-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Wanted: K5 equiv. E-M5 sensored 4/3's body
- Thread starter sderdiarian
- Start date
Bernard de Clairvaux
Senior Member
and you would never get enough people to do it. I remember someone had a compact camera and wished they had gotten the data back version. They sent the camera in and got one switched out. If the camera was 200.00, and db version was 225.00, her cost after fact was probably 150.00. Even if my numbers are slightly off, she should have just rebought the camera as it wasnt worth it. But it was a gift, with sentimental value, but still ....
They should make an E7 for between 1499.99 AND 1699.99 and believe me the remaining members who have HG glass already, and especially those with SHG glass would buy it. Don't make a million of them and you will be able to keep the price stable as they did with the E-5.
At this point I dont even think they would grumble. Heck, Some people would buy 2, and right away!
And the longer they wait, the more potential buyers they could lose. If the used lenses prices are suffering a bit, it is keeping people here. This is why if they intend to take a while to do it they should spell it out that it is coming. I believe that at this point those that are left deserve a show of good faith.
Olympus needed better sensors, and now they seem to have that sorted.
They needed better marketing, and at least now there is a visible presence.
Olympus, At least make one more 4/3rds camera. Micro 4/3rds will never be what many 4/3rds people want. And if their existing glass isn't at least as useable as it is now on E-620 or E-5 they will reluctantly move on, maybe it will be after last camera they have dies.
In hindsight, maybe the SHG glass should have been constant 2.8 aperture, as a tradeoff for smaller size.
Best Regards, Bernard
They should make an E7 for between 1499.99 AND 1699.99 and believe me the remaining members who have HG glass already, and especially those with SHG glass would buy it. Don't make a million of them and you will be able to keep the price stable as they did with the E-5.
At this point I dont even think they would grumble. Heck, Some people would buy 2, and right away!
And the longer they wait, the more potential buyers they could lose. If the used lenses prices are suffering a bit, it is keeping people here. This is why if they intend to take a while to do it they should spell it out that it is coming. I believe that at this point those that are left deserve a show of good faith.
Olympus needed better sensors, and now they seem to have that sorted.
They needed better marketing, and at least now there is a visible presence.
Olympus, At least make one more 4/3rds camera. Micro 4/3rds will never be what many 4/3rds people want. And if their existing glass isn't at least as useable as it is now on E-620 or E-5 they will reluctantly move on, maybe it will be after last camera they have dies.
In hindsight, maybe the SHG glass should have been constant 2.8 aperture, as a tradeoff for smaller size.
Best Regards, Bernard
Brian Steele
Leading Member
I'd rather upgrade my E620 or E520 than spend $1499 to $1699 for a larger camera that is not going to suit my needs at all due to its size.
Rriley
Forum Pro
- Messages
- 20,877
- Solutions
- 1
- Reaction score
- 474
thats precisely why I suggest dumping 'E' nomenclature
an Ex at US1700 it will be way overpriced, but as you mention 'motherboard upgrade'. Consider OMD came in at $1k, it had everything but the mount and the mirrorbox, and had an EVF added to the cost.
I think an SLR can be put together for $1k that bridges all these size weight issues but is sealed and has a large OVF, and I think they would evaporate into the market reasonably quickly to make it worthwhile.
Chris Mak
Veteran Member
I'm also hoping for a compact DSLR release with the new Sony sensor.
I keep reading about market analysis, and how it's fruitless to try and compete with Canon and Nikon, and that a company is there to make a profit. But that kind of reasoning would put évery camera maker off, and pentax might stop making Dslr cameras as well.
If Olympus can break even on an E7, they would at least gain credibility. Let them make their profit on mirror less, but nót releasing an E7, and for that matter, an E-xx, only deepens the hole they are digging for 4/3 themselves.
I said this before, and I am more convinced of it now: they should eíther offer support for 4/3 with an updated Dslr, E-x ánd E-xx, ór they should drop support officially, and stop producing 4/3 lenses and remove them from their catalogue.
If I take myself as an example: I owned three zuiko SHG lenses, and was planning to use them permanently, and replace my Dslr with every significant update.
Now I've sold the E5 and two of the SHG lenses, and will probably also sell the last one if I can.
