Hats off to Fuji...

[kcamacho11]

GaryW wrote:
Fuji fans are going to have a cow when Sony is first with FF mirrorless.....

 

[captura]

Ed B wrote:

I'm one of those strange people who own both a Fuji X-E1 camera and an NEX camera.

I can truthfully say that arguing about which camera or company is the "best" is probably a waste of time.

Neither camera is perfect:

Sony's indoor white balance is not as dependable as Fuji's

Fuji's settings that control shutter speed aren't as good as Sony's (Fuji's auto settings are often too low)

Fuji has a better JPEG processor than Sony (mostly opinion)

Sony has much better video.

The list could go on and on but it's pointless because both systems are darn good and neither company leaves their customers out in the cold.

If I had to choose just one camera it would probably be the Fuji but that wouldn't be because of picture quality; it would be because of the menu.

That's the one area where Fuji beats Sony. It has nothing to do with the final picture, firmware updates or customer satisfaction but it does make the Fuji nicer to use (just another opinion).

Anyway, they're both great camera systems and if a person likes to use scene modes then they better buy an NEX because the X-P1 and X-E1 doesn't have them (one more accolade for Sony).

Thank you for that. Another camera with a great menu system, apparently, is the Ricoh GR.

 

[Kiichiro]

It looks like Fuji is taking customer satisfaction more seriously than Sony is. SAR reports that another firmware update is being released this time adding focus peaking to the XPRO, a major improvement IMHO.

SAR has posted rumors to the effect that the NEX 7 will receive a firmware upgrade. I am hoping it will be more than the minimal change (disabling the video button and adding additional stops to the bracketing is trivial from a programmers perspective (I being one), if you wrote the code it shouldn't take more than a day to do both) the last one included.

They certainly are a frustrating company.

It's people like you that is why my company strip things out when they release a product and then patch it back in later.

It makes people think we care. What I hate it's when we charge $5 or so for it and people buy it like it's free.

Many companies are doing it now.

Sony is charging $5 or so for those nex apps that should be included for free.

 

[glacierpete]

Fuji has decades of experience as maker of pro lenses (large/medium format), camera systems (medium format) and film. Sony is an electronics giant. That might explain their different approach to product development and customer satisfaction.

 

[captura]

Kiichiro wrote:

It looks like Fuji is taking customer satisfaction more seriously than Sony is. SAR reports that another firmware update is being released this time adding focus peaking to the XPRO, a major improvement IMHO.

SAR has posted rumors to the effect that the NEX 7 will receive a firmware upgrade. I am hoping it will be more than the minimal change (disabling the video button and adding additional stops to the bracketing is trivial from a programmers perspective (I being one), if you wrote the code it shouldn't take more than a day to do both) the last one included.

They certainly are a frustrating company.

It's people like you that is why my company strip things out when they release a product and then patch it back in later.

It makes people think we care. What I hate it's when we charge $5 or so for it and people buy it like it's free.

Many companies are doing it now.

Sony is charging $5 or so for those nex apps that should be included for free.

AND SOME OF THEM WERE FEATURES INCLUDED WITH THE CAMERA AND NOW THEY ARE LEFT OUT, FORCING YOU TO BUY THE AP. AND CONNECTING TO THE AP SYSTEM WITH SONY IS NOT WORTH THE BOTHER.

 

[boardsy]

The original NEX-3 & 5 were transformed by Sony listening to its users complaining about the menu system - they added user-assigned button functions to their newer 5n etc lines PLUS made this, and the wonderful new focus peaking feature, available to the by-then obsolete 3 & 5. This was huge upgrade for existing users. Yes, the menu was still annoying but you didn't rely on it so much now, yes, user-assignable auto-ISO max & min, bracketing etc would be nice and simple to implement, but Sony do listen, and react.

Don't forget to take photos!

Canon FDn 35/2 @ f13 + Minolta close-up no.2, cropped

https://flic.kr/p/ffJXLt

--
Regards,
Alan
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59079068@N02/

 

[hellocrowley]

Guys, I'm a Fuji user. The new focus peaking feature doesn't work well and the AF improvement is not very noticeable (if any). While updates are appreciated, I'd prefer the camera work well from the beginning.

Some might look at it from a glass half full perspective. But I look at it differently, after a year of working around annoying quirks.

 

[captura]

Midwest wrote:

captura wrote:

dellaaa wrote:

It looks like Fuji is taking customer satisfaction more seriously than Sony is. SAR reports that another firmware update is being released this time adding focus peaking to the XPRO, a major improvement IMHO.

SAR has posted rumors to the effect that the NEX 7 will receive a firmware upgrade. I am hoping it will be more than the minimal change (disabling the video button and adding additional stops to the bracketing is trivial from a programmers perspective (I being one), if you wrote the code it shouldn't take more than a day to do both) the last one included.

They certainly are a frustrating company.

1- The expected NEX-7x replacement camera seems to be delayed

2- my assumption is that NEX-7 sales are way down.

