D3200 built-in flash as Master?

[crb456]

Can the built-in flash be used as a master flash?

On the sites nikon.com.au and mynikonlife.com.au the specifications include:

Nikon Creative Lighting System (CLS): Advanced Wireless Lighting supported with built-in flash, SB-910, SB-900, SB-800, or SB-700 as a master flash and SB-600 or SB-R200 as remotes, or SU-800 as commander.

The downloadable brochure as well as the printed brochure I received yesterday omit "built-in flash".

I could not find the setting in the menu of the D3200 I handled yesterday.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Can the built-in flash be used as a master flash?

On the sites nikon.com.au and mynikonlife.com.au the specifications include:

Nikon Creative Lighting System (CLS): Advanced Wireless Lighting supported with built-in flash, SB-910, SB-900, SB-800, or SB-700 as a master flash and SB-600 or SB-R200 as remotes, or SU-800 as commander.

The downloadable brochure as well as the printed brochure I received yesterday omit "built-in flash".

I could not find the setting in the menu of the D3200 I handled yesterday.

No the built in flash cannot be a master for external units. Hence the need to use another flash as a master..or the SU-800

 

[awaldram]

It a shame really Nikon has the crown Jewels when it comes to remote flash controls with their CLS.

If only they'd implement controller functions in their lower models.

I fail to see how this neutering improves sales as people would be much more inclined to use a d4 if they could use s d3200 et al for test runs.

But by the time you've added an external controller you may as well brought two upper bodies (maybe that's the point).?
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[Tom_N]

It a shame really Nikon has the crown Jewels when it comes to remote flash controls with their CLS.

If only they'd implement controller functions in their lower models.

Why would they give away the crown jewels in the lower models?

P.S. – You don't have to buy a $6000 D4 body to get CLS. You can get CLS in an $850 D90 body – or get a hot-shoe-mounted SU-800 CLS commander for $250.

I fail to see how this neutering improves sales as people would be much more inclined to use a d4 if they could use s d3200 et al for test runs.

A professional who is looking for a backup for a D4 (a full-frame body), will very likely want another full-frame body. That would make it easy to move lenses between cameras without having to deal with changes in the field of view. That means that a professional would want at least a D700 or a D800 as the backup body. Putting a feature into a D3200 body would not make it any more attractive for backup use.

On the other hand, the more features that you take from the D90 and D7000 (both crop-sensor cameras) and put into entry-level cameras like the D3200, the less reason a novice or enthusiast photographer would have for purchasing a D90 or D7000. It is exactly things like pentaprism-based viewfinders, better external controls, ability to act as a CLS commander, etc. that entice people to select the enthusiast-level bodies over the entry-level ones.

 

[blue_cheese]

I suspect the only way the D3200 built in flash can master is for flash that supports optical slave mode (SU4)

 

[TFergus]

It a shame really Nikon has the crown Jewels when it comes to remote flash controls with their CLS.

If only they'd implement controller functions in their lower models.

I fail to see how this neutering improves sales as people would be much more inclined to use a d4 if they could use s d3200 et al for test runs.

People say that about the camera they choose, and not the next model up that would have cost them more.

They have to make different models for different people, which means you can't include all the upgraded features in the low end model... or they would just sell one model of camera... period.
That's why the D5100/3200 have crippled controls, lack of top LCD, etc.
That's why the D7000 has crippled FPS, AF, AEB
That's why the D300s only has a DX sensor.
That's why the D800 has crippled FPS

If all the features they had were in a D3200, they wouldn't need (or sell) the other models.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

It a shame really Nikon has the crown Jewels when it comes to remote flash controls with their CLS.

If only they'd implement controller functions in their lower models.

I fail to see how this neutering improves sales as people would be much more inclined to use a d4 if they could use s d3200 et al for test runs.

People say that about the camera they choose, and not the next model up that would have cost them more.

They have to make different models for different people, which means you can't include all the upgraded features in the low end model... or they would just sell one model of camera... period.
That's why the D5100/3200 have crippled controls, lack of top LCD, etc.
That's why the D7000 has crippled FPS, AF, AEB
That's why the D300s only has a DX sensor.
That's why the D800 has crippled FPS

If all the features they had were in a D3200, they wouldn't need (or sell) the other models.

I have to agree with awaldram on this one it is a shame Nikon strip out "so much" on this model (and the D5100)

You expect less controls and less custom settings and features, but wireless via onboard has become a pretty much standard feature on bodies of all price points.

