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Something to consider if buying an Epson printer...

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Andrew2468

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Yesterday I contacted Epson Europe to see about getting my R2400 serviced, I can't get a clear nozzle check. I don't use Epson ink. They will not service the printer unless I buy and install a set of genuine carts!

It was an online chat session and here is the transcript (with the name of the Epson guy hidden and my name changed to "Me")

11:36:34 : Connected to etalk.epson-europe.com

11:36:34 : Session ID: 1327288

11:36:34 : Me: Initial Question/Comment: I have an R2400 printer and can't get a clear nozzle check. I'm wondering if it needs a service. Please can you give me (or email me) contact details for approved servicing in Xxxxxxx UK. thanks Me

11:36:39 : System: Epson rep has joined this session!

11:36:39 : Epson rep: Thank you for contacting Epson's UK Customer Interaction Centre. My name is Epson rep

11:37:25 : Me: hi

11:37:54 : Epson rep: Hi Me. One moment please.

11:39:29 : Epson rep: We offer a fixed price repair service directly from ourselves for this printer. Are you using Epson inks?

11:40:58 : Me: Not at present. Does that matter?

11:41:55 : Epson rep: Yes we would need Epson inks in the printer to carry out a service, has the printer been modified in any way, such as a continuous ink system?

11:43:48 : Me: It's not been modified. Why would I need epson ink if the printer is going to be cleaned? - that's a substantial cost to me!

11:45:10 : Epson rep: For a engineer to fully service the printer and ensure the printer functions correctly we would need Epson inks installed as we cannot guarantee the use of non genuine inks.

11:51:29 : Me: Can we come to some compromise here maybe? I'm fairly confident the ink is ok - Jon Cone ink - and the printer has been working fine with it until this last few days. Would it be possible for Epson to carry out the normal servicing and if a clear nozzle check still did not result, then I would accept that (and pay the fixed price of course).

11:57:21 : Epson rep: Ok we would need to diagnose there is a fault with the printer by having the Epson ink cartridges installed as this is part of diagnostics

11:58:01 : Epson rep: We can't carry out the service without the Epson inks installed first

12:01:06 : Me: That's rather restrictive. What part of the servicing needs epson ink rather than any other ink, please?

12:04:42 : Epson rep: Having the Epson inks will help diagnose the issue, Epson inks contain cleaning agents to help unblock the nozzles in the print head

12:05:02 : Epson rep: Epson cannot guarantee the viscosity of non-genuine Epson ink as it may be thicker and over a period of time this may cause the fine nozzles in the print head to become blocked which could cause possible head damage.

12:11:58 : Me: I appreciate epson can't speak for other people's ink, but I'm not asking you to guarantee anything. I just want it cleaned. Please can you give me the fixed price amount and let me contact whoever does the servicing.

12:13:58 : Epson rep: We would book this for you but would need to run through full diagnostics first of all by having the Epson inks installed. You can try contacting Equinox service centre to see if they can provide a service for you on 01684 853116.

12:20:52 : Me: Thanks for the phone no. Re. insistence on epson ink for epson servicing, please can you escalate this to an epson customer relations manager. I have paid for a custom colour profile for my ink, so putting epson ink in is likely to mess things up. It is very restrictive of you to refuse servicing just because the ink is not epson. I don't have approx £100 just lying around to spend on ink I don't need or want. You haven't given any valid reason why you can't service it with my ink (or no ink at all if you can use flush fluid. Please record this as a complaint.

12:29:49 : Epson rep: I have spoken with my supervisor and I would recommend contacting Equinox directly as we do not encourage the use of non genuine or services with the non genuine ink cartridges

12:33:13 : Me: I'd still like this raised as a complaint please, on the grounds that it is an unfairly restrictive policy. If I took my car for service at the dealer, having put someone else's tyres on it, I would not expect them to refuse to service it. Do you have a problem logging this as a complaint?