IF the above are true, then Sony may indeed issue another firmware update, which is a bit unusual for them. They would like to boost their sales of the semi-obsolete current model. I'd expect some price reductions, too.

That's pretty funny... go ahead and tell someone that their two year old "$1100-for-the-body-only" camera is 'semi obsolete'.

I just did. If someone wants to listen to Sony Spinmeisters (can't blame them) and to NEX-7 enthusiasts wearing blinders, that's their choice. The 7 is a wonderfull camera and a nice basis for a revised model. But lens compatibility issues due to the design of the 24mp sensor and engine have been evident from the beginning, only partially ameliorated by a firmware update. And now it seems there may (or may not) be another firmware update. Hopefully yes.

 

[captura]

dellaaa wrote:

Decisions have to be made as to what features to include in a camera given a chosen release date and engineering resources.

There is an old saying in manufacturing that goes "There comes a time when you have to kill the engineer" meaning given an engineer's preference a product can continually be improved and will never be released.

I am sure due to engineering resources, Fuji left out focus peaking intentionally, but they did include an optical finder. With finite engineering, decisions have to be made.

Again, every product released today can be improved, Fuji chooses to improve their product, Sony does not. Who would you buy a camera from?

I would always choose the Sony. But to remove some features from my 5R which were previously standard issue with the older 5N model is not acceptable.

 

[kcamacho11]

hellocrowley wrote:

Guys, I'm a Fuji user. The new focus peaking feature doesn't work well and the AF improvement is not very noticeable (if any). While updates are appreciated, I'd prefer the camera work well from the beginning.

Some might look at it from a glass half full perspective. But I look at it differently, after a year of working around annoying quirks.

I own an X-E1....and the new firmware made a huge difference for AF. The focus peaking feature is pretty good, but not at the Sony-level as far as showing you the highlights through the EVF.

But now the AF is fast and locks quickly, even in low/dim light. It is a lot faster than it was before the new update.

I have no complaints.

 

[gil]

I am just pulling your legs on that 1st comment; thus, don't take it seriously. The main point I want to make in general is that while the camera may matter a bit, it is more important on how one optimizes and exploits all the capabilities of what they have currently to the fullest extent of their resources.

I just got an old model entry level NEX F3 a few months back and already did some LCD birding/BIFs from it (tough but doable) and now just finishing off some macro shots from it using the 18-55mm kit lens. Not bad so far and seems to be comparable to the P&S fun macro shots I had. Will post the NEX F3 initial/experimental macro shots later on this week.

cheers,

gil

From 4MP Panasonic FZ4 with achromat lens circa 2007.

From 8MP I think Panasonic FZ8 with achromat lens circa 2007

Still with FZ8

FZ8

FZ35

--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

 

[hellocrowley]

kcamacho11 wrote:

hellocrowley wrote:

Guys, I'm a Fuji user. The new focus peaking feature doesn't work well and the AF improvement is not very noticeable (if any). While updates are appreciated, I'd prefer the camera work well from the beginning.

Some might look at it from a glass half full perspective. But I look at it differently, after a year of working around annoying quirks.

I own an X-E1....and the new firmware made a huge difference for AF. The focus peaking feature is pretty good, but not at the Sony-level as far as showing you the highlights through the EVF.

But now the AF is fast and locks quickly, even in low/dim light. It is a lot faster than it was before the new update.

I have no complaints.

XPro1 + 35mm + 18mm. I don't find AF faster, the lenses seem to wobble back and forth more. The focus peaking is a joke, not reliable at all; the tolerance is too high, even clearly out-of-focus areas are highlighted.

I'm glad it works for you though.

 

[Ed B]

gil wrote:

I am just pulling your legs on that 1st comment; thus, don't take it seriously. The main point I want to make in general is that while the camera may matter a bit, it is more important on how one optimizes and exploits all the capabilities of what they have currently to the fullest extent of their resources.

I just got an old model entry level NEX F3 a few months back and already did some LCD birding/BIFs from it (tough but doable) and now just finishing off some macro shots from it using the 18-55mm kit lens. Not bad so far and seems to be comparable to the P&S fun macro shots I had. Will post the NEX F3 initial/experimental macro shots later on this week.

cheers,

gil

From 4MP Panasonic FZ4 with achromat lens circa 2007.

From 8MP I think Panasonic FZ8 with achromat lens circa 2007

Still with FZ8

FZ8

FZ35

--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

The F3 is Sony's entry level NEX and it did come out last year but calling it an "old model" just doesn't seem to do it justice. I guess it has been replaced but just a few months ago it was the newest entry level model.

Anyway it has a good sensor and, when it comes to picture quality, is probably as good a camera as anything up to the level of the NEX 7.

 

[kcamacho11]

hellocrowley wrote:

kcamacho11 wrote:

hellocrowley wrote:

Guys, I'm a Fuji user. The new focus peaking feature doesn't work well and the AF improvement is not very noticeable (if any). While updates are appreciated, I'd prefer the camera work well from the beginning.

Some might look at it from a glass half full perspective. But I look at it differently, after a year of working around annoying quirks.

I own an X-E1....and the new firmware made a huge difference for AF. The focus peaking feature is pretty good, but not at the Sony-level as far as showing you the highlights through the EVF.

But now the AF is fast and locks quickly, even in low/dim light. It is a lot faster than it was before the new update.

I have no complaints.

XPro1 + 35mm + 18mm. I don't find AF faster, the lenses seem to wobble back and forth more. The focus peaking is a joke, not reliable at all; the tolerance is too high, even clearly out-of-focus areas are highlighted.

I'm glad it works for you though.

Funny you mention yhou have an XPro1. A lot of Xpro1 users are saying the same, while the X-E1 users (like myself) are saying the new update is awesome.

Weird. I'm not sure what's going on with that. Apparently, the new firmware update works significantly better for the X-E1.

 

[Ed B]

hellocrowley wrote:

kcamacho11 wrote:

hellocrowley wrote:

Guys, I'm a Fuji user. The new focus peaking feature doesn't work well and the AF improvement is not very noticeable (if any). While updates are appreciated, I'd prefer the camera work well from the beginning.

Some might look at it from a glass half full perspective. But I look at it differently, after a year of working around annoying quirks.

I own an X-E1....and the new firmware made a huge difference for AF. The focus peaking feature is pretty good, but not at the Sony-level as far as showing you the highlights through the EVF.

But now the AF is fast and locks quickly, even in low/dim light. It is a lot faster than it was before the new update.

I have no complaints.

XPro1 + 35mm + 18mm. I don't find AF faster, the lenses seem to wobble back and forth more. The focus peaking is a joke, not reliable at all; the tolerance is too high, even clearly out-of-focus areas are highlighted.

I'm glad it works for you though.

That surprises me.

I have the X-E1 and after updating the camera (without lens attached) and then the 35mm lens, I do see an improvement in autofocus speed.

I'm also not getting any kind of a wobble.

If that wobble is normal I may be getting cheated and should probably start complaining :-D

Seriously though, sorry the update didn't work out for you and if that lens isn't working properly I'd send it to Fuji for service.

 

[gil]

3N . Here are the test shots from my F3 (link here ).

cheers and have a nice day,

gil

 

[Runnicle]

Well, as an X-E1 owner (plus Nex 5n & 7) I didn't find Fuji's firmware upgrade to be "awesome," at least not with respect to Focus Peaking (FP). And I posted my negative reaction, joining several other disappointed X-E1 owners, on the Fuji X-System forum.

The biggest differences compared to Sony in Fuji's implementation of FP are that for Fuji

1) Any "white shimmer" that is present is not at all obvious through the EVF, and

2) What small patches of shimmer that one finds after much hunting around tend to stay unchanged through a much broader range of rotation of the focus ring than when I put the same MF lenses into Sony bodies and use FP there. Thus I find FP as implemented by Fuji to be an unreliable indicator just of "sharpest" focus, whereas it is such an indicator in both of my Sony cameras.

 

[Cailean Gallimore]

Ed B wrote:

hellocrowley wrote:

kcamacho11 wrote:

hellocrowley wrote:

Guys, I'm a Fuji user. The new focus peaking feature doesn't work well and the AF improvement is not very noticeable (if any). While updates are appreciated, I'd prefer the camera work well from the beginning.

Some might look at it from a glass half full perspective. But I look at it differently, after a year of working around annoying quirks.

I own an X-E1....and the new firmware made a huge difference for AF. The focus peaking feature is pretty good, but not at the Sony-level as far as showing you the highlights through the EVF.

But now the AF is fast and locks quickly, even in low/dim light. It is a lot faster than it was before the new update.

I have no complaints.

XPro1 + 35mm + 18mm. I don't find AF faster, the lenses seem to wobble back and forth more. The focus peaking is a joke, not reliable at all; the tolerance is too high, even clearly out-of-focus areas are highlighted.

I'm glad it works for you though.

That surprises me.

I have the X-E1 and after updating the camera (without lens attached) and then the 35mm lens, I do see an improvement in autofocus speed.

I'm also not getting any kind of a wobble.

If that wobble is normal I may be getting cheated and should probably start complaining :-D

Seriously though, sorry the update didn't work out for you and if that lens isn't working properly I'd send it to Fuji for service.

If Fuji would only listen to it's users, it could deliver that wobble in a simple firmware update.

Stupid company.

 

[onlooker]

Has the latest Fuji firmware upgrade added articulated LCD? No? Bummer.

 

[Cailean Gallimore]

I'm going to start a petition, to be sent to Sony, DEMANDING a firmware upgrade for all NEX cameras containing all of the many bugs inherent in Fuji's X cameras.

Is that really too much to ask?