Any drawbacks to buying a Sigma?

[NancyP]

In general, the third party lenses have slower autofocus than the original manufacturer lenses. Sigma reverse engineers the AF protocol that Canon uses.

Consider the new 18-35mm f/1.8 lens, it is still cheaper than the Canon 17-55. Throw in the Nifty Fifty Canon 50mm f/1.8 at 100-120 dollars, the two lenses together are STILL cheaper than Canon 17-55.

If you don't use f/2.8, consider the EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6. It really is a good all-around lens. Canon 70-200 f/4L IS or non-IS complements it well and is lightweight as well as very sharp.

 

[Keith Z Leonard]

Yes HSM AND USM are both significantly louder than STM lenses. That is actually the who point of STM lenses, to be quiet for video. The Sigma is a lot quieter than the Tamron, as you can tell from the video below.

Using contrast detect AF in servo means that any lens will be making minute adjustments back and forth constantly, not the quietest thing ever, also not necessarily the healthiest thing for the lens.

If you have ever read any threads on DSLR video I'm sure you have come across he fact that it's not a camcorder, and for the most part people use manual focus. For the most part it's semi-pro and pro video guys using DSLR's as well, typically with 2nd audio (not using the integrated mic, I mean, it's not that great).

If you bought a DSLR with the idea that it would replace your camcorder, I think a salesman did you a disservice. I use my 5d3 that way, but I've been shooting films long enough that it's easy for me to handle MF with it.

For what it's worth, I shot 2 short films with the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 OS and it performed well. I wouldn't turn off the OS, it's one of the best reasons to use this lens for video. What you are hearing is the AF.

tubby wrote:

I was intending to start a new thread to ask this, but thought the question could fit into this thread.

I just purchased my first DSLR, a SL1 with 18-55mm IS STM kit lens, and got a Sigma 17-50mm OS HSM to replace it.

Before the purchase, I did quite a bit of research and opted for the Sigma over a Tamron 17-50mm because most seems to say that the Sigma is a lot quieter than the Tamron, which would be a plus especially for video recording.

Apart for its size, I intentionally picked a SL1 for its touch-to-focus feature and was hoping that I can do some casual recording with the servo AF on. But to my surprise, the Sigma I received is incredibly noisy. So much so that makes me wonder how much noisier the Tamron could be.

I tried asking the local distributor and also wrote an email to ask a Sigma rep, but both says the noise is normal. Sigma rep advised me to turn OS off (which I'm not too keen on doing since I hope to have OS during recording), but that didn't help. Local distributor says it should at least be quieter than any kit lens. But in fact, its quite the opposite. The Canon 18-55mm IS STM kit lens is whisper quiet.

This is the short clip recorded with the Sigma, while this is recorded with the Canon kit lens (I tapped on the glass to prove that it was not muted ). Is the noise really a norm across all Sigma lenses?

 

[skanter]

I bought two Sigma 18-200 OS years ago, and tested them fully. One was much sharper than the other, making me think quality control is not good. I kept the good copy, and it is a great lens for travel.

I bought a Sigma 10-20mm, it had defective AF, returned it and got another defective one. I gave up and bought a Canon 10-22 and never looked back. I generally feel much more confident buying Canon lenses in terms of QC, future body compatibility, and sales value. I'm willing to spend a bit more for Canon lenses or buy used. I recently bought a used 17-55 2.8 for $650, it is a fantastic lens. I'm glad I didn't get a Sigma 17-50. YMMV

 

[SushiEater]

Sounds like your Sigma is broken.

I had the same problem with Sigma 150mm F2.8 OS. Same exact noise.

Sigma said it was normal. But I insisted and they replaced it and it is whisper quite now.

I suggest you replace yours.

 

[victorian squid]

happysnapper64 wrote:

Hey, VS. Thought we hadn't heard from you for a while. Hope things are OK with you. I have recently got myself the Sigma 150f/2.8 OS macro. Touch heavy, but great IQ. Am thinking of the 18-35f/1.8, just wish it was a degree or 2 wider, like 15-40 as it is an APS-c lens anyway? Seems worth considering anyway.

