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Lens Debate and Katzye consideration

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Josh Jones

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Currently, I am debating a few options and would like some of your opinions. First off, on my list of lenses wanted is an UWA and a fast short/mid tele prime.

My current gear
  • D7k
  • D60 (going to sell)
  • 35 1.8
  • 18-55 (possibly will sell with the D60)
  • 55-200
  • SB-600
Lenses I am looking at
-short/mid tele prime
----Nikon 85 1.8D
----Sigma 85 1.4
----Nikon 85 1.4D
----chipped Rokinon 85 1.4

My thoughts regarding the above list, even though I would love to have the 85 1.4G, I am only a hobbyist and cannot talk myself into spending that much money on a prime lens at this focal point for what I want to do. That is the reasoning I did not include it on the list. Now, I could see myself spending that much on a 24mm lens, but it is just to close to my 35 for me. I have somewhat excluded the Sigma and Nikon 1.4's, but keep them on the list and am mainly considering the nikon 1.8 or Rokinon. They are both more appealing mainly b/c of price and I would purchase a second wide angle lens in addition. I have been debating purchasing the Rokinon and if I have a hard time manually focusing, I may purchase a kaytzeye as it looks like a straight-forward install. However, I dont want to purchase a lens to end up not being happy and turning around and buying the more expensive one anyway. I do know that I could sell the lens (yet, I am sure a MF only Rokinon would be harder to sell than the Nikon). Also, I really like the small size of both the Rokinon and the Nikon 1.8. I believe I would be happy with the Nikon 1.8, but I really love the creaminess of the 1.4's I keep seeing. Originally, I was afraid of a MF 85mm lens, but after reading other peoples comments and seeing photos taken, I think it would be something that I would get accustomed too. Heck, I do find myself not happy with the AF system in low light many times and adjusting it myself, but at least I had it to assist me.

Briefly, the wide angles that I am considering are
  • Sigma 8-16 (fairly expensive, but extremely wide and have read good reviews on it)
  • Rokinon 14mm prime (MF doesnt bother me here, but the focal length does possibly)
  • Tokina 11-16 (however, I am leaning more towards the Sigma above)
  • Possibly one of the 10/12 - 24's, but kind of eliminated them even the the 24mm would be nice at times
In summary, what would you guys recommend as I cannot make my mind up as I dont have the opportunity to play with many of these lenses before purchasing and I feel that is what would allow me to answer the above on my own. My options are
1) Nikon 85 1.8 + Rokinon 14mm or possibly a cheaper wide angle zoom
2) Rok 85 + either the Sigma or Tokina above (prob sigma)
3) Nikon 85 1.4d or Sigma 85 1.4

Also, I have been trying to find more pics and info on the katzeye regarding its use with AF lenses, if you have one, how is it when you use an AF lens . Another worry is regarding the "blackout," I read that at slower apertures, this will occur and I dont always shoot at large, fast apertures, sometimes I want more DOF. In addition, the fastest my zooms get when at farthest focal length is 5.6.

Thank you and sorry for such a long winded post (I am starting to think that I dont have the ability to make short posts though)
 
When I was buying a UWA lens I went for the one that was widest and was very happy with it . Mind you, at the time that was a Sigma 10~20. I have not used anything newer and I have since moved to FX, but I'm sure I'd get the Sigma 8~16. It's the widest, it gets good reviews and I'm happy with my previous Sigma purchases.

The 85mm area is I have delved in before and have just started to look at again. I should point out I will be getting the Nikon 85mm f1.4G which you have already ruled out based on cost. The only other lens I seriously considered was the Sigma. I have used the Nikon 85D and it is very good in the f2~f5.6 range but I found a few things bothered me about it - too much CA wide open, big lens hood that didn't reverse when not in use, no AFS. It was a good lens though. Very sharp @ f2 and lovely bokeh. You might want to wait for more feedback from D7k users, but I'd go for the Sigma.

--
http://www.andrewsandersphotography.co.uk
 
I have only a D70. I use a katzeye with AF and MF lenses, and have noticed that the AF system has some error detecable by the katzeye on most focuses (most of the time I ignore them, occasionally I'll manually fix them). My katzeye has both the split prism and the micro prism and on a crop body viewfinder it uses a fairly sizeable portion of the frame, but I think it's worth it most of the time. If you could find a screen that was just a doughnut of microprisms, that would probably be my ideal focusing screen (they took me a little longer to understand but are easier to see, and I find them more useful).

The only time I've ever blacked it out was with a teleconverter on a lens that needed to be stopped down manually (f/16 and below). I didn't get the ultrabrite treatment.
 
Added a Katz Eye screen to my D80 a couple of years ago. Still glad that I did. In manual mode I was always way off in my focus, especially at the wider aperatures. I only noticed this when the AF died on my 50mm f1.4 lens.

Screen is considerably brighter than the focusing screen of my old Minolta SLR. On the downside, the Katz Eye screen is not as good for manual focus.
 
Hold off if you can - rumors indicate we might see an 85/1.8 or 85/2.0G lens in the first quarter of next year, and I would expect it will be much better than the current 85/1.8 AFD.

-m
 
nelsonal said:
... I use a katzeye with AF and MF lenses, and have noticed that the AF system has some error detecable by the katzeye on most focuses (most of the time I ignore them, occasionally I'll manually fix them).
Click to expand...
Why would the Katzeye affect AF at all? The AF sensors aren't above it in the prism area as I understand the D7000.

Only way I could see it affecting AF if it were to reflect some odd lighting pattern downwards through the mirror and striking and confusing the AF sensor below somehow which seems unlikely.

Mack
 
GMack said:
nelsonal said:
... I use a katzeye with AF and MF lenses, and have noticed that the AF system has some error detecable by the katzeye on most focuses (most of the time I ignore them, occasionally I'll manually fix them).
Click to expand...
Why would the Katzeye affect AF at all? The AF sensors aren't above it in the prism area as I understand the D7000.

Only way I could see it affecting AF if it were to reflect some odd lighting pattern downwards through the mirror and striking and confusing the AF sensor below somehow which seems unlikely.

Mack
Click to expand...
I think he meant that the AF was off, and he could not tell with his OEM focusing screen (which led to out of focus results) but he could tell with Katzeye, allowing him to correct the errors. I have a Katzeye, and can say the same thing: even though I don't use (much) manual focus stuff, having the focusing screen does help to verify that AF is dead on.

Cheers
--
--Wyatt
http://photos.digitalcave.ca
All images (c) unless otherwise specified, please ask me before editing.
 
Yep, it lets you see quite a few of the times when the AF system doesn't do a perfect job, and either shoot or fix it manually. Recall the spread of very good camera and lenses in the recent lensrentals blog article.
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/10/notes-on-lens-and-camera-variation

About 1/3 of the way down is a section on AF variation, with a chart showing an index of center and total sharpness of the same lens AF several times. With a split prism, one is much more likely to notice those less than optimal focused shots before the shutter is pushed. I couldn't see these (and still can't tell outside of the microprisms) with the stock focusing screen.

That doesn't mean the AF system is broken, just that like everything there's some variance, it's small but occasionally noticeable.
 
My advice: Install a Katz Eye screen, then experiment with used manual focus lenses.

MF lenses are far cheaper than AF lenses, and you can sell them for about the same as the purchase price. Set aside a fixed amount of money (say US$500 to $1000) and buy MF lenses. If you want to buy another lens, you have to sell one. This forces you to make hard decisions. After a year of this, you'll have experienced many different lenses and will have a pretty solid foundation of understanding what works for you.

It is a lot of fun, and you get to play with some real classics. At some point, you will know exactly what lens to get. For me, the 85mm f/1.4 was a revelation. All I use these days are f/1.4 primes and my pro zooms are gathering dust.

--
Ken Elliott
Equipment in profile.
 
I have the D700 with the Katzeye screen.

I started with the Rokinon 85mm f1.4. Fantastic lens… wide open optically it is right there with the Nikon 85mm f1.4d and in some ways betters it (corners, coma) with a similar creamy bokeh wide open.

Having said that I moved to the Nikon 85mm f1.4D to get the autofocus. I shoot a lot of quick candids of moving kids near minimum focal distance. Doing that wide open means you have about an inch (literally) of DOF. Nailing the focus on a moving kid at f1.4 with MF is tough, my keeper ratio wasn't great. Stopping down to f1.8 or 2.0 really improved the in focus keepers with the Rokinon.

The keeper ratio for those fast moving subjects at f1.4 was much higher with the Nikon 85mm f1.4d using AF.

BTW, one of the places you can see some differences in the Bokeh between the Rokinon and Nikon is when stopped down. If there are bright points of light in the frame you will see the shape of the diaphragm on the Rokinon more than on the Nikon. For me shooting in low light stopped down is a rare condition though. In bright light I use a ND8 to be able to stay wide open.

Shawn
 
MasterOfGoingFaster said:
My advice: Install a Katz Eye screen, then experiment with used manual focus lenses.

MF lenses are far cheaper than AF lenses, and you can sell them for about the same as the purchase price. Set aside a fixed amount of money (say US$500 to $1000) and buy MF lenses. If you want to buy another lens, you have to sell one. This forces you to make hard decisions. After a year of this, you'll have experienced many different lenses and will have a pretty solid foundation of understanding what works for you.

It is a lot of fun, and you get to play with some real classics. At some point, you will know exactly what lens to get. For me, the 85mm f/1.4 was a revelation. All I use these days are f/1.4 primes and my pro zooms are gathering dust.
Click to expand...
I'm all MF lenses but see it very differently. I went ManualFocus with a lot of angst and it was like giving up a pacifier (called a 'dummy' in Australia). Took me months to stop worrying.

It had a simple rule, it had to give me something better than I had. It had to be worth the effort and the loss of AF. And it was for me.

The katzeye is only useful when your eyes cannot focus. This is important. If you cannot focus with MF lenses then a katzeye is going to be of little help. The katzeye is for when your eyes cannot focus ...do you follow?

You also have the issue of fast and slow lenses as the Katzeye and others have a different screen for either.

Ant
ɹǝpun uʍop puɐl ǝɥʇ ɯoɹɟ
http://oneant.com.au/
 
Member said:
do you follow?
Click to expand...
I don't. I originally got a katzeye for my D70 because there were situations where it was very difficult to determine where the exact focus is, particularly low light or low contrast. I suspect some of that is because the viewfinder is so small. I have a D7000 now with a much better viewfinder and will have to see how well I can manual focus again.
 
Also, when there's lots of details at a long focal length, I tend to focus in and out to try and zone in on the subject, but there is always a range on the focus ring that looks right, but I know the focus is changing and the correct focus is in there somewhere . With this screen I just look to see if my target is "shimmering."

(just thinking through scenarios I've encountered)
 
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