Any Canon DSLR users ? Your opinions / experiences please !

[Amamba]

I've used a Rebel of one kind of another for the last six years, refusing to go to a bigger body mainly because I travel with the camera a lot and Rebel fit quite nicely in a backpack.

I was however thinking of getting a smaller capable camera for a while. For some vacations, DSLR is just not a feasible option - too large, attracts too much attention etc.

So when I had an opportunity to buy a used Nex F3 with 18-55 kit I jumped at it. Has had this camera since late last Friday and I think I already learned quite a few things about it, most importantly how to customize the menu to make it more DSLR-like.

Still, there are many things I don't know or may be my familiarity with Canon DSLRs makes me use this camera in less than optimal way.

In no particular order:

1) The kit lens is nice but not as sharp as my Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS on Canon. As I understand there's not a single offering in E mount for a fast sharp zoom lens in "standard" range (between 15 and 85). Looks like the only alternative is to get a fast prime & leg zoom, or fall back on the kit lens when needed. (Which is what I intend to do, have a SEL50F1.8 delivered tomorrow). What do you do ?

2) Is centerpoint / single point focus still the mode to use ? How accurate is peak focusing ?

3) I shoot RAW, primarily. Other than Panoramic and Low Light, are there any other JPEG modes worth noting ? How good is the HDR ?

Any other tips specific to Canon shooters ?

 

[NomadMark]

1) The kit lens is nice but not as sharp as my Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS on Canon. As I understand there's not a single offering in E mount for a fast sharp zoom lens in "standard" range (between 15 and 85). Looks like the only alternative is to get a fast prime & leg zoom, or fall back on the kit lens when needed. (Which is what I intend to do, have a SEL50F1.8 delivered tomorrow). What do you do ?

I shoot mainly on a 5Dmk2, and 7D combo, with six L lenses.I can tell you that for me, the kit 18-55mm is not a bad lens, at all. I think people worry far too much about corner to corner sharpness. In poor lighting, the NEX line does will with pushing ISO, but certainly a fast prime is a good way to go. Sigma 19 and 30 combo for $200 and you're set.

2) Is centerpoint / single point focus still the mode to use ? How accurate is peak focusing ?

I use center point mostly, along with flexible point. Focus peaking is awesome. I use a Zeiss 50mm planar f2, and my shots are always tack sharp with peaking. Again. AWESOME.

3) I shoot RAW, primarily. Other than Panoramic and Low Light, are there any other JPEG modes worth noting ? How good is the HDR ?

Stick with raw! The DRO setting work well though, and HDR is ok. Panoramic is ok too, but I would sooner shoot my panos in raw and stitch them later. Most recently, I've been pumping out 230MP shots, that you could enlarge the size of a house =)

Any other tips specific to Canon shooters ?

None. Just go have fun! And enjoy having a camera that you can take out with you and not notice is hanging off your side. I shoot my NEX 7 more than my 5D and 7D. And I like the sony sensors so much I just bought an RX1 over a 5Dmk3.

ENJOY!!!

 

[007peter]

Amamba wrote:

I've used a Rebel of one kind of another for the last six years, refusing to go to a bigger body mainly because I travel with the camera a lot and Rebel fit quite nicely in a backpack.

Same here. I was a hardcore canon rebel owner. I owned 30d, Rebel XTi, Rebel XSi, Rebel T1i before I switch to M43, and now to Sony NEX C3

I was however thinking of getting a smaller capable camera for a while. For some vacations, DSLR is just not a feasible option - too large, attracts too much attention etc.

Agree, you like a DORK. Just like this video:

So when I had an opportunity to buy a used Nex F3 with 18-55 kit I jumped at it. Has had this camera since late last Friday and I think I already learned quite a few things about it, most importantly how to customize the menu to make it more DSLR-like.

Sony NEX menu is designed by IDIOTS. It'll never be logical or DSLR-like. You just have to grind your teeth and bear with the horrible illogical menu system. Setting are all over the place. Sometimes a video setting is buried under setup instead of camera, sometimes the reverse.