 

[tubby]

Thanks a lot for the insight, and thank you also for the video link. It may be me, but to be honest, I prefer the sound of the Tamron. It at least gives a more natural motor sound in comparison to the worrying stuttering sound of the Sigma. With the Sigma, after hearing the recording, several members of the family are also convinced that the sound seems to come from a defective instrument.

My purchase was from reading reviews alone, because I was intrigued by the "tap to focus" feature in the new Canon line, and reviews have been saying the Sigma is the lens to pick for recording purposes due to its quieter sound. So I was expecting to get some decent casual recordings from that combination. Sadly, I was very unpleasantly surprised after the first quick recording test.
I even grabbed my old Ixus to do some quick recording just a few days ago.

And yes, I agree, OS was one of the appealing factor of the Sigma 17-50mm for both stills and video recording, however, after trying to explain the reasoning behind my disappointment with the lens, the Sigma rep simply replied me with one line of advice which says the following:

"Turn the OS off while shooting video, it is designed for still photography."

I recently notice that the focus ring on the STM lens does not rotate on AF. That could be the reason why it is whisper quiet. I may have to learn and settle with MF for now, but will keep my eye out for any Canon STM lens with similar focal lengths.

To go back to the topic of discussion, I find that noise as being a huge drawback for Sigma lenses.

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

Yes HSM AND USM are both significantly louder than STM lenses. That is actually the who point of STM lenses, to be quiet for video. The Sigma is a lot quieter than the Tamron, as you can tell from the video below.

Using contrast detect AF in servo means that any lens will be making minute adjustments back and forth constantly, not the quietest thing ever, also not necessarily the healthiest thing for the lens.

If you have ever read any threads on DSLR video I'm sure you have come across he fact that it's not a camcorder, and for the most part people use manual focus. For the most part it's semi-pro and pro video guys using DSLR's as well, typically with 2nd audio (not using the integrated mic, I mean, it's not that great).

If you bought a DSLR with the idea that it would replace your camcorder, I think a salesman did you a disservice. I use my 5d3 that way, but I've been shooting films long enough that it's easy for me to handle MF with it.

For what it's worth, I shot 2 short films with the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 OS and it performed well. I wouldn't turn off the OS, it's one of the best reasons to use this lens for video. What you are hearing is the AF.

 

[tubby]

Thank you for your reply and that is a bit uplifting to hear.

Do you by any chance have a clip done by the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS recorded with AF on?

Both Sigma rep and the local distributor assures me that my lens is normal, but perhaps if I can prove it otherwise, I might want to insist to get a replacement from the local distributor.

Thanks again.

SushiEater wrote:

Sounds like your Sigma is broken.

I had the same problem with Sigma 150mm F2.8 OS. Same exact noise.

Sigma said it was normal. But I insisted and they replaced it and it is whisper quite now.

I suggest you replace yours.

 

[victorian squid]

I've had my 17-50 for about a year and a half now. In order to hear the OS, I have to literally put my ear right up to the lens. Even then I can barely hear it. When I first got it I honestly thought the OS was DOA and freaked out.

The only time I can tell it's on is when it switches off, which is a barely audible clunk. It's possible that could turn up on video - but then I'm not sure how - if the lens is engaged it won't shut off! It's by far the quietest lens I own. AF makes no noise as well. My EF-S 17-85 would be noisy in comparison.

I've never been able to hear anything on video I've shot (EOS 60D). I guess if I were to go into a room with zero ambient noise I could make something out.

My Sigma 70-200 f2.8 OS can be heard as a very slight whirring - it has more audible clunk it makes when the OS shuts off too. Since there's so much travel for the focus ring - the AF is certainly noticeable. But as Kieth Z says - MF is the way to go (at least for now) when shooting vid on a DSLR.

Looking at those videos it seriously sounds as if something is wrong - and it's disappointing that Sigma would say it's within normal operating parameters. If you're within a return window from where you bought it I'd swap it out right away!

 

[Keith Z Leonard]

I don't think the noise that he are hearing is the OS, in fact I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of money on it. The Sigma rep sounds like he's just trying to get rid of you. I had a much better experience with them over the 50 f1.4 AF issue I had (my only Sigma lens with any issues).

