Do people miss VR on Nikon 24-70mm 2.8?

In-lens VR is better. It can be tailored for each individual lens, and because it is in the lens you can see the effect in the viewfinder which aids focussing.

I don't know why it is not in the 24~70 specifically but bear in mind it can be counter-productive. If you rely on it for slower shutter speeds you can get subject movement blur instead. It can also affect bokeh, though that wouldn't stop me using it if I had it. It will also add to the bulk and cost of the lens. In this range I use a 24~120mm f4 VR, but that's for the range and not for the VR. VR is a bonus in this range, not an essential tool.
 
slimandy wrote:

In-lens VR is better. It can be tailored for each individual lens, and because it is in the lens you can see the effect in the viewfinder which aids focussing.
Having used the Pentax in camera system for many years, I have to disagree as it worked very well giving at least 3 stops of stabilisation. Also, you can upload lens information to the camera so that the in camera VR can be suitably tailored for each lens.
I don't know why it is not in the 24~70 specifically but bear in mind it can be counter-productive. If you rely on it for slower shutter speeds you can get subject movement blur instead.
The same can be said for any VR lens.
It can also affect bokeh, though that wouldn't stop me using it if I had it. It will also add to the bulk and cost of the lens.
Agreed, but in camera SR wouldn't.
In this range I use a 24~120mm f4 VR, but that's for the range and not for the VR. VR is a bonus in this range, not an essential tool.
In body SR is still a workable solution and can be used if required or turned off if required, just like in lens VR. It wouldn't add to the size and cost of the lens and would mean that you would have the option to use it on every Nikon (or for that matter non Nikon) lens ever produced!
 
Why do lenses have an AF motor? The old AFD lenses worked fine for me!!!


Goodlight
Ranamo
 
Not in the sense we have never had it in this lens, and it was not around anyway for SLR's 13 years ago.

One suggestion is in camera VR/IS enables very slight movement of the sensor along the lens optical axis, which could compromise image quality with fast aperture lenses with very narrow depth of focus at the sensor.
 
I don't miss it in my 24-70mm. I tend to use it only at larger focal lengths (>100mm)since I think it's much more effective and also usable in that range. Never used the VR on my former 16-35mm (have a 14-24mn now), but that might be just personal.

In reply to in-body VR, in-lens VR is more effective and can be tailored for each individual lens. I managed to get perfectly sharp shots with my 70-200mm VRII where a good friend failed with a Pentax at identical focal lengths and shutter speed at a car show. In-body VR is not bad at all, but embedded within a lens it seems to be more effective.
 
darkhorseSG wrote:

And why can't Nikon/Canon put VR in the camera body itself, just like an OM-D? In-Body stabilization will free the lenses from having a VR - hopefully leading to better optics, lower weight and lower prices.
I believe that optical IS is better than IBIS for many of the same reasons people have mentioned, but think about this. Take a long lens like a 500mm. Any vibration is going to translate into large movements of the camera/lens. There is a limit to how much the sensor can move to correct this because it's location is back near the focal plain. The optical method placed the optics that need to move far from that focal plain so the correction needed is much smaller.

IBIS (in-body stabilization) is a one sized fits all method with no focal length being optimized. In-lens VR/IS allows the maker to have a correction of movements to match the lens focual length and speed.

When you're are looking through the lens at the subject, say a small bird on a limb, IBIS does not stabilize that view. That bird might be wobbling around such that you don't know if it is in focus to accurately framed. In lens IS locks down the optics so the bird freezes momentarily allowing all the above to occur.

Think about lenses like the Sigma 150-500 and others with optical in-lens method. People with Sony and Pentax cameras also use this lens. What method of IS do they normally turn off and what do they leave on? As it turns out, most turn off the native IBIS and leave on the in-lens stabilization. There's a reason. They also see the advantages when both are available both in view and end result.

The big problem I see out there is the over use of stabilization and novices never learning good hand holding methods and shooting technique. I know that I can and I'd guess most seasoned photographers here can hold steadier at just as long shutter durations as many novice photographers trust to IS/VR. All it takes is good learned shooting techniques. IS/VR is not a panacea for poor technique. It's just an added tool when you're using good technique. Many lenses in the wide to normal zoom ranges just don't need it. It can add weight and can add to randomly held poorer images at times, especially at higher shutter speeds. Many jobbing pros don't want or need that.

If the image is truly important and important enough it has to be tack sharp say for a magazine cover, you're going to do better on a tripod and often with professional lighting. The 24-70 f/2.8 by both Nikon and now Canon was designed for those photographers. The 24-120 f/4 VR was designed for the rest of us.

That all said, as I get older, I'm learning that more and more, even with good holding technique I can benefit from VR in appropriate situations, appropriate being the key word here. Inappropriate might be when I have the time to use a tripod on a still subject. I've even learned to love the VR on my 16-35 f/4 in certain circumstances, but the lens still defaults to VR off as it does on the rest of my VR equiped lenses.

You might wish to read Thom Hogan's writeup on VR. VR 101 for a better written explaination. :)

http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

See if this doesn't better help you on this subject. *Great question and good luck.* Have fun.
 