Folks won't care about the lack of top LCD on these models. The D7000 has the majority of stuff people will want, few are going to really be upset by 3 frame bracketing either.

Small things don't matter that much

Nikon's biggest problem though is the D5100 adds only a few bits v the D3100 and D3200 not enough IMO

Out of all the makers Nikon strip out far more than any other camera maker out there, by a notable margin too. We all know you're not going to get pro spec in a budget body, but Nikon's flash system is very decent it's counter productive to deny lower end users access to wireless via onboard and auto FP..auto FP is a big omission too every other DSLR on the market at every price point has it, bar Nikon

I've poked fun at Nikon for stating my Minolta budget 35mm film bodies are better all round and not crippled, and it's the truth they wipe the floor with Nikon and that was over a decade ago. Minolta added wireless from before the mid 90's, Nikon are way way behind..even Canon have it now on the 600d

Yes it does matter because if your thinking were right nobody would update from a 600d, but they do in big numbers because higher models do offer more..but the 600d offers quite a bit for the price. You don't have to cripple models to make higher up ones attractive.

One reason why IMO Nikon are still not no.1 they could be

 

[TFergus]

It a shame really Nikon has the crown Jewels when it comes to remote flash controls with their CLS.

If only they'd implement controller functions in their lower models.

I fail to see how this neutering improves sales as people would be much more inclined to use a d4 if they could use s d3200 et al for test runs.

People say that about the camera they choose, and not the next model up that would have cost them more.

They have to make different models for different people, which means you can't include all the upgraded features in the low end model... or they would just sell one model of camera... period.
That's why the D5100/3200 have crippled controls, lack of top LCD, etc.
That's why the D7000 has crippled FPS, AF, AEB
That's why the D300s only has a DX sensor.
That's why the D800 has crippled FPS

If all the features they had were in a D3200, they wouldn't need (or sell) the other models.

I have to agree with awaldram on this one it is a shame Nikon strip out "so much" on this model (and the D5100)

You expect less controls and less custom settings and features, but wireless via onboard has become a pretty much standard feature on bodies of all price points.

His complaint was only the wireless... and all that means is he buys an SB-700 instead of an SB-600.

Folks won't care about the lack of top LCD on these models. The D7000 has the majority of stuff people will want, few are going to really be upset by 3 frame bracketing either.

No top LCD and only 3 frames of bracketing are deal breakers for me.

There are other missing features on these cameras also, but while some won't care about a missing top LCD.... I doubt many people that buy a D3200 or D5100 go in with the intent of shooting flashes off-camera. I would be willing to bet most of them have never heard of it, or are only shooting their kids during soccer games, etc.

Small things don't matter that much

Nikon's biggest problem though is the D5100 adds only a few bits v the D3100 and D3200 not enough IMO

I agree. They do seem very similar.

My only point is that they have to draw the line somewhere. You say adding the flash commander would be no big deal for Nikon, but others would say adding the top LCD would be no big deal for Nikon, or adding another frame or two per second is no big deal for Nikon.... by the time you add up all the "it would be no big deal for Nikon to add..."
You would end up with a D4

 

[Mako2011]

It a shame really Nikon has the crown Jewels when it comes to remote flash controls with their CLS.

If only they'd implement controller functions in their lower models.

I fail to see how this neutering improves sales as people would be much more inclined to use a d4 if they could use s d3200 et al for test runs.

People say that about the camera they choose, and not the next model up that would have cost them more.

They have to make different models for different people, which means you can't include all the upgraded features in the low end model... or they would just sell one model of camera... period.
That's why the D5100/3200 have crippled controls, lack of top LCD, etc.
That's why the D7000 has crippled FPS, AF, AEB
That's why the D300s only has a DX sensor.
That's why the D800 has crippled FPS

If all the features they had were in a D3200, they wouldn't need (or sell) the other models.

I have to agree with awaldram on this one it is a shame Nikon strip out "so much" on this model (and the D5100)

You expect less controls and less custom settings and features, but wireless via onboard has become a pretty much standard feature on bodies of all price points.

What? Standard feature at all price points? You mean outside of Nikon? Do all Canon cameras now do wireless off camera flash control? Are you speaking SU-4?

His complaint was only the wireless... and all that means is he buys an SB-700 instead of an SB-600.