12:35:35 : Epson rep: I have passed on your comments and my supervisor is fully aware of the situation however this does not change the service that we provide

12:40:15 : Me: Or to be precise, the service you don't provide. I think that wraps it up. Very disappointing. Bye.
--- end ---

Out of interest, does anyone know if it's the same for the big floor-standing commercial printers?

Andrew, UK
 
Why not ask if you can send them the printer with no ink carts installed??? I bet they have CISS or scanning/reporting/profiling hardware profiles for which are only based on OEM ink... I'd try to send them printer without cartridges... if they want to waste their own ink on it, more power to them... Make sure they don't charge you for replacement inks though...
 
Because there's a good chance it's the non-epson ink causing the clogging problems. Your manual probably says to only use genuine ink cartridges in it, I bet. If you want to be cheap about printing photographs, then a home printer is not for you. Outsource your prints instead and you won't have to worry about these issues or buy paper you might not use all of, or waste ink and paper on mis-prints or bad print settings.

Home printing is for those that sell prints, or if you have money to play with and want to do it yourself at home since outsourcing prints will certainly be cheaper because you have to factor in the cost of the printer prorated throughout every print you make along with all paper purchases!
 
hjr13 said:
I would have been very surprised if they did service it with out their ink in it. It would be like if you took your car in after you converted it to run on some other fuel, then complained it doesn't run right.
Click to expand...
Yes!
 
Epson is within their rights as the manufacturer to make demands on you such as installing genuine carts.

Most clogging issues on Epson Printers stem from the use of 3rd party inks. Usually when a head is clogged all Epson does is run cleaning cycles which only wastes ink and does little to fix a clogged head.

When pigmented inks clog a head from sporadic use it is almost always impossible to unclog. Best bet is to purchase a new printhead and have it installed by an Epson approved service center.

Good luck.

--
Bill
Keep on keepin' on!
 
A couple of years ago, a local client who had always used original Epson cartridges returned his printer, still under warranty, for similar poor nozzle check results, despite several cleans (that used up the cartridges, so he bought a new set at exhorbitant cost) and per Epson's online chat service, despatched the printer with the new cartridges installed.

He got the printer back in a couple of weeks and found that the Epson engineers had used up all the ink in the new cartridges when doing their servicing and testing. Let's say he was not a happy bunny, so he asked me for advice and so I got into the act and sent a stiff letter (on hardboard of course) to Epson and to be fair, they did send him a new set of cartridges that arrived about 2 weeks later. His problem then was he was back to square one - in that delaying time - meaning about a month after printer was despatched back to him, the darned nozzles had clogged again.

OK - with my intervention, Epson then replaced the printer with a refurbished one as still under warranty but it meant that if I or someone else was not around to help, he would have been unable to do any printing - and the printer was in his office, so not very good business wise - I was able to print stuff for him during all that "out of order" period.

My advice to anyone getting a new Epson or whatever is to use ¾ the original inks, then install good compatibles and use those. Should anything go wrong - just replace with the ¼ full original cartridges before returning to Epson. That ensures they don't use all the ink and cannot complain it is not their ink either. Cheating? Hardly as all good quality compatibles do not harm the nozzles in any printers so should really be better described as being sensible procedure to thwart Epson's policies.

--

Zone8: Although I am a handsome geniearse, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!

LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35565277
 
A couple of weeks before my warranty was up for my R3000 I had a paper feeding problem. Spoke to a tech for over an hour to try and fix the problem to no avail. The solution was to send the 3000 back to Epson for a refab printer which I received in 2 days.

Epson's instructions in sending the printer back was "Don't send back the carts". I received my refab printer with a new set of carts plus the printer was like brand new and I was lucky everything worked out in a positive way for me.

BTW I use 3rd party inks.

Andrew
 
My lesson learnt is not to use 3rd party inks and expect the printer manufacturer to assume the liability. If you want manufacturer support use their products.
 
Epson and other printer manufacturers make it very clear that by using inks or toners other than their own you void the warranty. This being the case I find it odd that you are complaining about something Epson make very clear from the outset. Your comparison with a car is spurious.

Clearly you have a choice, comply with the explicit and very reasonable request of Epson and get your printer sorted out or have a rather large plastic doorstop cluttering up your home or office.
Andrew2468 said:
Yesterday I contacted Epson Europe to see about getting my R2400 serviced, I can't get a clear nozzle check. I don't use Epson ink. They will not service the printer unless I buy and install a set of genuine carts!

It was an online chat session and here is the transcript (with the name of the Epson guy hidden and my name changed to "Me")

11:36:34 : Connected to etalk.epson-europe.com

11:36:34 : Session ID: 1327288

11:36:34 : Me: Initial Question/Comment: I have an R2400 printer and can't get a clear nozzle check. I'm wondering if it needs a service. Please can you give me (or email me) contact details for approved servicing in Xxxxxxx UK. thanks Me

11:36:39 : System: Epson rep has joined this session!

11:36:39 : Epson rep: Thank you for contacting Epson's UK Customer Interaction Centre. My name is Epson rep

11:37:25 : Me: hi

11:37:54 : Epson rep: Hi Me. One moment please.

11:39:29 : Epson rep: We offer a fixed price repair service directly from ourselves for this printer. Are you using Epson inks?

11:40:58 : Me: Not at present. Does that matter?

11:41:55 : Epson rep: Yes we would need Epson inks in the printer to carry out a service, has the printer been modified in any way, such as a continuous ink system?

11:43:48 : Me: It's not been modified. Why would I need epson ink if the printer is going to be cleaned? - that's a substantial cost to me!

11:45:10 : Epson rep: For a engineer to fully service the printer and ensure the printer functions correctly we would need Epson inks installed as we cannot guarantee the use of non genuine inks.

11:51:29 : Me: Can we come to some compromise here maybe? I'm fairly confident the ink is ok - Jon Cone ink - and the printer has been working fine with it until this last few days. Would it be possible for Epson to carry out the normal servicing and if a clear nozzle check still did not result, then I would accept that (and pay the fixed price of course).

11:57:21 : Epson rep: Ok we would need to diagnose there is a fault with the printer by having the Epson ink cartridges installed as this is part of diagnostics

11:58:01 : Epson rep: We can't carry out the service without the Epson inks installed first

12:01:06 : Me: That's rather restrictive. What part of the servicing needs epson ink rather than any other ink, please?

12:04:42 : Epson rep: Having the Epson inks will help diagnose the issue, Epson inks contain cleaning agents to help unblock the nozzles in the print head

12:05:02 : Epson rep: Epson cannot guarantee the viscosity of non-genuine Epson ink as it may be thicker and over a period of time this may cause the fine nozzles in the print head to become blocked which could cause possible head damage.

12:11:58 : Me: I appreciate epson can't speak for other people's ink, but I'm not asking you to guarantee anything. I just want it cleaned. Please can you give me the fixed price amount and let me contact whoever does the servicing.

12:13:58 : Epson rep: We would book this for you but would need to run through full diagnostics first of all by having the Epson inks installed. You can try contacting Equinox service centre to see if they can provide a service for you on 01684 853116.

12:20:52 : Me: Thanks for the phone no. Re. insistence on epson ink for epson servicing, please can you escalate this to an epson customer relations manager. I have paid for a custom colour profile for my ink, so putting epson ink in is likely to mess things up. It is very restrictive of you to refuse servicing just because the ink is not epson. I don't have approx £100 just lying around to spend on ink I don't need or want. You haven't given any valid reason why you can't service it with my ink (or no ink at all if you can use flush fluid. Please record this as a complaint.

12:29:49 : Epson rep: I have spoken with my supervisor and I would recommend contacting Equinox directly as we do not encourage the use of non genuine or services with the non genuine ink cartridges

12:33:13 : Me: I'd still like this raised as a complaint please, on the grounds that it is an unfairly restrictive policy. If I took my car for service at the dealer, having put someone else's tyres on it, I would not expect them to refuse to service it. Do you have a problem logging this as a complaint?