6 month into my NEX ownership, I still hates its menu system. Luckily I can program some soft-button and avoid going through the menu as much as possible

Still, there are many things I don't know or may be my familiarity with Canon DSLRs makes me use this camera in less than optimal way.

It won't improved. Sony ain't canon, and have no idea on how to desing a camera menu. The funny thing is that Sony ALPHA menu system is great. Why not just implement the same setup from Sony SLT??? NEX is design by idiots for idiots. Don't feel bad if you never grew comfortable with its idiotic menu system.

1) The kit lens is nice but not as sharp as my Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS on Canon.

NEX lack the Quality Lens on the canon side (quit bad honestly)

Canon doesn't CHEAT and use Software Correction to hides its optical flaw. Canon Rebel lack in-camera barrel distortion and CA correction. As the result, a canon lens must live & died by its pure optical performance.

Most Sony lens however, suffer from severe Barrel Distortion, severe Vignetting, and Soft Corners. Luckily, Sony correct for them via in-camera-processing. However, you lose corner sharpness when comparing against pure optical performance of canon lens. Yes, Canon 18-55mm IS easily outresolve the poor sony 18-55 OSS. If you shoot raw, and by-pass camera correction, the flaw is even worse

As I understand there's not a single offering in E mount for a fast sharp zoom lens in "standard" range (between 15 and 85). Looks like the only alternative is to get a fast prime & leg zoom,

Exactly. Avoid buying Sony E-Mount lens and get yourself a pair of uber sharp Sigma 19mm and Sigma 30mm. These PRIME are sharp corners to corners. They are as good if not superior to many of the canon lens. Sigmas are you best bet for pure optical performance. Otherwise, the only other lens that match canon IQ is the expensive CZ24/1.8

2) Is centerpoint / single point focus still the mode to use ? How accurate is peak focusing ?

Unlike canon DSLR which has extra AF sensitivity in Center-Only AF. I find NEX very reliable on Mult-points AF. It rarely error. But the best kept secret is manual focus with PEAKING

PEAKING is the most Amazing Thing about Sony NEX

NEX Platform Strength are:

• PEAKING
• Continuous AF in HD VIDEO. NEX works great as a HD camcorder
• Best High ISO I'd ever seen
• Best Dynamic Range I'd ever seen
• Small Size and Weight

NEX Platform Weakness

• Horrible lens with poor optical quality (sorry for my honest)
• Lens are over-price and under-perform
• Lens required Software Cheating to correct for its optical flaws
• Lens selection....still left much to be desire
• Still no Fast Sharp 18-55 f/2.8 zoom

I'm disappointed with both new Sony 35mm f/1.8 and Sony 20mm f/2.8 pancake. All of them are horribly soft at f/2.8, with mushy corners, severe barrel distortion, and horrible vignetting. All required software correction, and price much higher than most DSLR lens.
A Sony 35mm f/1.8 DT (Alpha DSLR) is SHARPER and CHEAPER at just $218. It doesn't suffer from severe vignetting, mushy corners. Its is a solid lens for a great price. Unfortunately, the NEX E-Mount 35mm f/1.8 OSS cost $450, Twice as Expensive and Half the performance.
I would give Sony SLT a 2nd look if I were you.

 

[duncanidaho25]

I agree. I still own a 5Dii and use to use a T2i and 60D. I love using the NEX6 now. I choose it over the 5Dii almost always. I do more video but I am slowly learning photography. I wish I had learned the other way around.

I use the sigma 30mm but I don't have the 19mm. It is a great and sharp lens. I also use a lot of old manual focus lenses.

 

[Amamba]

Well, I had some dissatisfaction with what seemed like lack of clarity / resolution in the shots I was getting with F3 and 18-55 kit. Unfortunately I have very little free time to put the camera through proper comparison vs Canon so I decided to take a non-scientific approach.

I won't post any photos because it's all very high level at this point, but here's what I got so far.

First, after reading some complaints about 18-55 being an absolute POS compared to any kit lens, I decided to run it against the old 28-90 EF kit. This is a rather mediocre lens but still capable of holding its own under right lighting conditions.

