HS20 best value?

[alexisgreat]

It's littered all over the forum. Sorry to burst your bubble but proprietary batteries are just an obvious attempt for camera manufacturers to cash in. No Lithium can match a good Eneloops or Rayovac Hybrid. Ive used AAs for 10 years or more that still work. Im not about to buy a bunch of $50 Lithium batteries that will all die around the same time whether you use them or not!
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com

 

[alexisgreat]

I bought the HS20 specifically because it uses AA batteries (there were other reasons also.) Check out the HS30 vs HS25 thread for stories about proprietary batteries no longer being manufactured----- this is why we have AA battery grips and AC Adapters

http://www.tvtechnology.com/...-pros-and-cons-of-lithium-ion-batteries/203844

Avoid heat. Storage anywhere where the temps get above 120 degrees is very bad. Direct sunlight, closed cars, and tropical climates are all hostile environments that can lead to battery failure.

Treat them gently. Lithium-ion batteries are more likely to suffer life-threatening injuries from accidental drops and rough-handling than their predecessors. Cushion them with cardboard or foam during storage and transport. And try really hard not to drop them.

Be partial to partial-discharge. Lithium-ion batteries are not susceptible to memory-effect and will be helped, not harmed, by frequent recharging after partial use. Fully discharging a Lithium-ion battery on a regular basis will shorten its life.

Don’t store them fully-charged. Batteries that will not be used for 30 days or longer should be stored at a charge level of 40%-50%. Storing fully-charged Lithium-ion packs for extended periods will shorten their useful life.

Use them or lose them. Unlike their Ni-cad and NiMH cousins, Lithium-ion packs have a useful life of two to three years from the date of manufacture, whether or not they are used. Don’t buy spares. Order replacements when they are needed. Check the manufacturing date stamped on the pack when you receive them to be sure you are getting fresh stock.

Don’t demand too much power. Lithium-ion packs aren’t able to supply as much current as other camera bricks and will fail if repeatedly asked to operate beyond their rated capacity. The smallest camera batteries, much-favored by folks who shoot handheld, should never be used to power an on-board light that draws more than 15 or 20 watts.

Retire that tired battery. Replace a Lithium-ion pack as soon as there is a noticeable decrease in run-time. This is almost certainly an indication that one of the pack’s cells has failed. A defective cell is likely to develop an internal short and that spells trouble for the entire pack.

A word of caution. Lithium-ion packs have been known to fail in a spectacular manner. They can explode, catch fire, and generate great quantities of noxious white smoke. Internal circuits are designed to prevent faults like over-charging and overuse from causing problems by automatically disconnecting the battery, but only the user can prevent damage from external forces.
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com

 

[rattymouse]

The most electrically demanding cameras in the world use lithium batteries. Canon's 1D series cameras as well as Nikon's equivalent. Pros would never, ever use AA's.

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http://fujifilmimages.aminus3.com/

 

[alexisgreat]

Not a pro photographer (no interest in it like that) and have no interest in carrying a camera that is so heavy lol. Also, quite a few pros (not that I care what they think or do) carry AA battery grips.
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com

 

[PAUL TILL]

Ive seen reviews where people who had the Canon SX40 and the Fuji HS20 complained that the pictures seemed more watercolor-like with the Fuji..... did you guys find this to be the case, when comparing the Canon with the Fuji? They even said this when they compared the Canon to the Nikon P500 or Sony HX100V. But I saw at least one admission of a reviewer saying he only used the Fuji in AUTO mode because he didnt want to mess with settings. I gather he should have turned NR down and set it to EXR HR? In the images posted, there was loss of detail in foliage (it looked mushy) and blocky patterns in the sky. I'll try to find the site.
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I had the HS10, HS20, HX100V and tried the SX30. The Sony had the best IQ by far.

Paul.

 

[alexisgreat]

Did you use EXR mode with the Fuji? Why all these reports that the Sony is the worst with the worst resolution (lots of smearing of fine detail) and bad for doing anything at tele because it cannot resolve distant detail well? I dont care about the IS I always use a tripod anyway or movie mode.
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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com

 

[alexisgreat]

Based on this review here, Id think the SX30 had the best image quality out of the cameras you mentioned. At higher ISO though, the Fuji retains much more detail than any of the other cameras:

Note how dark the Sony images are and how they really destroy fine detail at higher ISO Pro Low Light is also better than any other camera's stacked modes.

EXR mode---- really unchallenged image quality here.

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http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com

 

[Boo]

I have narrowed down large zoom to these:

Fuji Film FinePix:
HS20EXR 16 MP - $329.88

[...]

S3200

[...]

Canon PowerShot SX40 HS

[...]

Kodak EASYSHARE Z990

When I went through this process a little over a year ago, I settled on the then HS10 and later changed to an HS20 (a significant improvement for me). But I would recommend going through the feature lists (and maybe download the manuals for your shortlist) of each model with some care - and also get to a camera store and handle them all too. The HS10 at the time was miles ahead for me in terms of its feel in my hands, a Pentax I also considered (briefly) was light and didn't even feel like a camera, the HS20 has a nice weight and feel for me.

But the detailed feature list is the important one and I was jolly glad I did that process as I found things like the Kodak I was considering (might have been a different model a year ago) didn't have the ability to lock exposure separate from focus in semi automated modes like Aperture Priority and that's something I do a lot as I work and would have made it unworkable for me. So think about features you like and photography habits you have and this may shorten the list for you from the outset.

--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio & tutorials
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http://imageevent.com/boophotos/ - most recent images
http://boojewels.blogspot.com/ - blog

Please do not amend and re-post my images unless specifically requested or given permission to do so.

