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What should Sonys reaction to the new Canon have to be?
- Thread starter gfrensen
- Start date
Better pixels - get rid of the Bayer mosaic and use a multi-layer sensor. Sony do have patents for this. Given a multilayer sensor, 24 Megapixels should be enough.
A more logical interface could be done as a firmware update.
Jonathan Brady
Veteran Member
They should simply laugh. Openly, and boisterously.
I'm a Canon user and have been biding my time to purchase a NEX. I'm quite disappointed in the EOS-M. There's absolutely nothing about it that screams INNOVATIVE. The tech specs are par for the course and nothing to get excited about. The image quality isn't going to be anything better than the 7D which came out around 3 years ago (or the 60D which is what I use) - how does a company keep IQ the same when they're already behind? EOS-M currently lacks an articulating screen - I don't understand why that feature is omitted when the focus (no pun intended) is on lenses that focus silently for video. And the price... WOW. Outdated tech at a premium price. What else would we expect from the market leader?
The ONLY thing this system has going for it is native support for EF/EF-S lenses (via an adapter). That's it. I use Digital Photo Professional (Canon's bundled software for those who don't know - and it's quite good) to edit/convert my RAW files now and that's actually been what's held me back from purchasing a NEX. I like that I can correct lens aberrations/distortion with Canon's algorithms quickly and easily. So, continuing to use DPP and my current stable of lenses will have me considering FUTURE iterations of EOS-M, but avoiding this one. I'm very disappointed in this camera but I'm hopeful that within 2 years, something better (and a substantial upgrade) is available.
I'm a Canon user and have been biding my time to purchase a NEX. I'm quite disappointed in the EOS-M. There's absolutely nothing about it that screams INNOVATIVE. The tech specs are par for the course and nothing to get excited about. The image quality isn't going to be anything better than the 7D which came out around 3 years ago (or the 60D which is what I use) - how does a company keep IQ the same when they're already behind? EOS-M currently lacks an articulating screen - I don't understand why that feature is omitted when the focus (no pun intended) is on lenses that focus silently for video. And the price... WOW. Outdated tech at a premium price. What else would we expect from the market leader?
The ONLY thing this system has going for it is native support for EF/EF-S lenses (via an adapter). That's it. I use Digital Photo Professional (Canon's bundled software for those who don't know - and it's quite good) to edit/convert my RAW files now and that's actually been what's held me back from purchasing a NEX. I like that I can correct lens aberrations/distortion with Canon's algorithms quickly and easily. So, continuing to use DPP and my current stable of lenses will have me considering FUTURE iterations of EOS-M, but avoiding this one. I'm very disappointed in this camera but I'm hopeful that within 2 years, something better (and a substantial upgrade) is available.
Embarrassment.
Yep, shame that they still haven't released a moderately fast 35mm equivalent lens. I love my NEX7, but it isn't because of Sony's lens support.
--
Ken in Illinois
http://www.pbase.com/kjford
Yep, shame that they still haven't released a moderately fast 35mm equivalent lens. I love my NEX7, but it isn't because of Sony's lens support.
--
Ken in Illinois
http://www.pbase.com/kjford
Twelveish
Well-known member
Not sure a reaction to a lesser effort is needed, but FWIW:
Faster AF? - Nope, already at least on par, from the little we know right now.
Smaller cameras? - Already sorted.
More mega pixels? - Already sorted (Nex 7)
Better interface? - Well yes, but might not be a deal breaker to most? Anyway, yes. Needs improvement.
All that said, there is no doubt in my mind the new Canon mirrorless will do very well indeed. Sonys most effective counter measure would probably be to stick a Canon label onto their existing Nex 5N's and 7's. But um... I'm not sure they can do that.
Faster AF? - Nope, already at least on par, from the little we know right now.
Smaller cameras? - Already sorted.
More mega pixels? - Already sorted (Nex 7)
Better interface? - Well yes, but might not be a deal breaker to most? Anyway, yes. Needs improvement.
All that said, there is no doubt in my mind the new Canon mirrorless will do very well indeed. Sonys most effective counter measure would probably be to stick a Canon label onto their existing Nex 5N's and 7's. But um... I'm not sure they can do that.
mike geier
Senior Member
Canon just made an almost NEX competetor.
why do you think they made it an also ran?
nothing new or exciting, ignored 16x9 format, released ho hum lenses for it. I could go on but my point is made, this is just another entry into the NEX catchup arena that misses the mark
why do you think they made it an also ran?
nothing new or exciting, ignored 16x9 format, released ho hum lenses for it. I could go on but my point is made, this is just another entry into the NEX catchup arena that misses the mark
edwardaneal
Veteran Member
I think the one who has to respond is Nikon.
Sony has the NEX-7 - probably the best mirrorless camera made at this time
M 4/3 has the OM-D - arguably the second best
Canon now has what is likely very close to the above
and Nikon ??? a very innovative camera with tiny sensor that kills it
--
NEX-7 & Sigma 30mm f/2.8
NEX-5 & 18-55 OSS
And a spare black 18-55
Sony has the NEX-7 - probably the best mirrorless camera made at this time
M 4/3 has the OM-D - arguably the second best
Canon now has what is likely very close to the above
and Nikon ??? a very innovative camera with tiny sensor that kills it
--
NEX-7 & Sigma 30mm f/2.8
NEX-5 & 18-55 OSS
And a spare black 18-55
Steven-T
Veteran Member
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Lenses. Smaller, lighter, faster, wider, longer, primes, zooms, pancakes, ice-creams. It's the lenses, lenses, lenses. Put a NEX label on those x-pro1 lenses.
TexasTumbleweed
Member
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How about a firmware update?
Knallberto
Veteran Member
You're right. I've some Canons, m4/3s and NEXs - best of all is NEX7 ... there is 3.14159 km distance of EOS-M !
Knallberto
Veteran Member
Iiiiiiiii do not need lenses, I have 30 lenses for my NEXes - from 8mm to 500mm
More accurate AF rather than faster.
Current sze is OK , maybe even slightly larger which would make lenses seem more in proportion. Weight is more important than overall size but the use of plastics introduce some problems of their own.
Higher quality lenses which can be optimised by sophitsicated software correction providing the parameters can be available to RAW users. Sony need to work closely with software producers to achieve this
Better EVF performance especially in low light.
Much better UI which is organised more logically. An Organogram screen which indicates the layout of customised buttons together with several specific memory recall settings.
One pet request of mine :- focus stacking even if this is restricted to tripod use only .This would be useful for increasing DOF for insect & flower shots for example.
Also in-camera stitching of multiple shots ie a poor mans version on Gigapan stitched panos. This would be an extension of the current Pano facilities. It would have to be restricted to perhaps a maximum of 9 shots making up a 3 x 3 grid.
All these suggestions are feasible & I could go on but don't want to seem too demanding
- -
Keith Ca
Current sze is OK , maybe even slightly larger which would make lenses seem more in proportion. Weight is more important than overall size but the use of plastics introduce some problems of their own.
Higher quality lenses which can be optimised by sophitsicated software correction providing the parameters can be available to RAW users. Sony need to work closely with software producers to achieve this
Better EVF performance especially in low light.
Much better UI which is organised more logically. An Organogram screen which indicates the layout of customised buttons together with several specific memory recall settings.
One pet request of mine :- focus stacking even if this is restricted to tripod use only .This would be useful for increasing DOF for insect & flower shots for example.
Also in-camera stitching of multiple shots ie a poor mans version on Gigapan stitched panos. This would be an extension of the current Pano facilities. It would have to be restricted to perhaps a maximum of 9 shots making up a 3 x 3 grid.
All these suggestions are feasible & I could go on but don't want to seem too demanding
- -
Keith Ca
NeilJones
Veteran Member
The 5n sensor in the 7 body!
It's that simple!
--
Shoot like it's your last day..
It's that simple!
--
Shoot like it's your last day..
...with a stress on DPP use = I do miss it dearly while processing
RAWs from N7
!!
with a bag full of EF/EF-S glass (and not a single E-mount one so far,
as their AF speed accuracy is not all that tempting yet), I've found that
N7 + Conurus is more than enough to deal with MF and EF (but also
with legacy ones), except then shooting highly dynamic scenes hand
held = thus the number one priority/and high hopes (failed) towards
EOS-M was a decent on-sensor PDAF, but... without giving up
external controls, eye-level VF, articulated screen, etc. And also
hoping for much improved UI (I'm not a big fan of Sony's menus and
logic = even numerous tri-navi sub-design and choices just cry to be
redone for a better consistency);
jpr2
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
RAWs from N7
!!with a bag full of EF/EF-S glass (and not a single E-mount one so far,
as their AF speed accuracy is not all that tempting yet), I've found that
N7 + Conurus is more than enough to deal with MF and EF (but also
with legacy ones), except then shooting highly dynamic scenes hand
held = thus the number one priority/and high hopes (failed) towards
EOS-M was a decent on-sensor PDAF, but... without giving up
external controls, eye-level VF, articulated screen, etc. And also
hoping for much improved UI (I'm not a big fan of Sony's menus and
logic = even numerous tri-navi sub-design and choices just cry to be
redone for a better consistency);
jpr2
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
The key will be the technical review of the 22mm pancake. If it has the same type of IQ perception as the Sony 16mm (has it moments of brilliance, but a number of weak spots to be aware of), then this is an absolute "meh" camera. OTOH, if identified as technically exceptional, many will be inspired that Canon "gets it" relative to mirrorless lenses.
Knowing the 22mm pancake is a kit lens, I suspect it will be identified as more average than exceptional.
And clearly one cannot live with 1 FL prime, so you have to be in with $1100 for an entry level camera (once the zoom is purchased) and no room to expand with native lenses beyond that at this time.
Having monitored the Canon forum the last few days trying to understand perceptions of this camera, they seem to be a much more critical bunch than Nex forum users... will be interesting to read their "lack of quality lens" whining over the next several years.
Knowing the 22mm pancake is a kit lens, I suspect it will be identified as more average than exceptional.
And clearly one cannot live with 1 FL prime, so you have to be in with $1100 for an entry level camera (once the zoom is purchased) and no room to expand with native lenses beyond that at this time.
Having monitored the Canon forum the last few days trying to understand perceptions of this camera, they seem to be a much more critical bunch than Nex forum users... will be interesting to read their "lack of quality lens" whining over the next several years.
It would be great if they re organise the UI I agree
WOW i like this, Sony can it be done PLEASE? I will buy that camera for sure!
Your other remarks I understand, but are not for me that important (but for others it will I know.
Old Pirate
Senior Member
If I were given the opportunity to sell a person a NEX versus the Canon I'd simply do two things.
I'd put something low like a child, under a table, and tell them to photograph it straight on with either camera. Then I'd put four people taller than my prospect between him/her and the object to be photographed and hand them both cameras and ask them to take pictures of the object over the heads of the people I placed with each camera.
These are real shooting situations we all face every time we go out. In about 30 seconds they'll see that SONY built a camera with the consumer in mind and others merely built a camera.
I'm positive the Canon is a fine camera, but even if I had no mirrorless camera I'd buy the 5n over it and the 7 is a whole different world.
I'd put something low like a child, under a table, and tell them to photograph it straight on with either camera. Then I'd put four people taller than my prospect between him/her and the object to be photographed and hand them both cameras and ask them to take pictures of the object over the heads of the people I placed with each camera.
These are real shooting situations we all face every time we go out. In about 30 seconds they'll see that SONY built a camera with the consumer in mind and others merely built a camera.
I'm positive the Canon is a fine camera, but even if I had no mirrorless camera I'd buy the 5n over it and the 7 is a whole different world.
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