Folks won't care about the lack of top LCD on these models. The D7000 has the majority of stuff people will want, few are going to really be upset by 3 frame bracketing either.

No top LCD and only 3 frames of bracketing are deal breakers for me.

There are other missing features on these cameras also, but while some won't care about a missing top LCD.... I doubt many people that buy a D3200 or D5100 go in with the intent of shooting flashes off-camera. I would be willing to bet most of them have never heard of it, or are only shooting their kids during soccer games, etc.

Small things don't matter that much

Nikon's biggest problem though is the D5100 adds only a few bits v the D3100 and D3200 not enough IMO

I agree. They do seem very similar.

My only point is that they have to draw the line somewhere. You say adding the flash commander would be no big deal for Nikon, but others would say adding the top LCD would be no big deal for Nikon, or adding another frame or two per second is no big deal for Nikon.... by the time you add up all the "it would be no big deal for Nikon to add..."
You would end up with a D4

Wow, I agree with every thing T-man said here. Gonna be a good day The only downside is if he's right, unlikely I'll end up with a D4

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

His complaint was only the wireless... and all that means is he buys an SB-700 instead of an SB-600.

Well SB-700 plus another flash but I find many times using the onboard and just one flash is great for some tasks.

We know the flash can do it, Nikon just stripped the firmware out on that side.

No top LCD and only 3 frames of bracketing are deal breakers for me.

I doubt they are deal breakers for most people.

Top LCD not something I expect on lower end bodies, you can work with the back LCD I have for some time on the Minolta's I have

There are other missing features on these cameras also, but while some won't care about a missing top LCD.... I doubt many people that buy a D3200 or D5100 go in with the intent of shooting flashes off-camera. I would be willing to bet most of them have never heard of it, or are only shooting their kids during soccer games, etc.

So if that is correct why do Canon have wireless with the 600d? (which is actually cheaper then the D3200 right now) Why do Sony have it across the board on all models, why do Pentax have it across the board on all models?

It's not hard to "spot the odd one out" here is it?

That's before we mix in Auto FP or lack of again only maker not to do this.

Also the only maker without direct access to ISO and WB, only maker to not be compatible with it's AF lenses from the mid 80's onwards.

Heck the D3200 can even do basic exposure bracketing. Sony users bemoan the meagre + - 0.7 stop bracketing (a hang over from the KM days) and rightly so. Nikon can't even put that stupidly basic item in a camera that costs over £550 body only.

I agree. They do seem very similar.

I think Nikon will have to up the game a bit with the D5200 it needs quite a lot more esp in the above areas, and I would hope for a D90 type camera with a swivel screen a genuine mid level body.

My only point is that they have to draw the line somewhere. You say adding the flash commander would be no big deal for Nikon, but others would say adding the top LCD would be no big deal for Nikon, or adding another frame or two per second is no big deal for Nikon.... by the time you add up all the "it would be no big deal for Nikon to add..."
You would end up with a D4

Wrong I disagree completely look at the rivals at this price point none have a top LCD, so nobody is going to really care at this price. FPS well again that's gone up to 4fps but I doubt it's a big issue for some. Sony and Pentax play higher fps on budget bodies, Canon don't..and it does not seem to hurt them

Nikon are wrong on this one and I'll continue to be critical of their crippled strategy it's plain out of date. Seriously not even adding bracketing was damn sad it's 2012..talk about mean or what!

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

What? Standard feature at all price points? You mean outside of Nikon? Do all Canon cameras now do wireless off camera flash control? Are you speaking SU-4?

The EOS 1100d does not have wireless flash via on-board, but it has Auto FP/HSS (and a DOF preview button!) To be honest I'm not crazy about that model bit cheap feeling too..

But it's currently £289 body only pretty damn cheap so maybe that can get let off on that a bit at least

Maybe you don't expect a lot for £550 body only, I expect a bit more than Nikon are offering. And if you do some research bar that model every DSLR has wireless via on-board..except..surprise Nikon

D40 days that camera sold for £299 with a kit lens so you could forgive a few cut down bits at that price. 2012 and the latest Nikon budget model is far from dirt cheap. It's a 24mp sensor and not a lot else it has to be said

 

[Mako2011]

D40 days that camera sold for £299 with a kit lens so you could forgive a few cut down bits at that price. 2012 and the latest Nikon budget model is far from dirt cheap. It's a 24mp sensor and not a lot else it has to be said

Don't forget the D40 sold for $568.83 (in 2012 dollars) and the D3200 is 699.99. So for an additional $131 you get much better capability in camera and lens. A better deal today I think considering the dollar/pound to yen ratio.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Don't forget the D40 sold for $568.83 (in 2012 dollars) and the D3200 is 699.99. So for an additional $131 you get much better capability in camera and lens. A better deal today I think considering the dollar/pound to yen ratio.

Yesterday's budget DSLR's were then, this is now. There is a trend (by no means digital only it started with 35mm SLR bodies) of some of the higher end bits to make their way down to the lower ones, better metering, more advanced AF, some features. Controls still reduced, small VF all these are expected.

Today's Nikon budget DSLR's offer very little in terms of pure functionality v the older ones. Nikon have stood still where others have moved forward.

They're still in their cut down 35mm SLR mode and what worked then just looks dated now. I can't recommend these bodies to anyone unless you're def not needing the extra bits. As soon as you get a bit more serious you'll hit a brick wall and they're a poor investment for a learner photographer too.

 

[blue_cheese]

His complaint was only the wireless... and all that means is he buys an SB-700 instead of an SB-600.

Well SB-700 plus another flash but I find many times using the onboard and just one flash is great for some tasks.

We know the flash can do it, Nikon just stripped the firmware out on that side.

No an SB700 is all that is needed, that flash has a SU4 remote mode so a D3100 (and by extension I assume) a D3200 can trigger it with the oboard flash when the SB700 if off camera. It will even TTL in SU4 mode.

This had to be the most cryptic named and ambiguously documented feature ever, I realized that I can work the flash off camera with my D3100 after a month of owning the flash and read between the lines on someone's post on this forum. I think most D3100 users get so discouraged that it will ever fire a off camera flash that they dont bother reading that section of the flash manual, and even if they do it is completely unclear that SU4 mode is that. I dont know since when "SU4" is a commonly understood term, but someone with an entry level camera is unlikely to guess it means Off camera flash fires when it sees on camera flash firing.

 

[Mako2011]

Don't forget the D40 sold for $568.83 (in 2012 dollars) and the D3200 is 699.99. So for an additional $131 you get much better capability in camera and lens. A better deal today I think considering the dollar/pound to yen ratio.

Yesterday's budget DSLR's were then, this is now. There is a trend (by no means digital only it started with 35mm SLR bodies) of some of the higher end bits to make their way down to the lower ones, better metering, more advanced AF, some features. Controls still reduced, small VF all these are expected.

Today's Nikon budget DSLR's offer very little in terms of pure functionality v the older ones. Nikon have stood still where others have moved forward.

And they still benefit. Better IQ, Better metering, Better color choices (red/black ) Better Jpeg engines, Better AF units, better video, more internal features like HDR.....all with no loss in practical functionality vs the model they replace. Seems a business model that still is going strong.

They're still in their cut down 35mm SLR mode and what worked then just looks dated now. I can't recommend these bodies to anyone unless you're def not needing the extra bits. As soon as you get a bit more serious you'll hit a brick wall and they're a poor investment for a learner photographer too.

I simply don't see it that way as history and experience seems to be proving otherwise...Only Canon and Nikon really seem to know how this market (APS-C and FF only) works and in many ways....Canon is simply playing catchup (that always seems a back and forth though ). Look to units sold as a comparison to support or not support you thesis and lets us know how the actual numbers fall. That would be the real tell. I don't think you will see a major change in the type of business model you're looking for in Nikon for some time. I most certainly might be mistaken but I see no need for it nor any future indication.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

And they still benefit. Better IQ, Better metering, Better color choices (red/black ) Better Jpeg engines, Better AF units, better video, more internal features like HDR.....all with no loss in practical functionality vs the model they replace. Seems a business model that still is going strong.

Not at the expense of basic functionality though
Adding gimmicks such as HDR isn't helping for some types of shooting.

I simply don't see it that way as history and experience seems to be proving otherwise...Only Canon and Nikon really seem to know how this market (APS-C and FF only) works and in many ways....Canon is simply playing catchup (that always seems a back and forth though ). Look to units sold as a comparison to support or not support you thesis and lets us know how the actual numbers fall. That would be the real tell. I don't think you will see a major change in the type of business model you're looking for in Nikon for some time. I most certainly might be mistaken but I see no need for it nor any future indication.

You didn't reply to my question why are Canon no. 1 when they don't follow this business model?

Nikon won't change it in 10 years you will still have bodies which can't do very basic things, which is why they are not worth buying for most people.

It would help if you get onboard, because complacency helps nobody ;-)

Nikon won't get no.1 spot with such a dated strategy. Of course DPR and other review sites will overlook this and heap praise, it's the OP and folks like them who ask questions and discover these little secrets that make the camera a lot less appealing.

 

[Mako2011]

And they still benefit. Better IQ, Better metering, Better color choices (red/black ) Better Jpeg engines, Better AF units, better video, more internal features like HDR.....all with no loss in practical functionality vs the model they replace. Seems a business model that still is going strong.

Not at the expense of basic functionality though
Adding gimmicks such as HDR isn't helping for some types of shooting.

If there was a basic functionality loss between the D5000 to the D5100 or say the D3100 to the D3200, I could see your point. At present though, that does not seem the case. Nor does it seem the case going forward. I could be wrong though and if the D5200 loses functionality vs. its predesessor, in that case I would certainly concede the point.

I simply don't see it that way as history and experience seems to be proving otherwise...Only Canon and Nikon really seem to know how this market (APS-C and FF only) works and in many ways....Canon is simply playing catchup (that always seems a back and forth though ). Look to units sold as a comparison to support or not support you thesis and lets us know how the actual numbers fall. That would be the real tell. I don't think you will see a major change in the type of business model you're looking for in Nikon for some time. I most certainly might be mistaken but I see no need for it nor any future indication.

You didn't reply to my question why are Canon no. 1 when they don't follow this business model?

They are indeed no 1 regards total numbers sold. Just as Apple is in some areas. A fan base often helps in area of reduced funcionality. Currently, I see no threat to Nikons move forward though the mirrorless world may put pressure on them to inovate.

Nikon won't change it in 10 years you will still have bodies which can't do very basic things, which is why they are not worth buying for most people.

They seem to sell every body they produce....I don't expect that to change and I simply do not mind as the models seems to work and potential output quality is ever increasing.

It would help if you get onboard, because complacency helps nobody ;-)

Not the case here as the Nikon line is greatly inproved over last generation. Just my opinion though. What they are doing seems to facilitate that. I'm simply happy with it.

Nikon won't get no.1 spot with such a dated strategy.

This is a time of Camera divisions going away. I see nothing to indicate that Nikon and Canon aren't simply still improving the product lines. I do see mirrorless as a place Nikon will need to put more empahsis though.

 

[kgbruce01]

Of course DPR and other review sites will overlook this and heap praise, it's the OP and folks like them who ask questions and discover these little secrets that make the camera a lot less appealing.

How do you manage to get through your day, knowing that you know so much and everyone at DPreview and Nikon know so little?

If only they would hire you, then all would be right in the photography world. You could single handedly do away with those stupid, useless, so hard to handle 'toy' cameras, and make everyone in the world buy the top of the line model. $3000 entry for every new photographer. What a great idea.

Then life would be perfect, no?

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

How do you manage to get through your day, knowing that you know so much and everyone at DPreview and Nikon know so little?

How do you manage to post such a pointless pile of dribble which does not even attempt to stick on topic?

DPR will rave about the D3200 as they have all the other models prior to that even the D3000 which nobody liked DPR loved it. They can't critique a Nikon entry body to save their lives but hey it's up to them if they want to do brochure reviews

Nikon are just doing what they have done feature stripping on lower end models and relying on the big number to sell it. Works for ill informed buyers, but doesn't work for those who know a camera is more than a sensor.

If only they would hire you, then all would be right in the photography world. You could single handedly do away with those stupid, useless, so hard to handle 'toy' cameras, and make everyone in the world buy the top of the line model. $3000 entry for every new photographer. What a great idea.

Time to wake up a bit and get with the debate old bean..nobody suggested a pro level spec. You obvously didn't do your homework because this stuff Nikon throw out is crippled to hell, and yup I make no apologies for pointing that out.

Then life would be perfect, no?

Sigh.....

 

[Patco]

No an SB700 is all that is needed, that flash has a SU4 remote mode so a D3100 (and by extension I assume) a D3200 can trigger it with the oboard flash when the SB700 if off camera. It will even TTL in SU4 mode.

TTL is not possible in SU-4 mode.
It will only start & stop the slave flash in unison with the triggering flash.

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