 

[Boo]

Comparison between Nikon P500 and Fuji HS20

http://ps4land.lightshedder.com/2011/05/23/nikon-coolpix-p500-fuji-hs20-vs-canon-sx20is/

He pretty much summarises the HS20 - it's just not at its best at default settings - but presumably Fuji added RAW support and a host of settings adjustments because they anticipated that it would be an enthusiasts camera and not always to be used as a point and shoot - this chap just chose an unsuitable camera for his personal critera - if he doesn't want to PP - at all. Yet he claims a massive amount of effort to sort them out in Lightroom - yet just lowering NR and sharpening in-camera and a quick action/script to sharpen in PP would have sorted it for him with minimal effort.

While the images look good, spectacular even, at smaller sizes and resolutions, even with every effort to process the files for best effect in Lightroom, they too often looked more like paintings than photographs at anything approaching full resolution…an effect that was obvious in even an 8.5×11 print. Folks who use and love the camera claim that with proper settings (using the camera at 8mp, and tweaking a bunch of other stuff) you can nurse some truly spectacular images out of this camera , but if I had wanted to be nurse I would have gone to school for it. I wanted a camera that I could pretty much use out of the box

--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio & tutorials
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music portfolio
http://imageevent.com/boophotos/ - most recent images
http://boojewels.blogspot.com/ - blog

Please do not amend and re-post my images unless specifically requested or given permission to do so.

 

[vbhr]

Yeah, the 16MP 'full res' mode is fairly smeary unless under optimum conditions. EXR modes though can dynamically adapt resolution so that it only takes full-res pix when appropriate.

 

[alexisgreat]

Thanks, Boo! So it isn't even necessary to shoot in 8 MP mode, and a massive image quality improvement can result with lowered sharpening and noise reduction at full resolution also? I've also heard to set it to Astia mode, which improves noise levels considerably (specifically chroma noise, even better than Provia does.)
--
http://Alex_the_GREAT.photoshop.com

 

[harrisoncac]

I saw the prices of

HS20: CAD$299.99 (before tax)
S3400 (30x Zoom 46,000 dot rear screen): CAD$179.99 (before tax)

These are outgoing models, the prices are going down.

Those who are patient save money.

Best Regards.

Harrison

 

[Boo]

Thanks, Boo! So it isn't even necessary to shoot in 8 MP mode, and a massive image quality improvement can result with lowered sharpening and noise reduction at full resolution also?

I think we're maybe talking about two separate things here - I was responding specifically to his quote:

they too often looked more like paintings than photographs at anything approaching full resolution

By 'full resolution', I took that (in the context of that particular quote) to mean viewing the images on screen at full resolution, not the initial shooting size. The 'watercolour effect' phrase that gets used repeatedly to describe the image appearance arises from the excessive noise reduction done in-camera by the HS cameras.

The 20 allows you to reduce that in-camera (which the 10 didn't) and combined with reduced in-camera sharpening (and I do the same with contrast to protect highlights further too) gives rise to a decently smooth base image which can be sharpened easily in PP (and contrast boosted to taste) - and if you like to work as I do with selective sharpening, allows you then to not sharpen smooth areas like skies, giving rise to an even smoother result - which was also one of the things he complained about - blocky smooth areas.

The reason to shoot 8MP would be to secure the higher DR settings. For me personally, I prefer the DR advantage to the extra resolution, which for most parts I just don't need for my image uses. So I shoot M size to secure better DR and lower in-camera settings to give rise to a smoother, non-'watercolour' appearance, image.

They're still not pretty at pixel level, but much improved detail and texture without the NR, which then sharpens nicely - all 1:1 pixel crops with finished version below:

I've also heard to set it to Astia mode, which improves noise levels considerably (specifically chroma noise, even better than Provia does.)

I can't say that I'd looked at it in respect of chroma noise as I just don't like what it does to images - it changes the tonal curve of images and I don't personally like the effect. I prefer to add any colour or saturation effects in PP so that I can control them. I've used it a couple of times in really flat low light (at dusk etc.) to lift images a little, more as an experiment than a routine technique, but I've not examined it from a noise perspective - if anything, my initial reaction would be to suggest that it actually makes granular noise worse.

--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio & tutorials
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music portfolio
http://imageevent.com/boophotos/ - most recent images
http://boojewels.blogspot.com/ - blog

Please do not amend and re-post my images unless specifically requested or given permission to do so.

 

[Daniel Lowe]

Did you use EXR mode with the Fuji? Why all these reports that the Sony is the worst with the worst resolution (lots of smearing of fine detail)

Because it probably is, Paul is the only person here that seems to think otherwise, though I suspect he is just stirring the pot.

and bad for doing anything at tele because it cannot resolve distant detail well? I dont care about the IS I always use a tripod anyway or movie mode.
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The HS 20 has proven to be a very good camera for those that spend the time to master it, I don't think you could go wrong with the price they are currently at.

 

[Daniel Lowe]

Thanks, Boo! So it isn't even necessary to shoot in 8 MP mode, and a massive image quality improvement can result with lowered sharpening and noise reduction at full resolution also?

Absolutely yes, full res can be used with good results (and more detail) when the light is suitable, I found it gave slightly more detail for landscapes.

I often just leave the camera in 'M' size which gives very low noise images for a superzoom (with access to PASM), the dynamic range is my second most used EXR mode.

I've also heard to set it to Astia mode, which improves noise levels considerably (specifically chroma noise, even better than Provia does.)

For JPEGS I prefer Astia because I think it has the contrast/colour about right, Provia can be very useful for shadow detail but can look a tad flat in certain light, the film 'bracketing' mode is very useful for times when you aren't sure.

The most important thing is to crank the noise reduction down and the sharpening to at least half and then gently adjust in PP though even then this isn't always necessary.