Olympus is to me now an unreliable company, that causes a growing sense of irritation due to their lack of commitment, and I will not buy any of their products again, unless they release an E7 before next summer.
After that, Olympus will be a company to avoid for me personally.
Losing credibility might harm a company more that minimal profit on a Dslr.
Olympus makes better lenses than Pentax, and the lenses are the réal investment in a camera brand, they remain. Still, I hold pentax in higher regard now and will stick with them, because, even when going through similar difficult circumstances that Olympus has gone through, with the sell off to Hoya that had no real interest in the camera market, they still hung on, and kept their Dslr line alive, whilst expanding to mirror less.
4/3 could have succeeded due to the phenomenal lenses, but Olympus will soon be a company to avoid if they don't release an E-7
Chris
I keep reading about market analysis, and how it's fruitless to try and compete with Canon and Nikon, and that a company is there to make a profit. But that kind of reasoning would put évery camera maker off, and pentax might stop making Dslr cameras as well.
If Olympus can break even on an E7, they would at least gain credibility. Let them make their profit on mirror less, but nót releasing an E7, and for that matter, an E-xx, only deepens the hole they are digging for 4/3 themselves.
I said this before, and I am more convinced of it now: they should eíther offer support for 4/3 with an updated Dslr, E-x ánd E-xx, ór they should drop support officially, and stop producing 4/3 lenses and remove them from their catalogue.
If I take myself as an example: I owned three zuiko SHG lenses, and was planning to use them permanently, and replace my Dslr with every significant update.
Now I've sold the E5 and two of the SHG lenses, and will probably also sell the last one if I can.
Olympus is to me now an unreliable company, that causes a growing sense of irritation due to their lack of commitment, and I will not buy any of their products again, unless they release an E7 before next summer.
After that, Olympus will be a company to avoid for me personally.
Losing credibility might harm a company more that minimal profit on a Dslr.
Olympus makes better lenses than Pentax, and the lenses are the réal investment in a camera brand, they remain. Still, I hold pentax in higher regard now and will stick with them, because, even when going through similar difficult circumstances that Olympus has gone through, with the sell off to Hoya that had no real interest in the camera market, they still hung on, and kept their Dslr line alive, whilst expanding to mirror less.
4/3 could have succeeded due to the phenomenal lenses, but Olympus will soon be a company to avoid if they don't release an E-7
Chris
Last edited:
TrapperJohn
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 9,677
- Solutions
- 3
- Reaction score
- 12,288
And that would be to fix the ZD AF situation on, say, a slightly larger OM-D, with PDAF on sensor. They could fix a few other things as well, like the 1/4000 limit on the EM5, which can get a bit irritating at times.
Sony brought out PDAF on sensor with the NEX6, and shortly after Sony announced this capability, Oly released a statement saying that they would support the SHG glass with a future body in some indeterminate form. That might be coincidence, but it's more likely that Oly was working with early versions of the PDAF Exmor sensor, and figured out that they could fix ZD AF with it.
Being realistic, the E5 was a slow seller, while the EM5 is flying off the shelves, and bringing in a lot of new customers. Olympus has to sell systems to stay in business. Does anyone really think they will invest R&D time in a large reduced sensor DSLR body, when they have led the charge to kill that market? Judging by the dramatic plunge in the number of APS DSLR's being released, it looks like they're succeeding.
The conclusion seems obvious: an OMD-Pro, slightly larger than the EM5, with PDAF on sensor that fixes both ZD AF and C-AF. That would give one access to both the exquisite HG and SHG glass, plus the new M43 primes that are working out nicely.
The only thing they can't bring over from the E5 would be the OVF, and after six months of using the EM5, I really don't mind not having my E3's OVF.
Sony brought out PDAF on sensor with the NEX6, and shortly after Sony announced this capability, Oly released a statement saying that they would support the SHG glass with a future body in some indeterminate form. That might be coincidence, but it's more likely that Oly was working with early versions of the PDAF Exmor sensor, and figured out that they could fix ZD AF with it.