I just did a quick test with the 5D3 and the Sigma 50 f1.4 and it's nowhere near as loud as the video linked above. It's still not a stepper motor lens, but it's MAYBE 5% louder in AF than my 70-200 f4 L. My 100-400 L (which is USM) is the loudest lens that I own.

People buying DSLRs and expecting them to be camcorders are in for a shock, they are certainly NOT that, and MF is actually quite easy. The new 70D and STM lenses are certainly Canon trying to get DSLR video to be competitive with camcorders for the "casual" user.

Anyway, I suspect there is an issue with tubby's lens and he got a not so great Sigma rep on the phone. I don't have a SL1, so I can't tell if this is in part a problem with the body+lens combo. Certainly it sounds like it's trying to move a stepper rather than a USM/HSM lens? A lot of small movements, rather than the typical binary search zeroing in on focus that happens with my bodies.

 

[victorian squid]

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

I don't think the noise that he are hearing is the OS, in fact I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of money on it. The Sigma rep sounds like he's just trying to get rid of you. I had a much better experience with them over the 50 f1.4 AF issue I had (my only Sigma lens with any issues).

I just did a quick test with the 5D3 and the Sigma 50 f1.4 and it's nowhere near as loud as the video linked above. It's still not a stepper motor lens, but it's MAYBE 5% louder in AF than my 70-200 f4 L. My 100-400 L (which is USM) is the loudest lens that I own.

People buying DSLRs and expecting them to be camcorders are in for a shock, they are certainly NOT that, and MF is actually quite easy. The new 70D and STM lenses are certainly Canon trying to get DSLR video to be competitive with camcorders for the "casual" user.

Anyway, I suspect there is an issue with tubby's lens and he got a not so great Sigma rep on the phone. I don't have a SL1, so I can't tell if this is in part a problem with the body+lens combo. Certainly it sounds like it's trying to move a stepper rather than a USM/HSM lens? A lot of small movements, rather than the typical binary search zeroing in on focus that happens with my bodies.

You seem to have a much better idea of what's going on here - I certainly can't figure it out. It's like nothing I've heard as far as what i consider typical noise off of a lens.

So maybe you think it could be something that's being picked up that's not necessarily audio - i.e. some sort of electronic noise/hash from a possible incompatibility then? Maybe I missed it but but tubby can or can't hear it when filming?

I agree that MF really is pretty easy - unless of course you're trying to record a subject doing a lot of moving around. Even then it's just a matter of practice. I've been amazed at how lazy I've gotten for general photography - sometimes I can't believe 30 years ago I was dialing f-stops, focusing and winding the camera like crazy getting the shots I did. Motor drive was my first "luxury". Now that I've started using manual lenses again it's coming back - even then I'll still hit the shutter button and then go "oh yeah!". ;-)

 

[SushiEater]

Unfortunately it was at least 1.5 years ago or so (when 150mm came out) so I don't have the sound. But it does not matter because even after I sent the sound file to Sigma they told me it was normal. Luckily I have other Sigma lenses with HSM and OS that sound different, normal. So Sigma replaced the lens.

My lens also jerked a little while it was producing this sound so pictures weren't stable. But I think your sound is coming from the focusing mechanism. It sounds like gear is broken.

 

[Keith Z Leonard]

victorian squid wrote:
You seem to have a much better idea of what's going on here - I certainly can't figure it out. It's like nothing I've heard as far as what i consider typical noise off of a lens.

Just trying to make my best guess. It's certainly louder than what I've heard from my lens as well. But it sounds to me like the lens is trying to take 100 little "steps"??

So maybe you think it could be something that's being picked up that's not necessarily audio - i.e. some sort of electronic noise/hash from a possible incompatibility then? Maybe I missed it but but tubby can or can't hear it when filming?

I can hear the AF when filming with all of my lenses, I don't have any STM lenses though....there's a reason why they invented those.

I agree that MF really is pretty easy - unless of course you're trying to record a subject doing a lot of moving around. Even then it's just a matter of practice. I've been amazed at how lazy I've gotten for general photography - sometimes I can't believe 30 years ago I was dialing f-stops, focusing and winding the camera like crazy getting the shots I did. Motor drive was my first "luxury". Now that I've started using manual lenses again it's coming back - even then I'll still hit the shutter button and then go "oh yeah!". ;-)

Yeah, I know what you mean, I have some excess film left over and I occasionally load up the ole AE-1 and shoot a roll, just for perspective.

