Group photo outside - simple lighting setup?

[audiobomber]

I have to take a family photo outside later today, in diffuse daylight (late afternoon to early evening). There will be 16 people in the photo. I have a camera, lens, tripod, Sigma EF-530, light stand, 36" dia umbrella. With this setup I would use the camera's wireless mode to trigger the flash, which is not terribly reliable outside. Some of my subjects have an extremely short attention span (medical reasons and kids). I don't want any technical troubles. The umbrella is a complication and I'm not sure if it's large enough for this group, as I've only used it for small groups indoors previously.

I was wondering about a simpler setup using a flash bracket between the camera and tripod. Alternatively, I could mount the flash on a light stand beside the camera, but all I have is a 3' cord. These simpler setups won't give me interesting lighting, but should illuminate everyone, while avoiding umbrella and wireless quirks, eliminating redeye, and possibly adding catchlights.

I rarely shoot portraits. I'd like to hear opinions on how to proceed. If I've missed a better option, please let me know. I do not intend to rely on natural lighting. IMO a flash is preferable for this kind of shot.
--
Dan

 

[Michael Thomas Mitchell]

You're not going to get "interesting" lighting with one flash and an outdoor group of 16 people. What you're looking for is "adequate" lighting. And your fears about the optical triggering are well placed; optical triggering suffers out doors, especially with any amount of distance greater than about 10 feet. Also, umbrellas don't do terribly well outddoors, if you havn't noticed. One little gust and they go down without proper weighting, taking your flash with it.

If you don't want technical troubles, KEEP IT SIMPLE. Use that 3' chord so that your flash is rock solid reliable. Get it ABOVE the camera. Use the widest zoom setting. (Does it have an overlay wide angle diffuser built it in? If so, flip it on.)

For most consistent results, shoot manually. Meter your flash and ambient separately. Do this with a stand-in before the main group. Then, after the group is ready, fire away. After composing, don't even look through the viewfinder... you'll miss stuff. Put your face to the sit and talk to them to get their attention and then fire a lot of shots. If you've mounted the camera on a tripod, then you can cut and paste faces from shot to shot to end up with the best single image.

In the future (no time for today's shoot), you'll need a set of radio triggers for shooting outside. You shouldn't have to be messing with either chords or optical triggering. A couple of $50 manual flashes and a few inexpensive radio triggers, totaling about $175, would be much better for this shoot than one expensive optical-based auto-everything flash. It's just a matter of different tools for different jobs.

Best of luck

I have to take a family photo outside later today, in diffuse daylight (late afternoon to early evening). There will be 16 people in the photo. I have a camera, lens, tripod, Sigma EF-530, light stand, 36" dia umbrella. With this setup I would use the camera's wireless mode to trigger the flash, which is not terribly reliable outside. Some of my subjects have an extremely short attention span (medical reasons and kids). I don't want any technical troubles. The umbrella is a complication and I'm not sure if it's large enough for this group, as I've only used it for small groups indoors previously.

I was wondering about a simpler setup using a flash bracket between the camera and tripod. Alternatively, I could mount the flash on a light stand beside the camera, but all I have is a 3' cord. These simpler setups won't give me interesting lighting, but should illuminate everyone, while avoiding umbrella and wireless quirks, eliminating redeye, and possibly adding catchlights.

I rarely shoot portraits. I'd like to hear opinions on how to proceed. If I've missed a better option, please let me know. I do not intend to rely on natural lighting. IMO a flash is preferable for this kind of shot.
--
Dan

 

[audiobomber]

You're not going to get "interesting" lighting with one flash and an outdoor group of 16 people. What you're looking for is "adequate" lighting.

That clarifies the goal.

And your fears about the optical triggering are well placed; optical triggering suffers out doors, especially with any amount of distance greater than about 10 feet.

I've had that experience.

Also, umbrellas don't do terribly well outddoors, if you havn't noticed. One little gust and they go down without proper weighting, taking your flash with it.

LOL! I hadn't thought of that hazard.

If you don't want technical troubles, KEEP IT SIMPLE. Use that 3' chord so that your flash is rock solid reliable. Get it ABOVE the camera. Use the widest zoom setting. (Does it have an overlay wide angle diffuser built it in? If so, flip it on.)