Being realistic, the E5 was a slow seller, while the EM5 is flying off the shelves, and bringing in a lot of new customers. Olympus has to sell systems to stay in business. Does anyone really think they will invest R&D time in a large reduced sensor DSLR body, when they have led the charge to kill that market? Judging by the dramatic plunge in the number of APS DSLR's being released, it looks like they're succeeding.
The conclusion seems obvious: an OMD-Pro, slightly larger than the EM5, with PDAF on sensor that fixes both ZD AF and C-AF. That would give one access to both the exquisite HG and SHG glass, plus the new M43 primes that are working out nicely.
The only thing they can't bring over from the E5 would be the OVF, and after six months of using the EM5, I really don't mind not having my E3's OVF.
They will not release E-7. I don't think anybody who buys m4/3 cares about whether there will be E-7 or not. I do not think only Olympus produce phenomenal lenses. If I had to buy new system from the scratch I would avoid Olympus. They still struggle financially and do not openly share their vision (if they have one). And they are notorious in changing directions.
However I have many 4/3 lenses and I tend to stick to it for some time, but if I change one day, I change the brand.
However I have many 4/3 lenses and I tend to stick to it for some time, but if I change one day, I change the brand.
I have to admit that I am less convinced today that there will be a E-7 than I was 6 month ago. However, I personally would probably not buy an E-7. Several things keep me with Olympus – (1) I like the E-30 and it's still fun to use even if I get frustrated with that noisy sensor on occasion. (2) There is no mFT body that tempts me at this time. (3) Olympus service which seems to have remained good even with the consolidation of service facilities here in NA is a very BIG consideration. (I have to admit that some stories make me concerned about their current and future QC though.) (4) The equally bad stories about service experiences from Panasonic, Sony and now Nikon also keeps me from moving on (there are some nice bargains out there at the moment that are tempting.)
Just my thoughts to add on to what you n others have said. Oly 's goal is to design the new body to equal or better the AF of Nikon/canon products. That's the only way Oly will get to keep its present 4/3 owners n convert other DSLR users to Oly and gain more mkt shares. If they are not able to achieve this then they might as well stay out and focus only on m4/3.
My gut feel tells me Oly is going to make it becos I am looking to a E 7 body but smaller than E5. Just living in hope.
Ric
greendave
Forum Enthusiast
Sure, though not to the degree of the E-3 or E-620. In any case, when you're the No. 4 or 5 player in the DSLR market, you have a much slimmer margin for error.
rovingtim
Veteran Member
Yes. The E1 has a much better (and metal) build and is therefore, heavier. Would you want to give up the E1 build for a 100 grams?
When the E1 was first released the only two lenses available were the 14-54 and the 50-200. The 50 mm F2 and the 300 mm F2.8 came later. (and the 150 is in there somewhere ... does anyone remember?) Consumer lenses were released around the E300.
At that time the weatherproof lenses were simply called 'pro lenses' and the rest 'standard lenses'. It was only later Olympus decided the 300mm was SHG and the 50-200 HG. These new designations occurred after the 'shakeup' in Oly's development department.
The first real monster SHG (the 90-250) was released with the equally monstrous body: the E3. When your unique selling point is smaller size than everyone else the obvious marketing move was to make a bodies and lenses about the same size and weight as FF camera bodies and lenses. It was a bold move.
Purchasers of these wonders ended up carrying all the same weight and size of FF cameras while gaining all the advantages of a sensor a 1/4 of the size (cleaner corners ... sometimes).
I just can't think why it wasn't a slam dunk sales success.
CharlesB58
Veteran Member
By posts by those who really do think that just dropping an EM5 sensor into the E7 body will reap huge profits, etc.
Face it: Olympus is giving no intention of catering to such short term thinking. Some of us here simply can't take being confronted with the realities of a business basing their decisions on what they feel is best for their long term financial security. (BTW, some folks here really know how to get Olympus to listen to their opinions by calling them buffoons or other insults for not doing what think think they should do. I can see the emergency board meeting now: The nervously sweating VP of Marketing mops his brow and stutters, "Hirai-san, 3 people on DPR Olympus SLR Talk have called us 'buffoons' again. What should we do?" President Hirai gives his best Toshiro Mifune scowl, then directs all department to focus their entire efforts on putting the EM5 sensor into the next production run of E5's and painting the faceplate with "E7", then producing a marketing blitz that will entice the masses to snap up the great new upgraded flagship. They will do this just to avoid being called buffoons. Because, you know, the Japanese are very big on saving face and being called buffoons is a sure fire way to get them to act.)