In poor lighting at ISO 3200 when taking photos of a sharp contrasty sheet of paper SEL would absolutely kill the poor old kit under any conditions. Even with flash and 1/200 handheld to eliminate camera shake. I actually ran the old Canon kit with flash vs Nex without (since no matter how much FEC I dialed down it still glared like crazy) and even in bad lighting without flash NEX came way ahead. The OSS on these bodies is something else.

I then switched to Sigma 17-50 OS. Not surprisingly, it wins. Not as much on the sheet of paper as when taking photos of actual objects from 10-15 ft. When pixel peeping especially (in a JPEG) there's a very noticeable softness / lack of detail in Sony's image, not as noticeable as in zoomed out photo. I am curious if it has anything to do with NR applied in camera. I am in the bedroom on a laptop that doesn't have any RAW viewers so I can't check Raw files until tomorrow.

But basically, it appears that SEL lens is quite good, but there may be something else going on here... some heavy processing in camera.

I am looking at this because the photos from yesterday - the RAWs that I did run through Lightroom - were just a tad lacking - and I couldn't figure out if what I was missing was microcontrast, overall contrast, or sharpness.

 

[Ralph46]

Exclusively Canon since 1974, many (D)SLRs and compacts. Not because I admit to being a Canon fanboy, but because the area service lab is just down the road. For the few breakdowns I had, I just dropped the thing off and could usually pick it up a few hours later.

For earning a tiny bit of money on the side I have always had my (D)SLRs but my inclination for holidays, business travel and hiking etc. has always been to compacts, specially since going digital. Always an internal battle whether to take my D(SLR) and lenses or "just" my compact. Mostly the compact won. The Powershots and S- series have always been great and handy, but can't match the APS-C sensor. Conflict..conflict..conflict!!

4 Months ago I made my decision and sold my completete EOS 60D outfit. Replacing it is a NEX-6 with 2 kit lenses and some adapted Canon FD primes. I have never regretted this move. I travel light and inconspicuous. People watching me see someone with presumably a little superzoom compact. The sensor IQ is not a bit behind the 60D. The NEX menues are terrible, but the 6, at least, lets you adjust all important things together on the LCD without using menues (like the Canon Q button

Just a few things annoy me.

- Auto ISO limited to only ISO 3200 (would prefer possibility of ISO 800 - 1600).

- No possibilty to scrole through magnified picture parts in replay.

- No Custom modes available.

- Battery life.

To your questions:

1) Normally I use the new kit lens 16-50mm PZ. There are some bad reviews in the early days before auto RAW correction became standard in most programmes. Most users seem happy these days. For posters I would prefer using one of my primes, but below that you do not see much difference in real life. I would also prefer it to go to 80 or 100 mm but it is so small!

2) Centre point focussing only for me - EOS or NEX.

3) No problems with RAW in Lightroom (auto correction for lenses) JPEG isn't too bad either for small pictures. HDR looks good on the LCD, haven't tried it for real yet.

Ralph

 

[peruchox]

you may want to wait for the new Canon 100D. Is very small DSLR and you can use your existing Lenses.

 

[Amamba]

The SL1 / 100D is not that small... about 3/4 the size of a Rebel, which is still quite a bit larger than NEX. And with a large DSLR lens, there would be a small advantage in size / visibility but great disadvantage of a camera that's not easy to hold, especially with a sizeable lens.

My Rebel without battery grip and with 85 1/8 attached is a pretty compact package with killer IQ, but it is kind of limited with long focal length. With 17-50 the IQ is still very very good and the size is manageable, which is why I never got a shorter prime for it.

I am hoping that IQ of SEL50F18 will be good enough that I could get a really small setup without sacrificing the quality.

 

[jpr2]

...the sake of accuracy.

jpr2

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Comments and critique are always welcome!
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[viking79]

Amamba wrote:

I've used a Rebel of one kind of another for the last six years, refusing to go to a bigger body mainly because I travel with the camera a lot and Rebel fit quite nicely in a backpack.

I was however thinking of getting a smaller capable camera for a while. For some vacations, DSLR is just not a feasible option - too large, attracts too much attention etc.