12:35:35 : Epson rep: I have passed on your comments and my supervisor is fully aware of the situation however this does not change the service that we provide

12:40:15 : Me: Or to be precise, the service you don't provide. I think that wraps it up. Very disappointing. Bye.
--- end ---

Out of interest, does anyone know if it's the same for the big floor-standing commercial printers?

Andrew, UK
Click to expand...
 
paulbysea said:
Epson and other printer manufacturers make it very clear that by using inks or toners other than their own you void the warranty. This being the case I find it odd that you are complaining about something Epson make very clear from the outset. Your comparison with a car is spurious.

Clearly you have a choice, comply with the explicit and very reasonable request of Epson and get your printer sorted out or have a rather large plastic doorstop cluttering up your home or office.
Click to expand...
Actually in US there is a law which prohibits printer manufacturers from voiding the waranty on the fact that user used non-oem inks.
http://inkinawink.tripod.com/id27.html

Feel free to google and find other sources, this is a law in US... But does not work in other countries.
 
hi there ive been a r3000 owner for nearly 10 months , great printer when working, but i dare not use it now, for the past 8 months it prints out half finished prints , wired or wifi its all the same, did the latest update on software and i think its even worse than ever before, epson have just fobbed me off to try and find the problem on forum links! what a load of dung!ive wasted so much ink also and much paper, last week they said the updates will have sorted the problem but no such look, EPSON IS A NO NO for recommendations from me ! i will be posting the outcome very soon!
 
jontys said:
hi there ive been a r3000 owner for nearly 10 months , great printer when working, but i dare not use it now, for the past 8 months it prints out half finished prints , wired or wifi its all the same, did the latest update on software and i think its even worse than ever before, epson have just fobbed me off to try and find the problem on forum links! what a load of dung!ive wasted so much ink also and much paper, last week they said the updates will have sorted the problem but no such look, EPSON IS A NO NO for recommendations from me ! i will be posting the outcome very soon!
Click to expand...
I think the warantee is 12MO; they may be stalling to run it down... If you have Epson repair center nearby you should take it in before warantee expires...
 
Do you guys ever read the posts on this forum? Epson printers are so easy to unclog. I can't believe that you guys go through so much hassle and wasted time.

Epson print heads have the smallest nozzles which does make them clog a little more than others. But read through the many threads on unclogging epson printers right on this forum.
--
Kevin
 
paulbysea said:
Epson and other printer manufacturers make it very clear that by using inks or toners other than their own you void the warranty. This being the case I find it odd that you are complaining about something Epson make very clear from the outset. Your comparison with a car is spurious.
Click to expand...
It is interesting that some people quote that using compatible inks voids the warranty. It doesn't. Epson would have an extremely hard time trying to prove that ink other than theirs has caused problems. Provided owners use high quality compatible inks, they will not have clogging problems. I have been using good quality compatible inks for years. The most clogging I ever had was with an Epson 1200 running on Epson inks - because for the first couple of years, compatible inks were not available, so no choice anyway. When PrintRite inks became available, I switched to those (far cheaper and better too) and never had another clog, unlike the Epson originals. Nowadays, I run my 1400 (stated by Epson to only be a dye ink printer) on inkjetfly.com excellent pigment inks - and no clogging for past 3+ years. This ink is superior to the original Epson dye inks.

Later Epsons, with even smaller nozzles, seem to be mostly free of clogs anyway - something I believe down to them being coated with the sort of non-stick silicon that was used on frying pans and other kitchen utensils. As another poster has rightly stated - freeing clogs is straightforward enough should that occur and the methods have been fully detailed in this forum over the past few years too, so those complaining should set to and sort out easily as described many times.
--

Zone8: Although I am a handsome geniearse, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!

LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35565277
 
Interesting about the 1400 pigment inks. Thanks.

You have to order directly from the US. What's your experience relating to delays and costs involved?
 
jsam said:
My lesson learnt is not to use 3rd party inks and expect the printer manufacturer to assume the liability. If you want manufacturer support use their products.
Click to expand...
Please note, I wasn't expecting epson to assume any liability and it wasn't a warranty claim.
 
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