If I were a marketer for Olympus monitoring these forums, here is what I see: About 10% of posters insist that they will leave Olympus if a new flagship model doesn't come out in the near future. They state that just putting the EM5 sensor in the existing E5 body will get them to buy the camera. I check my notes on the E5 release and see that many people, in fact some of these same people, complained about how the E5 was a marginal upgrade (note, they called us buffoons back then too). I also note that the majority of these people already own current HG and SHG lenses, and have given no indication they want to buy anything more than a new body for those lenses. So they really only offer the potential of buying a new body (not that profitable at the price point they demand), so I can't consider the potential sales of lenses and accessories as part of the overall revenue flow from most of them. I sift through some other data and see that well over half of the people who post on this subject indicate that if Olympus comes out with a solution to using 4/3 lenses on m4/3 as effectively as on their current dslrs, they are willing to switch to m4/3. The rest fall into 2 groups for the most part: those who are happy with their current kits, or those who have bought m4/3 and either use it exclusively or in conjunction with 4/3 gear.
Hmmmm. If I were an Olympus marketer I would see that as much as 75% of the existing customer base represented on this forum give various indications of what will keep them with Olympus. I find that for them, staying with Olympus does not depend entirely on short term release of the E7, and that of those 1 in 10 customers who do demand that, nearly all of them won't buy anything else other than a new body So, what would my recommendation be?
It sure as heck wouldn't be to put any resources into making 10% of my customer base happy if it meant pulling resources from something with greater long term sales potential. If someone thinks otherwise...well, that's probably why they don't work in marketing for Olympus or any other camera manufacturer. LOL
Seriously, anyone who pays attention to the history of Olympus knows that they are willing to face short term loss of customers for the sake of developing a newer, larger market by strengthening and improving a product line that they have innovated. They did this with the OM line, despite people complaining about them not being "true pro quality" cameras (and they weren't, depending on what criteria was applied). They stuck with the OM design philosophy even when people "jumped ship" due to lack of certain features that could be found on Canon, Nikon, Minolta and Pentax higher end models. And yes, they made some muckery of things at times (The OM10: really?) along with flashes of brilliance (multispot metering on the OM4).
Personally, I want more from any 4/3 dslr I would buy than just dropping the EM5 sensor into the E5 body and calling it an upgrade (isn't that the sort of thing people complained about when the made minimal upgrades with the E5?) I'd love to see a "dream E7" of an E620 or slightly larger body (I prefer the ergonomics of the E520, having never used an E1), the next generation from the EM5 sensor, weather-sealing, 5 axis IBIS, competitive AF across the board and so forth. Would I buy an E7 if all they did was drop an EM5 sensor into it? I might as a short term solution, but not with the idea that it will justify continuing to use big dslrs and equally big lenses. I'm speaking of my personal preference for smaller, less obtrusive cameras because of the subject matter I photograph and the clients I work for. I'm using an E520 professionally, so from a sensor performance standpoint, an E5 would be a major upgrade, if all I wanted was better high ISO performance. (I've considered buying an E5 as a temporary solution while I build an EM5 kit).
If anyone thinks I'm being an Olympus fanboy, think again. I'm currently considering switching to a Sony SLT because of a combination of sensor performance, features, and lens selection.
Face it: Olympus is giving no intention of catering to such short term thinking. Some of us here simply can't take being confronted with the realities of a business basing their decisions on what they feel is best for their long term financial security. (BTW, some folks here really know how to get Olympus to listen to their opinions by calling them buffoons or other insults for not doing what think think they should do. I can see the emergency board meeting now: The nervously sweating VP of Marketing mops his brow and stutters, "Hirai-san, 3 people on DPR Olympus SLR Talk have called us 'buffoons' again. What should we do?" President Hirai gives his best Toshiro Mifune scowl, then directs all department to focus their entire efforts on putting the EM5 sensor into the next production run of E5's and painting the faceplate with "E7", then producing a marketing blitz that will entice the masses to snap up the great new upgraded flagship. They will do this just to avoid being called buffoons. Because, you know, the Japanese are very big on saving face and being called buffoons is a sure fire way to get them to act.)