So when I had an opportunity to buy a used Nex F3 with 18-55 kit I jumped at it. Has had this camera since late last Friday and I think I already learned quite a few things about it, most importantly how to customize the menu to make it more DSLR-like.

Still, there are many things I don't know or may be my familiarity with Canon DSLRs makes me use this camera in less than optimal way.

In no particular order:

1) The kit lens is nice but not as sharp as my Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS on Canon. As I understand there's not a single offering in E mount for a fast sharp zoom lens in "standard" range (between 15 and 85). Looks like the only alternative is to get a fast prime & leg zoom, or fall back on the kit lens when needed. (Which is what I intend to do, have a SEL50F1.8 delivered tomorrow). What do you do ?

Could just be a bad copy too. The 17-50mm is a better lens though. I will say a strong point of the NEX is its small size, the strong point of an f/2.8 lens is its large aperture. An f/2.8 zoom does not mix well with small size.

2) Is centerpoint / single point focus still the mode to use ? How accurate is peak focusing ?

I use flexible spot. A weakness with the NEX is you cannot change your focus point size like you can on many other mirrorless cameras (Samsung NX and Fuji X to name 2).

Focus peaking is overrated in my opinion, but is very useful for zone focusing or video. You have to understand how it works, it takes the video signal from the sensor and does an edge detect algorithm and overlays that image on the video signal, creating a marking of where the sharpest edges are.

The fault here is that it is using a lower resolution video signal and it depends on your cameras JPEG settings. Just like a viewfinder matte it is very good at aperture f/2 or f/2.8 and smaller, but at f/1.4 it can be hit or miss unless you adjust the settings, but if you make it sensitive enough to work at f/1.4, it might give false positives at other apertures.

My point here is that it can require some fiddling to work with large aperture lenses well and that fiddling is a pain on the Sony NEX. Not to mention it really interferes with infinity focus composition (hard to tell what your subject looks like as it is totally covered with focus peaking highlights. Sony needs a quick press button to turn it on and off so you can get focus and then compose without having to dig in menus.

That said, focus peaking is nice for manual focus, but any more I mostly use enlargement/zoom feature for more precise focus.

3) I shoot RAW, primarily. Other than Panoramic and Low Light, are there any other JPEG modes worth noting ? How good is the HDR ?

HDR is so-so, not nearly as good as HDR from RAW, and considering the RAW files have about 12 stops DR, you can under expose 2 to 4 stops and still end up with a nice JPEG after boosting the shadows.

Eric

 

[Amamba]

I keep running the kit lens in paces vs my Sigma and it seems to me a lot of the perceived softness is due to the absolutely horrendous (my personal opinion) processed JPEGs from NEX. They have fairly terrible contrast and somewhat bluish tint (this is all in Standard mode). Once I push the contrast up it starts looking much better. It's still no Sigma but then few zoom lenses are even on Canon DSLR side, at least when it comes to center sharpness.

SEL1850 still lacks resolution somewhat, imho, but it's OK. I wish I had Canon 18-55 IS on hands to check against, this is a "benchmark" for a good kit lens.

 

[zackiedawg]

It's worth spending some time adjusting your JPG output to suit your taste, rather than just leaving it at default settings. I've rarely been happy with how the JPGs come out of the camera at default settings, but once fine tuned to my taste, I can get very pleasing JPGs out of the camera every time, reliably.

First thing I'd suggest is trying one of the other color and contrast curves in the picture settings - many including myself find 'vivid' to be better than the standard setting. You may find 'vivid' though tends to oversaturate a bit - if you're into more natural colors - so setting saturation down to -1 seems to deliver for me very accurate colors, a little bit of saturation pop but not overdone, and the contrast curve is much better. I find contrast is fine at 0 in Vivid mode. I keep sharpness down to -1 too, because I don't like jaggies and JPG artifacts which can start to come out when using in-camera sharpening - I find a tendency to slightly oversharpen to my eye, and would rather tone it down and sharpen after the fact if needed.

Also, getting to know how DRO works, and using it, could be advantageous to your JPGs - the DRO setting in Sony cameras is significantly more advanced than the simple tone adjustments used in Canon cameras...the Apical pixel-by-pixel analysis does an excellent job of controlling highlights and shadows without destructive noise or flattening out contrast, since it is analyzing the photo down to the pixel level and making adjustments on that level, rather than just pulling up shadows or pulling down highlights like the more simplistic dynamic range features do.

