people. Very plain and simple.

 

[jl_smith]

Where he is wrong:

- I find disabling the shutter half/button press for autofocus and enabling the back button autofocus is far superior for autofocus than using a touchscreen. How do you even use a touchscreen while you are using the EVF for autofocus?

Sorry but I think the touchscreen is a heck of a lot faster and frankly more awesome-er.

How do you do it? Depends on the model of camera you're working with.

On the Olympus cameras, first you have auto-switching enabled, so that when you take your eye away from the EVF, the LCD activates. Afterwards, you can simply remove your eye from the EVF momentarily to look at the LCD, touch the screen for the AF point you want, then look back in the EVF (or use the rear LCD, whatever). It's *much faster* than it sounds and works awesomely (I shot a wedding this way).

Now on some Panasonic models, they do even one better - you can enable a mode so that /while using the EVF/, you can move your finger around the LCD and it moves the AF point in the EVF. Freaking awesome is what it is.

 

[steelhead3]

You canikons are using a LV from the middle ages; when you the LCD on a SLT, your focus speed and everything is the same as the evf, on the 77 12 fps with full AF.

 

[tjuster1]

Did manual focus give you any issues when shooting subjects from your horse buggy ? I imagine with one hand on the horse whip you had to zone focus.

Really people. Autofocus is for amateurs. I much prefer manual focus. It's how I learned back in the old free america.

LOL great response.

I was figuring that post was sarcastic, but upon consideration I'm not so sure . . . .

 

[Sean_Jayhawk]

You canikons are using a LV from the middle ages; when you the LCD on a SLT, your focus speed and everything is the same as the evf, on the 77 12 fps with full AF.

Um, that's what I am saying about the Canon and Nikon FF cameras I've owned. I get the sense you didn't read what I've been saying.

 

[GaryW]

...

One reason Sony will still be shipping new A-mount cameras next year is that SLT/SLR with dedicated PDAF sensors is still better than on-sensor AF for high speed and tracking. Pick the right tools for the job. If you want to shoot sports, don't get a Leica, don't get a mirrorless - get an A99 or a 6D or a 5DIII or a D4, and deal with the body size... the lenses for action sports aren't going to be small, regardless.

no, thank you, for lugging around mill-stones around my neck I'm still extremely happy with the grace a 4-years old 7d plays this role !!

It's one thing if most of what you do is attend nighttime sports events, but if this is just occasional, I don't want to have to drag a boat anchor around with me the rest of the time. I'd rather not drag around a 7D either!

For my most recent sports event, I mostly used the 16-50, on my Nex-6. I probably could have done better if I worked at it, but the PDAF actually did a pretty good job, except for "sports" mode. At first, it didn't seem to focus on anything -- weird -- and then it got some good shots, but I wasn't sure about it, so I put it back to normal! OH well. Anyway, the camera seemed to cope OK with focusing on moving people. The photographer could have done a bit better with the settings, as my shutter was a bit slow for that much action.

jpr2

 

[jkspepper]

- I find disabling the shutter half/button press for autofocus and enabling the back button autofocus is far superior for autofocus than using a touchscreen. How do you even use a touchscreen while you are using the EVF for autofocus?

I lean toward manual focus, and I wish the A7/A7r had a touch screen, so that I could more easily indicate where I want to zoom in.

focus and re-compose - if it works for the pros it'll work for everyone else.

 

[jkspepper]

Did manual focus give you any issues when shooting subjects from your horse buggy ? I imagine with one hand on the horse whip you had to zone focus.

Really people. Autofocus is for amateurs. I much prefer manual focus. It's how I learned back in the old free america.

Why would you even contemplate shooting from the back of a horse buggy? Shooting is stop, compose, steady, click = all the sharp photos of your ranch you would ever need.

If you want to be shooting shots, whilst riding horseback, jumping onto that steam train and shooting them injians in the process, perhaps you need to reevaluate why you would be needing a $$$ camera for that - because that's NOT what they're designed for. Buy a P'n'S instead.

 

[jpr2]

If you want to be shooting shots, whilst riding horseback, jumping onto that steam train and shooting them injians in the process, perhaps you need to reevaluate why you would be needing a $$$ camera for that - because that's NOT what they're designed for. Buy a P'n'S instead.

a truly ridiculous notions that a bit higher $$$ automatically means one can't try anything a little more ambitious ???

jpr2

--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~

 

[jkspepper]

If you want to be shooting shots, whilst riding horseback, jumping onto that steam train and shooting them injians in the process, perhaps you need to reevaluate why you would be needing a $$$ camera for that - because that's NOT what they're designed for. Buy a P'n'S instead.

a truly ridiculous notions that a bit higher $$$ automatically means one can't try anything a little more ambitious ???

jpr2

--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~

Turn that on it's head, what is ridiculous is just because you spend $$$ doesn't mean it can do your laundry.

By your logic, because you spent $$$$$ on a Phase One - you should be able to take pics of your kids riding a horse whilst you tuck-and-roll out the back of a moving vehicle.

Cameras are tools. Different tools doe different jobs. Paying $$$ more for the wrong tool will not necessarily equal better performance.

I'm not saying that people cant use the A7R in any situation, because I think it can I will be getting one. But for those that can only complain at why it can't have IBIS, why they can't take non-blurry photos, why can't the AF be as good as their DSLRs, it's a reminder to consider what the A7R is - a 1st generation feat of engineering that puts a D800E sensor into a E-M1 body. It has it's pros and it has its cons. Whether you can live with it is up to you but to slate it as crap because it can''t take photos of your kids running around in candle light it really doing the camera a disservice.

--
http://jkspepper.tumblr.com

 

[jpr2]

If you want to be shooting shots, whilst riding horseback, jumping onto that steam train and shooting them injians in the process, perhaps you need to reevaluate why you would be needing a $$$ camera for that - because that's NOT what they're designed for. Buy a P'n'S instead.

a truly ridiculous notions that a bit higher $$$ automatically means one can't try anything a little more ambitious ???

Turn that on it's head, what is ridiculous is just because you spend $$$ doesn't mean it can do your laundry.

By your logic, because you spent $$$$$ on a Phase One - you should be able to take pics of your kids riding a horse whilst you tuck-and-roll out the back of a moving vehicle.

Cameras are tools. Different tools doe different jobs. Paying $$$ more for the wrong tool will not necessarily equal better performance.

I'm not saying that people cant use the A7R in any situation, because I think it can I will be getting one. But for those that can only complain at why it can't have IBIS, why they can't take non-blurry photos, why can't the AF be as good as their DSLRs, it's a reminder to consider what the A7R is - a 1st generation feat of engineering that puts a D800E sensor into a E-M1 body. It has it's pros and it has its cons. Whether you can live with it is up to you but to slate it as crap because it can''t take photos of your kids running around in candle light it really doing the camera a disservice.

pls. don't put word into my mouth I didn't say - it was only to object to the notion that it CAN'T do what you described in your [supposedly ridiculous] hypothetical scenario: "If you want to be shooting shots, whilst riding horseback, jumping onto that steam train and shooting them injians in the process, perhaps you need to reevaluate why you would be needing a $$$ camera for that - because that's NOT what they're designed for. Buy a P'n'S instead". and esp. to the absurd notion that such vagaries are a domain of P&S alone.

Yes, the a7r might have rather lame or even outright cr@@y AF, but more difficult scenes have been captured in the past by using MF-only, and the a7r is no different in this respect from, say, N7 or any other such, only because it might be judged by some as a high $$$ tool

jpr2

 

[NEXFULLFRAME]

So if you like shooting from a tripod and want maximum details on static objects, this may be the camera for you.

Plenty of people shooting legacy glass and manual focus lenses will thrive with this camera without a tripod, too. I suspect we'll see even a lot of street photographers love this camera. The 55/1.8 lens looks to compete with the Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 when stopped down a bit, which is a $4,000 camera that is excellent. People are going to get outstanding photos with this camera using AF and manual focus. But there will also be times when people get a little frustrated with the AF, I suspect.

I fully agree with you. Even though I wont be getting one soon, the above poster was completely off on his statement but that is the internet for you

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lgabrielg/

From the review itself

Conversely I found when shooting with the A7r it was easy to fall into a more casual style, and while you can get away with that on smaller formats with stabilisation, there's much less margin for error when shooting unstabilised with full-frame. Many of my more casual handheld snaps with the A7r were lacking sharpness either due to slightly missing the focus or wobbling a little from camera-shake, and I know under the same conditions I'd have nailed the shot with, say, an Olympus EM5 or EM1. The combination of a very high resolution sensor and unstabilised primes with a shallow depth of field means you should shoot carefully for the best results. The A7r body may look like an OMD EM5, but inside you've got something akin to the Nikon D800e and from my experience with that camera I only ever got the full 36 Megapixel goodness from it when shooting on a tripod.

Poor Gordon Laing of Cameralabs. He's completely off or so says DPReview forum members.

Agreed. He needs to learn to use the 1/FL shutter speed rule. And then apply with a constant for skill and mp.

 

[antoineb]

Review here: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_A7r/

It's a very good review and generally very positive. Image quality is outstanding. OUTSTANDING!

Snippet that pertains to what I was most interested in:

My biggest issue concerns autofocus. The A7r's contrast-based AF system is fairly leisurely under good light and quite lethargic in dim conditions. Shoot in very low light or with a small AF area under challenging conditions and it may not even lock-on at all. It's noticeably inferior to the speed and confidence of the contrast-based AF system on modern Micro Four Thirds cameras, albeit roughly similar to the Live View AF on full-frame DSLRs.

I hate LiveView on my Canon 6D

And this as well:

The cheaper A7 may improve on the A7r's autofocus, both in single and continuous modes, with its array of embedded phase-detect AF points, but in my tests the benefits were generally only experienced under decent light and of course confined to subjects falling within this frame; if they fell outside the PDAF area, the A7 performed similarly to the A7r.

To be fair, I canceled my pre order of the A7 prior to this review. But the only thing I was considering keeping the order for was to fully test the AF (e.g., initial locking on speed) in lower light. This was problematic with the RX1 and I was hoping to see even a little improvement.

But there is much to like about these cameras as the review notes. Perhaps I'll one day even buy one . . . as soon as a faster AF 35 emerges.

--
60 of my favorite shots from the recent past

It seems pretty clear by now that both the A7 and A7r deliver outstanding image quality.

It also seems quite clear that the AF just is not on par for a camera capable of such IQ. An there are various glitches such as the complicated way to set the AF point (ridiculous on a camera capable of such IQ). Or apparently the general lack of responsiveness.

Bottom-line for me:
- congratulations to Sony for having launched 24-36mm sensor cameras capable of such high IQ
- seems like, as often, it will be wise to wait a good 6 months to hopefully see a firmware upgrade boosting the AF performance. Or perhaps wait 12 months and see the next version of these cameras, with the AF performance much improved.

 

[rishi o']

Sorry but I think the touchscreen is a heck of a lot faster and frankly more awesome-er.

How do you do it? Depends on the model of camera you're working with.

On the Olympus cameras, first you have auto-switching enabled, so that when you take your eye away from the EVF, the LCD activates. Afterwards, you can simply remove your eye from the EVF momentarily to look at the LCD, touch the screen for the AF point you want, then look back in the EVF (or use the rear LCD, whatever). It's *much faster* than it sounds and works awesomely (I shot a wedding this way).

Now on some Panasonic models, they do even one better - you can enable a mode so that /while using the EVF/, you can move your finger around the LCD and it moves the AF point in the EVF. Freaking awesome is what it is.

 

[havanna60]

Sorry but I think the touchscreen is a heck of a lot faster and frankly more awesome-er.

Now on some Panasonic models, they do even one better - you can enable a mode so that /while using the EVF/, you can move your finger around the LCD and it moves the AF point in the EVF. Freaking awesome is what it is.

That said, I can't disagree with you because I haven't tried a touch-lcd. I'll have to give it a try sometime but in theory my preferred method sounds better to me

Hi Rishio,

You are an excellent photographer; you will love how Panasonic GX7, GX6 or GH3 touch-screen was devised for setting the focus point while keeping an eye to the EVF (as written nicely by JL above); it's brilliantly revolutionary IMHO.Have a look at 1:53 on

I had expected a similar solution in A7R.

All the Best, Miki

 

[Marla2008]

Hi Mel,

I wasn't complaining about the horse jumping shot; I'm quite happy with it. My point was that I needed 1/400th or better to avoid motion blur in these shots with a 135 on a NEX-7. IBIS would not have helped at all. I needed a fast lens and good high ISO capability.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[turnstyle]

- I find disabling the shutter half/button press for autofocus and enabling the back button autofocus is far superior for autofocus than using a touchscreen. How do you even use a touchscreen while you are using the EVF for autofocus?

I lean toward manual focus, and I wish the A7/A7r had a touch screen, so that I could more easily indicate where I want to zoom in.

focus and re-compose - if it works for the pros it'll work for everyone else.

Not always effective with a fast lens, esp. if subject is close (eg, focusing on an eye).

imho, touchscreen is obviously handy -- or it could be turned off -- and it's a peeve that Sony left it out.