Lance B wrote:
slimandy wrote:

In-lens VR is better. It can be tailored for each individual lens, and because it is in the lens you can see the effect in the viewfinder which aids focussing.
Having used the Pentax in camera system for many years, I have to disagree as it worked very well giving at least 3 stops of stabilisation. Also, you can upload lens information to the camera so that the in camera VR can be suitably tailored for each lens.
I don't know why it is not in the 24~70 specifically but bear in mind it can be counter-productive. If you rely on it for slower shutter speeds you can get subject movement blur instead.
The same can be said for any VR lens.
It can also affect bokeh, though that wouldn't stop me using it if I had it. It will also add to the bulk and cost of the lens.
Agreed, but in camera SR wouldn't.
In this range I use a 24~120mm f4 VR, but that's for the range and not for the VR. VR is a bonus in this range, not an essential tool.
In body SR is still a workable solution and can be used if required or turned off if required, just like in lens VR. It wouldn't add to the size and cost of the lens and would mean that you would have the option to use it on every Nikon (or for that matter non Nikon) lens ever produced!
Nikon seem to think otherwise, or at least they think in-lens VR is better, as I do......

https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23997/kw/in body VR
 
slimandy wrote:
Lance B wrote:

In body SR is still a workable solution and can be used if required or turned off if required, just like in lens VR. It wouldn't add to the size and cost of the lens and would mean that you would have the option to use it on every Nikon (or for that matter non Nikon) lens ever produced!
Nikon seem to think otherwise, or at least they think in-lens VR is better, as I do......

https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23997/kw/in body VR

Well: Nikon *has* to publish it this way ... b/c their marketing has to support the way their engineers (and marketing people) decided to walk on ... Rule 1: never think that marketing people tell you the truth! Neither side!
I walked the same way as Lance: came from Pentax (still have all that gear), but the D700's capabilities overweigthed the K20D/K5 at a certain moment ... went to Nikon ... including - of course - the D800. But: as Lance I really doubt that in-lens VR is better than in-body VR. At least not on the noticable level for the general purpose photographer! (I am not quoting on long-tele-lenses for wildlife photography: I have not experience with those) If the gain from VR is 3 or 3.5 f-stops ... does it really make the difference? Of course a stabilized picture in the viewfinder is nice ... but: it does not make the photo better!
And, on the other hands: in-body VR allows very lovely small lenses. That's the reason why I still haven't sold yet my Pentax FA Limiteds (full frame!) lenses. Esp. the FA 43 Ltd is crying for a compact FF body with in-body VR.
I am about to buy the 1.8G/85mm by Nikon - no VR in there. But I will definitively miss it, as I am used to it from my Pentax FA 77/1.8 Ltd, due to Pentax's in-body VR!
I would not mind to have a Nikon dSLR body to *also* be capable of in-body VR!
SpaceDoc
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Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Not in the sense we have never had it in this lens, and it was not around anyway for SLR's 13 years ago.

One suggestion is in camera VR/IS enables very slight movement of the sensor along the lens optical axis, which could compromise image quality with fast aperture lenses with very narrow depth of focus at the sensor.
Very good point, Leonard!!
SpaceDoc
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Nikkor AF-S 24-70/2.8 is the professional lens for the reportage using. Reportage is usualy with the moving subjects and the focal lenghts 24-70mm means that you can use the VR for the times about 1/60 s., 1/30 s., 1/10 s., 1/4 s., .... Such shutter speeds cannot be used for reportage using because the people would be blurred by their own movement. 24-70/2.8 is fast lens and FX body is high ISO capable, so you can use 1/100 s. or 1/200 s. everytimes and you use the external flash very often.

So you do not need VR. And FX f/2.8 zoom has too big optical elements and stabilization such big beam of rays is the additional problem. Professional photograpers do not call for VR by 24-70/2.8.
 
ForeignerOnEarth wrote:

Nikkor AF-S 24-70/2.8 is the professional lens for the reportage using. Reportage is usualy with the moving subjects and the focal lenghts 24-70mm means that you can use the VR for the times about 1/60 s., 1/30 s., 1/10 s., 1/4 s., .... Such shutter speeds cannot be used for reportage using because the people would be blurred by their own movement. 24-70/2.8 is fast lens and FX body is high ISO capable, so you can use 1/100 s. or 1/200 s. everytimes and you use the external flash very often.
Well: I think this should be reconsidered with the modern extreme high megapixel cameras! You might want to have the - steady - background as sharp as possible!
So you do not need VR. And FX f/2.8 zoom has too big optical elements and stabilization such big beam of rays is the additional problem. Professional photograpers do not call for VR by 24-70/2.8.
Well: the 2.8/70-200 VR2 also has big lens elements to be moved by VR, hasn't it? :-)
And: whatever' professional photographers' are! And what the 'do' and 'don't'! ;-))
Ie. Henri Cartier Bresson never ever used vibration reduction! :-))
SpaceDoc
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SpaceDoc wrote:
slimandy wrote:
Lance B wrote:

In body SR is still a workable solution and can be used if required or turned off if required, just like in lens VR. It wouldn't add to the size and cost of the lens and would mean that you would have the option to use it on every Nikon (or for that matter non Nikon) lens ever produced!
Nikon seem to think otherwise, or at least they think in-lens VR is better, as I do......

https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/23997/kw/in body VR

Well: Nikon *has* to publish it this way ... b/c their marketing has to support the way their engineers (and marketing people) decided to walk on ... Rule 1: never think that marketing people tell you the truth! Neither side!
Why didn't they just go the other way and market it that way? Why did Canon not do that too?
 
Not at all.
 
Coming from the Sony A900, I do miss VR on the f/2.8 zooms and on the f/1.4 primes indeed. It is a very useful function.

To respond to other comments: it could be that in lens VR is more efficient, especially on long lenses, but having used built-in stab with a 500mm on the A900 I can confirm that it works even at these focal lengths.
 
lenses. However, you do get a lot of torque from the Nikon cameras that still have the motors and my 80-200 focuses pretty quickly on my D200 and 800.
 
You can't miss something you never had - you work with what you have. I've owned the Nikkor 24-70mm for four years using iit on a D300, D3 & D3S and never wished it it had VR.
 
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