If I were a marketer for Olympus monitoring these forums, here is what I see: About 10% of posters insist that they will leave Olympus if a new flagship model doesn't come out in the near future. They state that just putting the EM5 sensor in the existing E5 body will get them to buy the camera. I check my notes on the E5 release and see that many people, in fact some of these same people, complained about how the E5 was a marginal upgrade (note, they called us buffoons back then too). I also note that the majority of these people already own current HG and SHG lenses, and have given no indication they want to buy anything more than a new body for those lenses. So they really only offer the potential of buying a new body (not that profitable at the price point they demand), so I can't consider the potential sales of lenses and accessories as part of the overall revenue flow from most of them. I sift through some other data and see that well over half of the people who post on this subject indicate that if Olympus comes out with a solution to using 4/3 lenses on m4/3 as effectively as on their current dslrs, they are willing to switch to m4/3. The rest fall into 2 groups for the most part: those who are happy with their current kits, or those who have bought m4/3 and either use it exclusively or in conjunction with 4/3 gear.
Hmmmm. If I were an Olympus marketer I would see that as much as 75% of the existing customer base represented on this forum give various indications of what will keep them with Olympus. I find that for them, staying with Olympus does not depend entirely on short term release of the E7, and that of those 1 in 10 customers who do demand that, nearly all of them won't buy anything else other than a new body So, what would my recommendation be?
It sure as heck wouldn't be to put any resources into making 10% of my customer base happy if it meant pulling resources from something with greater long term sales potential. If someone thinks otherwise...well, that's probably why they don't work in marketing for Olympus or any other camera manufacturer. LOL
Seriously, anyone who pays attention to the history of Olympus knows that they are willing to face short term loss of customers for the sake of developing a newer, larger market by strengthening and improving a product line that they have innovated. They did this with the OM line, despite people complaining about them not being "true pro quality" cameras (and they weren't, depending on what criteria was applied). They stuck with the OM design philosophy even when people "jumped ship" due to lack of certain features that could be found on Canon, Nikon, Minolta and Pentax higher end models. And yes, they made some muckery of things at times (The OM10: really?) along with flashes of brilliance (multispot metering on the OM4).
Personally, I want more from any 4/3 dslr I would buy than just dropping the EM5 sensor into the E5 body and calling it an upgrade (isn't that the sort of thing people complained about when the made minimal upgrades with the E5?) I'd love to see a "dream E7" of an E620 or slightly larger body (I prefer the ergonomics of the E520, having never used an E1), the next generation from the EM5 sensor, weather-sealing, 5 axis IBIS, competitive AF across the board and so forth. Would I buy an E7 if all they did was drop an EM5 sensor into it? I might as a short term solution, but not with the idea that it will justify continuing to use big dslrs and equally big lenses. I'm speaking of my personal preference for smaller, less obtrusive cameras because of the subject matter I photograph and the clients I work for. I'm using an E520 professionally, so from a sensor performance standpoint, an E5 would be a major upgrade, if all I wanted was better high ISO performance. (I've considered buying an E5 as a temporary solution while I build an EM5 kit).
If anyone thinks I'm being an Olympus fanboy, think again. I'm currently considering switching to a Sony SLT because of a combination of sensor performance, features, and lens selection.
Darrell500
Senior Member
I may be one of the few that still believes that Olympus will release another 43rds body and maybe two. All the naysayers are not much different then while we were waiting for an E5, it's simply not time for a new release yet.
As many have stated before me, Olympus already has stellar lenses now give us the new sensor and were good for a long long time.
As many have stated before me, Olympus already has stellar lenses now give us the new sensor and were good for a long long time.
Rriley
Forum Pro
- Messages
- 20,877
- Solutions
- 1
- Reaction score
- 474
impossible to evaluate since Im never likely to see a Gh3 unless I buy one. But what you are saying is truly subjective anyway.