 

[SushiEater]

Here is what Sigma 35mm F1.4 on D800 sounds like.

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app.box.com

 

[SushiEater]

From 5D3 and Sigma 150mm OS. AF and OS are on.

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app.box.com

 

[tubby]

victorian squid wrote:

So maybe you think it could be something that's being picked up that's not necessarily audio - i.e. some sort of electronic noise/hash from a possible incompatibility then? Maybe I missed it but but tubby can or can't hear it when filming?

Yes, it's definitely not OS that is causing all the sound. I don't actually perceive any audible noise with OS on. Whereas the AF sound is very audible, even in the resulting video.

I agree that MF really is pretty easy - unless of course you're trying to record a subject doing a lot of moving around. Even then it's just a matter of practice. I've been amazed at how lazy I've gotten for general photography

I'm still trying to learn MF, but given how efficient the new servo AF is going to be, it'll be nice to be given the option of being lazy

 

[tubby]

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

I just did a quick test with the 5D3 and the Sigma 50 f1.4 and it's nowhere near as loud as the video linked above. It's still not a stepper motor lens, but it's MAYBE 5% louder in AF than my 70-200 f4 L. My 100-400 L (which is USM) is the loudest lens that I own.

Thanks for running the quick testing. On your loudest lens, would you consider the sound being caught in the recording still tolerable?

People buying DSLRs and expecting them to be camcorders are in for a shock, they are certainly NOT that, and MF is actually quite easy. The new 70D and STM lenses are certainly Canon trying to get DSLR video to be competitive with camcorders for the "casual" user.

Before my purchase, I was actually given the impression that DSLR can make one excellent camcorder replacement. But, yes, sadly I missed the MF part

Anyway, I suspect there is an issue with tubby's lens and he got a not so great Sigma rep on the phone. I don't have a SL1, so I can't tell if this is in part a problem with the body+lens combo.

I got a really nice and helpful local Sigma rep though, and he was kind enough to send me a video taken with a 17-50mm he have at hand. Sadly it is almost as loud. I didn't get an answer on what camera was used but I can be fairly certain its not a SL1.

It's certainly louder than what I've heard from my lens as well. But it sounds to me like the lens is trying to take 100 little "steps"??

Yes, it seems to be doing exactly that. Strangely enough, when taking still pictures through the VF, it AF quite smoothly; it zips to a spot, and only do a few minor adjustments after. But if I turn Live View on, it would do something very similar to what it does during video recording; taking numerous tiny steps before it gets focused. Would this be normal?

I can hear the AF when filming with all of my lenses, I don't have any STM lenses though....there's a reason why they invented those.

I don't expect HSM would be as quiet as the newer(?) STM, but at least still tolerable on video recordings, especially seeing how the Sigma website describes HSM as "Quiet & Fast Autofocusing. This lens uses a motor driven by ultrasonic waves to provide a quiet, high-speed AF."

The local Sigma rep forwarded my issue to the technicians in Japan, and strangely they got back saying that the noise in my video is a characteristic to HSM. And strangely not all HSM lens have this "characteristic" noises.

Local rep provided me 3 videos all recorded with AF on. Lenses used was:

• 17-50mm - Almost as noisy as mine
• 17-70mm - Gives stuttering noise as well, but much softer. Still intolerable though.
• 35mm - Almost whisper quiet

SushiEater's video with the 35mm is also very quiet. Should all HSM lens sound like that, I wouldn't hesitate getting the Sigma even when comparing it against a STM lens.

 

[tubby]

SushiEater wrote:

Unfortunately it was at least 1.5 years ago or so (when 150mm came out) so I don't have the sound. But it does not matter because even after I sent the sound file to Sigma they told me it was normal. Luckily I have other Sigma lenses with HSM and OS that sound different, normal. So Sigma replaced the lens.

My lens also jerked a little while it was producing this sound so pictures weren't stable. But I think your sound is coming from the focusing mechanism. It sounds like gear is broken.

Thanks a lot for the video!

I really wish all HSM lens are as quiet as your 35mm F1.4. The 150mm produces some clicking sounds, but judging from the ambient noise, it is nowhere as bad as mine and still usable.

Everything else seems functional. I presume having a broken gear would result some other anomaly?

Btw when you got yours replaced, did you receive the same kind of lens as the replacement? And despite being the same type, the replacement unit sounds very different from before?

Local rep is kind enough to offer me a replacement for a new unit or the chance to upgrade to a different lens. I'm still considering the offer, but after seeing two 17-50mm producing similar sounds, I'm not having too high a hope.

Thanks again, SushiEater!

 

[SushiEater]

tubby wrote:

SushiEater wrote:

Unfortunately it was at least 1.5 years ago or so (when 150mm came out) so I don't have the sound. But it does not matter because even after I sent the sound file to Sigma they told me it was normal. Luckily I have other Sigma lenses with HSM and OS that sound different, normal. So Sigma replaced the lens.

My lens also jerked a little while it was producing this sound so pictures weren't stable. But I think your sound is coming from the focusing mechanism. It sounds like gear is broken.

Thanks a lot for the video!

I really wish all HSM lens are as quiet as your 35mm F1.4. The 150mm produces some clicking sounds, but judging from the ambient noise, it is nowhere as bad as mine and still usable.

I think those clicking noises are from focus engaging. But once engage it stops until next movement.

I could not hear it until I heard on the computer.

That is why they recommend external mike.

Everything else seems functional. I presume having a broken gear would result some other anomaly?

Btw when you got yours replaced, did you receive the same kind of lens as the replacement? And despite being the same type, the replacement unit sounds very different from before?

Oh yes. The replacement lens sounds just like any other Sigma lens with HSM.

Local rep is kind enough to offer me a replacement for a new unit or the chance to upgrade to a different lens. I'm still considering the offer, but after seeing two 17-50mm producing similar sounds, I'm not having too high a hope.

They could be all defective if they are from the same batch. It happens even with OEM lenses.

Thanks again, SushiEater!

 

[VirtualMirage]

I'll start off by saying I think Sigma is heading in a great direction, they have come a long way. I currently have their 24-70 F/2.8 EX DG IF HSM and I have been pretty happy with it on my A77 for the most part. I also have on pre-order their 18-35mm F/1.8. Now on to my minor complaint.

I don't think I saw this mentioned and I am not sure if it affects the Canon and Nikon lineup, but on the Sony versions Sigma has a bad habit of reusing the same Lens ID on many of their more current lenses (Lens ID 128 if I recall correctly).

For many people out there, this is a non-issue. But for those of us who have cameras that allow us to do micro focus adjustments (like the A77, A99, A900, or A850), this can be a bit problematic when trying to get the most out of our lenses. The Sony models that can do MFA uses the lens ID to store the values in the camera. If there are multiple lenses with the same lens ID, it assumes they are the same lens and will apply the same values you inputted. To work around this, you have to keep a mental note or a list on hand to go back and put in the correct adjusted values for each lens that shares the same Lens ID (or turn of MFA .

At the moment I only have one Sigma lens and no other brand of lens with the same lens ID, so it is currently a non-issue. But I do have the Sigma 18-35mm on pre-order and I have a feeling it will have the same lens ID like the others, so I will need to keep track of the adjustments made if I choose to keep both lenses.

Also, there are other Sigma lenses that I am interested but the concern of having too many Sigmas with all having the same lens ID may prove to be a bit of a hassle. If Sigma would just use a wider range of lens ID numbers, this point would be moot. They would have also seen more purchases from me since I have been eying a few of their other lenses (85mm F/1.4, 105 F/2.8 Macro, etc.).

If Sigma gets on the ball and releases their USB Dock for the Sony mount like they already have on the roadmap for the Canon and Nikon mounts, then this won't be a problem anymore for their newest lenses. But so far, they have yet to announce if this will be available in my mount. As for their older lenses, you'll have to stick it out and keep note of the adjustments or replace them with a different brand.

 

[Keith Z Leonard]

tubby wrote:

Thanks for running the quick testing. On your loudest lens, would you consider the sound being caught in the recording still tolerable?

No, that's why they make STM lenses and the new AF systems coming in the 70D. I use MF for video at all times.

People buying DSLRs and expecting them to be camcorders are in for a shock, they are certainly NOT that, and MF is actually quite easy. The new 70D and STM lenses are certainly Canon trying to get DSLR video to be competitive with camcorders for the "casual" user.

Before my purchase, I was actually given the impression that DSLR can make one excellent camcorder replacement. But, yes, sadly I missed the MF part

Whoever gave you that impression misled you. It's not a camcorder, it's going to give you fantastic image quality at the expense of ease of use. That's why the tech in the 70D is interesting, because it's going to put DLSRs on the same plane as camcorders for ease of use. I suspect most film makers will not use the video AF anyway though.

I got a really nice and helpful local Sigma rep though, and he was kind enough to send me a video taken with a 17-50mm he have at hand. Sadly it is almost as loud. I didn't get an answer on what camera was used but I can be fairly certain its not a SL1.

Yes, I'm not saying it would be quieter on other bodies, but perhaps take less steps.

It's certainly louder than what I've heard from my lens as well. But it sounds to me like the lens is trying to take 100 little "steps"??

Yes, it seems to be doing exactly that. Strangely enough, when taking still pictures through the VF, it AF quite smoothly; it zips to a spot, and only do a few minor adjustments after. But if I turn Live View on, it would do something very similar to what it does during video recording; taking numerous tiny steps before it gets focused. Would this be normal?

It's not strange that is perfectly normal, you should google the difference between phase detection auto focus and contrast detection auto focus. In a nutshell phase detection give a good idea not only of whether or not you are in focus, but also if you are front or back focused and roughly by how much. So a phase detection system can get to the right result in big jumps and then a small adjustment.

Contract detection AF measures the scene contrast, the moves the lens forward or backward and measures again, if it's better it's going the right direction, if it's worse, it went the wrong direction, adjust and repeat until the amount of contrast in the test area is above an acceptable threshold.

Contrast is more accurate but very slow, phase is super fast but can have issues with calibration between lenses and bodies. That's why higher end bodies include "auto focus micro adjustment", to adjust for phase detection calibration issues. Also the the Sigma art lenses include a system where you can buy a 60$ USB doc and calibrate that way.

I can hear the AF when filming with all of my lenses, I don't have any STM lenses though....there's a reason why they invented those.

I don't expect HSM would be as quiet as the newer(?) STM, but at least still tolerable on video recordings, especially seeing how the Sigma website describes HSM as "Quiet & Fast Autofocusing. This lens uses a motor driven by ultrasonic waves to provide a quiet, high-speed AF."

Yes, and it is hugely quieter than the old motor drive lenses. What they say is 100% true given that the typical use of these lenses is phase detection AF for photography. These are primarily still cameras, the video feature isn't their primary purpose. The STM and on sensor PDAF stuff is all about making them compete with camcorders. Again, the people shooting video with DSLRs are often professionals looking for something cheaper than a Red system.

The local Sigma rep forwarded my issue to the technicians in Japan, and strangely they got back saying that the noise in my video is a characteristic to HSM. And strangely not all HSM lens have this "characteristic" noises.

They vary, some USM or HSM lenses are quieter than others, and they are all much quieter than the old motor drives. It's true that the 17-50 is one of the louder HSM drives, still much quieter than the 18-50 EX DC Macro lens drive (I have owned both).

Local rep provided me 3 videos all recorded with AF on. Lenses used was:

• 17-50mm - Almost as noisy as mine
• 17-70mm - Gives stuttering noise as well, but much softer. Still intolerable though.
• 35mm - Almost whisper quiet

SushiEater's video with the 35mm is also very quiet. Should all HSM lens sound like that, I wouldn't hesitate getting the Sigma even when comparing it against a STM lens.

Yeah, it's interesting, the HSM/USM is faster and quieter than the old drive systems, that's why they are marketed that way, but they were not designed to be quiet enough for video work with contrast detection AF, that's what the STM lenses are designed to do. The fact that there are some lenses quiet enough with USM/HSM is nice, but I wouldn't be counting on it.