I tend to disagree with some as to the usefulness of JPG modes on these cameras - try for yourself to determine what you think. But I heartily recommend taking advantage of the in-camera 6-frame multistacking modes - handheld twilight mode, or even better on the NEX6, download the MFNR (Multi-frame noise reduction) PlayMemories app, which does the same 6-frame stack but with more user control over camera settings. Also, in-camera HDR mode can be quite good and amazingly convenient and useful IF you learn how to use it properly - how you meter the initial shot and how much HDR strength you apply, are crucial to how your results will look. Leaving it on auto, and not taking special care to meter the scene for the highlights and mids, will result in mediocre to poor results with flat contrast or barely noticeable effects.

 

[Marla2008]

My 02 cents :

Focus Peaking is insanely powerful and good. If I were you I'd just buy a EF to NEX adapter and try using my 17-50/2.8. It's way better than either NEX kit lenses (I have both and like neither) and you should find it surprisingly easy to nail focus with Peaking (I suggest you try at home first to get some practice). I'm a long time Canon (and Nikon, and Pentax, and Minolta, and Fuji etc) DSLR user, and none of my DSLRs have seen any use since I went mirrorless about 18 months ago. I now have two NEX bodies and an army of adapters along with native lenses, and I'm thrilled with the output.

 

[Jefenator]

OP: you do know they have smart adapters that will allow you to use Canon EF mount lenses on a Sony NEX, right?

 

[pede59]

Amamba wrote:

I've used a Rebel of one kind of another for the last six years, refusing to go to a bigger body mainly because I travel with the camera a lot and Rebel fit quite nicely in a backpack.

I was however thinking of getting a smaller capable camera for a while. For some vacations, DSLR is just not a feasible option - too large, attracts too much attention etc.

So when I had an opportunity to buy a used Nex F3 with 18-55 kit I jumped at it. Has had this camera since late last Friday and I think I already learned quite a few things about it, most importantly how to customize the menu to make it more DSLR-like.

Still, there are many things I don't know or may be my familiarity with Canon DSLRs makes me use this camera in less than optimal way.

In no particular order:

1) The kit lens is nice but not as sharp as my Sigma 17-50/2.8 OS on Canon. As I understand there's not a single offering in E mount for a fast sharp zoom lens in "standard" range (between 15 and 85). Looks like the only alternative is to get a fast prime & leg zoom, or fall back on the kit lens when needed. (Which is what I intend to do, have a SEL50F1.8 delivered tomorrow). What do you do ?

I have not used the Sigma 17-50/2.8 myself. But i would say that the Sony kit lens is not worse than the kit lens i got originally with my Canon 7D (28-135mm) or even the EF-S 15-85mm. Of course those lenses have a larger focal range.

I use some prime lenses (50/1.8 and Sigma 19mm/30mm) plus some legacy lenses. My impression is that the Nex-7 sensor is a lot better than the 7D sensor. The one area where i see the biggest difference is DR.

2) Is centerpoint / single point focus still the mode to use ? How accurate is peak focusing ?

I use mostly flexible spot. Focus peaking is helpful but i rely mainly on focus assist (magnification of focus point when using manual focus adjustment). For me that is extremely helpful.

3) I shoot RAW, primarily. Other than Panoramic and Low Light, are there any other JPEG modes worth noting ? How good is the HDR ?

I do not use HDR, panorama, HHT, or AMB very often. Now that HDR is a little more flexible in terms of how many stops to cover it is actually more useful. But i am hearing that it cannot compete with raw bracketing and using external software.

Also because of the large DR the sensor delivers in a lot of cases using raw plus PP (I use LR) is sufficient.

Any other tips specific to Canon shooters ?

I liked the Canon 7D user interface an ergonomics of the body. Yet, i got used to the Nex-7 very quickly. Still, if i would work with large lenses most of the time i would probably prefer a 7D style body. The Nex-7 is perfect for small and light lenses.