At what point is the build strong enough? At what point did you decide something was too heavy, arent they all unreasonably bulky and heavy against OMD? Why are some plastic SLRs heavier than metal jacket OMD? I dont see the question posed in such a way as to provide an answer with clarity. Im not even sure thats deliberate thoughtful or persuasive
you left off lenses, for some its a subtle difference but still you were careful to leave it out, what makes me think theres a reason that FF optics on the same are going to 'lighter'
so far we've tallied the grip and the lenses
equally a number of APSC bodies of the same genre are heavier than some of the FF bodies, I cant imagine why you havent been over there at competitor forums bitching to them about this and lauding E1
so far we've tallied the grip the lenses and bodies
I have it that all one needs to do is saw the edges off
people usually delight in sarcasm,
..........then you turn up
And it really didn't take that long to put out a good selection of very nice lenses. In the short space of around five years Olympus created 24 lenses, 2 teleconverters and an extension tube.
announced June 24, 2003:
announced June 24, 2003:
- ZUIKO DIGITAL 11-22mm (22-44mm) 1:2.8-3.5
- ZUIKO DIGITAL 14-54mm (28-108mm) 1:2.8-3.5
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 50mm (100mm) Macro 1:2.0
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 50-200mm (100-400mm) 1:2.8-3.5
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 300mm (600mm) 1:2.8
- EC-14 teleconverter
- EX-25 extension tube
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 7-14mm (14-28mm) 1:4.0
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED14-45mm (28-90mm)
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 40-150mm (80-300mm) 1:3.5-4.5
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 150mm (300mm) 1:2.0
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 14-35mm (28-70mm) 1:2.0 SWD
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 35-100mm (70-200mm) 1:2.0
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 90-250mm (180-500mm) 1:2.8
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 8mm (16mm) 1:3.5 Fisheye
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 17.5 - 45 mm (35-90mm) F3.5 - F5.6
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 18-180mm (36-360mm) 1:3.5-6.3
- ZUIKO DIGITAL 35mm (70mm) Macro 1:3.5
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 14-42mm (28-84mm) 1:3.5-5.6
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 40-150mm II (80-300mm) 1:4.0-5.6
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 70-300mm (140-600mm) 1:4.0-5.6
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-60mm (24-120mm) 1:2.8-4.0 SWD
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 50-200mm (100-400mm) 1:2.8-3.5 SWD
- EC-20 teleconverter
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 25mm (50mm) 1:2.8
- ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 9-18mm (18-36mm) 1:4.0-5.6
- Zuiko Digital 14-54mm (28-104mm) 1:2.8-3.5 II
rovingtim
Veteran Member
Oly did an excellent job with lenses in the beginning. It's what got a lot of people hooked on Oly.
My initial point was that when the E1 was released (two when it was first released), there weren't a lot of lenses available so it was never going to be a best seller.
My initial point was that when the E1 was released (two when it was first released), there weren't a lot of lenses available so it was never going to be a best seller.
rovingtim
Veteran Member
Your argument makes just as little sense. If measureable lightness is an issue, then Oly should have gone bankrupt years ago because many of their lenses are solidly made and relatively heavy.
... when it became the same size and weight as the competition when Oly promised SMALLER and LIGHTER. It was the stated selling point of the 4/3rds system.
E4XX 435 grams
EM5 425 grams
Not much in it in this particular objective measurement. So, to answer your question, no.
I defended the E1 when it was a going concern. As to what the competition did, they weren't promising LIGHTER and SMALLER as a unique selling point of their systems.
Nils lveby
Member
That is the one for me!
Have a lot of glass and I do quite a bit of outdoor stuff. like the spec! i will get one
Have a lot of glass and I do quite a bit of outdoor stuff. like the spec! i will get one
Big Ga
Forum Pro
It may have been announced then, but there is no way in hell that came out in 2005!!
Big Ga
Forum Pro
What 'dramatic plunge' ??
Last time I checked with Nikon, they'd just updated the lower end with the D3200 a few months ago, the D5200 has just come out a week or so ago, the D7200 is imminent, and they still might release a higher end pro DX body. That doesn't sound like a 'dramatic plunge' to me.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum