I am trying to decide between the new Nikon 85mm f1.8g and the Rokinon 85mm f1.4 lenses on a D5100 or D300 for application to non-studio handheld portraiture work. The tradeoff seems to be f1.4 vs f1.8 and manual vs auto focus. While I would prefer opening to f1.4, I am concerned that I might lose shots due to the extra time involved in manually focusing. For this application, how significant is the difference between f1.4 and f1.8? What think ye in this matter?
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Nikon 85mm f1.8g vs Rokinon 85mm f1.4
- Thread starter PhotogT39
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- nikon d300 nikon d5100
As much as I love my Samyang (Rokinon), it's tough to recommend against the Nikon f/1.8.
The problem is that focusing is extremely difficult when shooting wide-open - and the focus confirmation dot in the viewfinder can't really be relied on. The best way to focus is either stopping down (so you have more margin for error), focus bracketing (take several shots as you rack the focus through the subject) - or with liveview and zooming in. Hand-held liveview focusing is possible (I was doing so just yesterday with this lens), but is difficult without a tripod.
If your subjects aren't moving - and you absolutely need f/1.4 to get the shot - the Samyang is optically not a bad lens and it can make good pictures. But if you're even slightly in a hurry, need every shot to be a keeper, or aren't willing to work around the slow handling, get the Nikon.
The problem is that focusing is extremely difficult when shooting wide-open - and the focus confirmation dot in the viewfinder can't really be relied on. The best way to focus is either stopping down (so you have more margin for error), focus bracketing (take several shots as you rack the focus through the subject) - or with liveview and zooming in. Hand-held liveview focusing is possible (I was doing so just yesterday with this lens), but is difficult without a tripod.
If your subjects aren't moving - and you absolutely need f/1.4 to get the shot - the Samyang is optically not a bad lens and it can make good pictures. But if you're even slightly in a hurry, need every shot to be a keeper, or aren't willing to work around the slow handling, get the Nikon.
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gatorowl
Guest
I had both lenses. The Samyang may be a bit sharper wide open. The Nikon is sharper from 2.8 up.
However, the reason I sold the Samyang and kept the Nikon is the AF. It is a real big deal fast lenses. Even on DX, the focus is extremely narrow. I personally think that I did well shooting with focus confirmation on the D5100. However, I needed to be very patient and careful. I definitely wasn't taking candid shots wide open.
The reality is that I have several fast lenses including an 85 1.2, 35 1.4 on the Canon side and Samyang 35 1.4, and 50 1.4D on the Nikon side. I very rarely shoot any of these lenses wide open. Typically, I like to shoot f2 or higher and in an emergency I'll go f1.6.
So, you hardly miss anything getting a 1.8 lens versus a 1.4 lens.
However, the reason I sold the Samyang and kept the Nikon is the AF. It is a real big deal fast lenses. Even on DX, the focus is extremely narrow. I personally think that I did well shooting with focus confirmation on the D5100. However, I needed to be very patient and careful. I definitely wasn't taking candid shots wide open.
The reality is that I have several fast lenses including an 85 1.2, 35 1.4 on the Canon side and Samyang 35 1.4, and 50 1.4D on the Nikon side. I very rarely shoot any of these lenses wide open. Typically, I like to shoot f2 or higher and in an emergency I'll go f1.6.
So, you hardly miss anything getting a 1.8 lens versus a 1.4 lens.
Denis of Whidbey Island
Senior Member
I owned the Rokinon and replaced it with the Nikon. The 1.4 had slightly better bokeh but was a bugger to nail focus at wide apertures. Just yesterday I was out with the 1.8G and D800 on a job in AF-S and AF-C modes; had no shots with missed focus.
Denis
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I have made this letter a rather long one, only because I didn't have the leisure to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal, 1623-1662
Denis
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I have made this letter a rather long one, only because I didn't have the leisure to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal, 1623-1662
cptobvious
Leading Member
For sharpness the Nikon beats the Rokinon/Samyang hands down. The Samyang is actually not that sharp resolution-wise, but it has very good color/contrast rendering which makes it seem sharper. For bokeh I'd give the edge to the Samyang.
If the Nikon was $400 I'd say it's a no-brainer in favor of the Nikon, but with a $200 difference I'd say it comes down to whether AF is worth that much to you. If you get the Samyang, I'd highly recommend getting the version with the auto exposure chip. With the D5100's electronic rangefinder it's a lot easier to hit focus.
If the Nikon was $400 I'd say it's a no-brainer in favor of the Nikon, but with a $200 difference I'd say it comes down to whether AF is worth that much to you. If you get the Samyang, I'd highly recommend getting the version with the auto exposure chip. With the D5100's electronic rangefinder it's a lot easier to hit focus.
mistermejia
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The Rokinon is super sharp, already sharp at 1.4. This is a special, special lens and it should not be compared to any AF lens. Manual is manual no matter what lens. I would be stupid if i ever sell my Rocko at this price. This IS my favorite lens.
Why would some of this folks have such a hard time using the Rokinon?
Number one: Their eyes are bad. Number two: They are impatient. Number three: Camera Auto Focus Fine Tuning.
Yes, About a month ago i discovered that i needed to perform the AF fine tuning on my D7000. When I bought it last year I would have never thought that i needed to do such thing , for it is a Manual focus, but a couple of weeks ago i was AF fine tuning my AF lenses and ALL OF THE SUDDEN i thought, why dont i check the rokinon just for the heck of it? Guess what? My D7000 was back focusing on it quite a bit, not too much, but it was. I could not believe it.
No wonder I was missing quite a bit of photos!! The stupid confirmation dot was lighting up, but it was back focusing. After i tuned THE CAMERA, this lens is even BETTER now. Now it is so accurate that i don't even have to look at the dumm confirmation dot, when ever the image is sharp thru my view finder, VUALA!, that is when it is sharp, even at 1.4 baby!!
By the way, I skipped the 1.8G over this puppy and I NEVER looked back at the Nikon G lens. This lens IS a Bokeh King, the Nikon is not, it is just slightly better than the 1.8D, which i still LOVE very much. If i need AF i use any of my other AF lenses. For bokeh and to get artistic, this beauty is THE ONE
Check out my humble jpeg Rokinon photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mistermejia/
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gatorowl
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The lens works just fine with the rangefinder feature in D5100, which I assume is the same as the one in the D3100.
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gatorowl
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Your photos are fantastic! They almost make me sorry that I gave up my Rokinon 85, but I won't look back.
By the way, I think the word you were trying to use is "voilà!" It's a French word, which means that its pronunciation bears little resemblance to the way it's spelled.
By the way, I think the word you were trying to use is "voilà!" It's a French word, which means that its pronunciation bears little resemblance to the way it's spelled.
cptobvious wrote:
...
No wonder I was missing quite a bit of photos!! The stupid confirmation dot was lighting up, but it was back focusing. After i tuned THE CAMERA, this lens is even BETTER now. Now it is so accurate that i don't even have to look at the dumm confirmation dot, when ever the image is sharp thru my view finder, VUALA!, that is when it is sharp, even at 1.4 baby!!
By the way, I skipped the 1.8G over this puppy and I NEVER looked back at the Nikon G lens. This lens IS a Bokeh King, the Nikon is not, it is just slightly better than the 1.8D, which i still LOVE very much. If i need AF i use any of my other AF lenses. For bokeh and to get artistic, this beauty is THE ONE
Check out my humble jpeg Rokinon photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mistermejia/
Since seeing your reply to this thread after my earlier comment - and the wonderful pictures you linked to - I tried to focus tune my Samyang 85mm f/1.4.
Unfortunately I have the non-chipped version. I have the lens entered in the custom bank so I get the correct aperture info, but with an unchipped lens on my camera, the focus tuning is greyed out and even the global tuning setting doesn't do anything.
This was disappointing... but I'm either stuck with liveview - or I need to sell a few lenses and trade up to another 85mm. Maybe the chipped version of the Samyang (Rokinon); the Nikon f/1.8G; possibly the Sigma f/1.4.
Tuning did work on my chipped Samyang 35mm f/1.4 though. I never had a problem with that lens before, but it did need a very slight tuning adjustment. So that should improve my hit ratio there, thanks!
Unfortunately I have the non-chipped version. I have the lens entered in the custom bank so I get the correct aperture info, but with an unchipped lens on my camera, the focus tuning is greyed out and even the global tuning setting doesn't do anything.
This was disappointing... but I'm either stuck with liveview - or I need to sell a few lenses and trade up to another 85mm. Maybe the chipped version of the Samyang (Rokinon); the Nikon f/1.8G; possibly the Sigma f/1.4.
Tuning did work on my chipped Samyang 35mm f/1.4 though. I never had a problem with that lens before, but it did need a very slight tuning adjustment. So that should improve my hit ratio there, thanks!
PepsiCan
Leading Member
You may want to consider the relationship between Depth Of Field and the viewing angle of the lens. All else constant, the DOF will narrow as the viewing angle of the lens narrows. At 85mm, the DOF difference between a f1.4 and f1.8 lens is not as large as for a 35mm lens, given the same distance to the focus point.
A practical example: at 85mm, being 3 meters from the subject a f1.4 lens has a DOF of 6cm. The f1.8 lens has a DOF of 9cm (source: http://www.dofmaster.com ). At f2.8, the DOF changes to about 14 cm, which would be reasonable for a headshot at that distance. Ask yourself, is that difference of 3cm (just over an inch) worth the trouble of manual focus? You will not shoot all the time at f1.4. I guarantee you that. But you will always should manual with the Rokinon.
I own a D5000 and I own manual focus lenses. But they are all wide-angle or super wide-angle, not short tele. You will miss too many shots if you are not working with steady subjects in controlled conditions.
I hope this clarifies some of your questions and you can make your choice now.
mistermejia
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Pepsican, Just as you say, it is a "practical example" and you are getting all technical, and i like it. But in REAL life, that is a whole different story. As to the Rokinon, there is no bother or trouble with it, at least TO ME. What is the problem? I LOVE this lens. I don't imagine or pretend in my head that this lens is AF, is not, it is MANUAL, therefore anyone that cannot handle it should not even bother with it, but it is NOT difficult to use. This is a SPECIAL, very special portrait lens, it is not for fast action photos, obviously, allthough i have taken lots of fast moving objects with it, you just have to figure out how to do it, certainly not thru Live View.
I don't know how many times i have to say it but this len is a BEAUTY! You might be getting all technical on DOF, but this lens for some reason, by DESING, CANNOT be compared to the Nikon 1.8G lens in the Bokeh department, there is a HUGE, HUGE bokeh difference between THIS particular lens and a 1.8 lens. Don't believe me, ask others that have this lens either on a DX or FF body, look at amazon reviews and other sites, there are tons. This lens has NOT replaced my other AF lenses, it is completely separate and different, but is the best one i have
Chroko, i have a D7000 with the chip version. I am sorry that you don't have the chip version. Have you simply tried returning it to where you purchased it? You can EASILY sell it and for about only $30 dollars more you can get the chip version. Is that simple, i don't think is necessary to get rid of your other lenses.
PepsiCan
Leading Member
I'm not denying in any way that the Rokinon is a good lens. What I tried to show to the OP are the practical numbers we're talking about. Hopefully that will help the OP to make up his/her mind. In my own case, I suffer from bad eyesight. So, getting the framing right is already bad enough for me as my glasses are between my eye and the viewfinder. That is why tele manual focus does not work for me. Believe me, I wish it was different
Your tip on focus tuning are spot on by the way. One of those should-do-but-didn't kinda things.
Your tip on focus tuning are spot on by the way. One of those should-do-but-didn't kinda things.
mistermejia
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Gatorowl, thanks for correcting my Frech spelling. Is a beautiful language, i wish i knew now to speak it and write. We we! I LOVE Gregory Bogue, he is Frech and the BEST and fastest track bike racer in the world. Awesone dude!Your photos are fantastic! They almost make me sorry that I gave up my Rokinon 85, but I won't look back.
By the way, I think the word you were trying to use is "voilà!" It's a French word, which means that its pronunciation bears little resemblance to the way it's spelled.
cptobvious wrote:
...
No wonder I was missing quite a bit of photos!! The stupid confirmation dot was lighting up, but it was back focusing. After i tuned THE CAMERA, this lens is even BETTER now. Now it is so accurate that i don't even have to look at the dumm confirmation dot, when ever the image is sharp thru my view finder, VUALA!, that is when it is sharp, even at 1.4 baby!!
By the way, I skipped the 1.8G over this puppy and I NEVER looked back at the Nikon G lens. This lens IS a Bokeh King, the Nikon is not, it is just slightly better than the 1.8D, which i still LOVE very much. If i need AF i use any of my other AF lenses. For bokeh and to get artistic, this beauty is THE ONE
Check out my humble jpeg Rokinon photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mistermejia/
mistermejia
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Man! That sucks! I used to be near sighted but got lasic surgery a couple of years ago, now i have top notch sight! Maybe you can look into that.I'm not denying in any way that the Rokinon is a good lens. What I tried to show to the OP are the practical numbers we're talking about. Hopefully that will help the OP to make up his/her mind. In my own case, I suffer from bad eyesight. So, getting the framing right is already bad enough for me as my glasses are between my eye and the viewfinder. That is why tele manual focus does not work for me. Believe me, I wish it was different
Your tip on focus tuning are spot on by the way. One of those should-do-but-didn't kinda things.
By the way, i don't know what is wrong with my spelling today. Above i ment to say French not Frech, and the dude's name is Gregory Bauge. I wish i could take my camera to one of those races and take some nice photos. Just for the FUN here is a link of one of his short but super fast bike races. He is the black guy from France. If you like speed and photography you'll love this
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npcysPZFkBc&feature=related
MiraShootsNikon
Senior Member
The Rokinon rocks . Manual focusing with live view is no problem for candids:
or for posed looks:
The more you do it, the better you'll get. The lens is also constructed to help you: the focus helicoid is very, very smooth and easy to move precisely--the feeling's far, far better and more direct than any AF-S or AF-D Nikkor. Give it a week of constant shooting and you'll be very, very quick. As others have said, it's plenty sharp wide open, but it's also killer in the f/2.8 - f/4 range. I think it puts the $$$$ Nikon f/1.4 offerings to shame.
mira
MiraShootsNikon
Senior Member
Ok, since I'm sharing Rokinon 85 shots, I thought I'd show one possible worst-case scenario: the Rokinion can fringe pretty wildly if you shoot bright, high-contrast subjects. Here's an example of how bad it can be:
Not so terrible, but you get the gist.
mira
Not so terrible, but you get the gist.
mira
MiraShootsNikon
Senior Member
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