Yes, it has a wide angle diffuser. Would my Omni-bounce help? I've heard not to use it outside, but IME it does soften the light.

For most consistent results, shoot manually. Meter your flash and ambient separately. Do this with a stand-in before the main group. Then, after the group is ready, fire away.

Could you give me more detail on this? I was thinking it would be good to use manual to avoid pre-flash, but i'm not sure how to meter. Do I set the camera for one stop below and use the flash to add a stop?

After composing, don't even look through the viewfinder... you'll miss stuff. Put your face to the sit and talk to them to get their attention and then fire a lot of shots.

Unfortunately I will be in the photo, so it's remote triggering or timer only. I like the 10s timer for this, because people have a good indication of when the camera will fire. OTOH, some people will give you a phony smile, which is worse than being caught off guard. Some of each then.

If you've mounted the camera on a tripod, then you can cut and paste faces from shot to shot to end up with the best single image.

I've cloned things out of photos, but not added.

In the future (no time for today's shoot), you'll need a set of radio triggers for shooting outside. You shouldn't have to be messing with either chords or optical triggering. A couple of $50 manual flashes and a few inexpensive radio triggers, totaling about $175, would be much better for this shoot than one expensive optical-based auto-everything flash. It's just a matter of different tools for different jobs.

I'll keep that in mind. At this point, i don't see much demand for this kind of shoot. Normally I shoot nature.

Best of luck

Thanks. And thanks for your help.

--
Dan

 

[Michael Thomas Mitchell]

Yes, it has a wide angle diffuser. Would my Omni-bounce help? I've heard not to use it outside, but IME it does soften the light.

No, the omnibounce won't do much good outdoors. It needs surfaces to bounce off of... ceilings, walls, etc.

For most consistent results, shoot manually. Meter your flash and ambient separately. Do this with a stand-in before the main group. Then, after the group is ready, fire away.

Could you give me more detail on this? I was thinking it would be good to use manual to avoid pre-flash, but i'm not sure how to meter. Do I set the camera for one stop below and use the flash to add a stop?

Set your camera to manual and meter the scene. Your combination of f-stop and shutter speed will determine the exposure for the background. (Make sure to keep your shutter speed at or below the maximum sync speed of the flash.) Now, set that aside. Your next step is to meter the flash for your subjects. I prefer to use a dedicated flash meter, but you can "chimp" as well, manually adjusting the output of the flash so that your subjects are properly exposed by it.

It's a matter of taste as to how the exposure is balanced between the background and your subjects. But certainly the STARTING POINT would be for both of them to be properly exposed.

After composing, don't even look through the viewfinder... you'll miss stuff. Put your face to the sit and talk to them to get their attention and then fire a lot of shots.

Unfortunately I will be in the photo, so it's remote triggering or timer only. I like the 10s timer for this, because people have a good indication of when the camera will fire. OTOH, some people will give you a phony smile, which is worse than being caught off guard. Some of each then.

Remote triggering would give you control over timing... AND prevent you from having to run back and forth!

If you've mounted the camera on a tripod, then you can cut and paste faces from shot to shot to end up with the best single image.

I've cloned things out of photos, but not added.

This is relatively easy, and something I do with group shots for weddings quite often. You're not cloning, but rather copying someone's face from one pictures and pasting it over their face in another. Very helpful for dealing with odd expressions, blinking eyes, or lost attentions.

In the future (no time for today's shoot), you'll need a set of radio triggers for shooting outside. You shouldn't have to be messing with either chords or optical triggering. A couple of $50 manual flashes and a few inexpensive radio triggers, totaling about $175, would be much better for this shoot than one expensive optical-based auto-everything flash. It's just a matter of different tools for different jobs.

I'll keep that in mind. At this point, i don't see much demand for this kind of shoot. Normally I shoot nature.

No, they're not commonly used in nature shooting.

Best of luck

Thanks. And thanks for your help.

--
Dan

 

[audiobomber]

I'll be leaving for the party shortly. Thanks for your time and experience.
--
Dan