HD Wildlife camcorder

Alton (TN)

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I've read somewhere that a 20-22x optical zoom exist on some camcorders but I have not found a link for it. I am looking for a camcorder that performs well in low light for birding. It would be a plus if it could do 1080P at 60 but IQ would be more important than speed. This is a hobby for me so I need something that is affordable up to maybe $3500 USD. I have a 5D2 with nice glass. I'm looking for something though that would have great AF in video.

Can anyone make a recommendation with specs close to the above?

TIA

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Alton
 
I'm not aware of any smaller reasonably priced camera with these kinds of specs. I would honestly use the 5D that you already have and get a long lens for it. Also be aware that at such long lens shots the auto focus will have considerable trouble focusing on things because of the compression and shallow depth of field and will more then likely float back and forth. Your hands would do a better job of focusing. On a program that I am currently working on we are using Sony EX-3's with a 22x broadcast tv lens mounted. No autofocus on that and the rig costs upwards of $20K. The cameras in the price range you are looking at have an intermediate zoom that is neither wide enough or long enough.
 
nSome budget camcorders offer incredible zoom (> 70x) because they have tiny sensors. However, the camera will shake too much, even on a tripod, at those lengths, and it will be hard to spot or track an object without wobbling awful. On the other hand, 800mm lenses for a 5D will cost a fortune and a curse to lug about. No matter what your telephoto reach, wildlife shots will be constrained by obstructions, haze, back-lighting, or the preference of some to prowl at dawn, dusk, or night, and then to nap under cover or shade during mid-day. Nature has endowed creatures with a suburb instinct to avoid cameras.

There are cheap criter cams with time laps or remote control that, if placed near a spot where the creatures frequent, may obtain better results than from afar. The only trick is to climb up that tall neighboring flimsy tree or fragile cliff to place and recover the camera. Or you may have to sit and a sweltering blind and refrain from swatting mosquitoes and flies for hours until your subject appears--or doesn't.

It's no secret, either, that some speclacular shots rely on bait. Bird feeders may be the most common form.
 
I have considered the SX40, but not necessarily for video. It seems to be a great little camera and if it had camera raw I would be all over it.

I love the quality of the video out of the 5D2 but AF leaves a lot to be desired. When I'm shooting things that don't move, like the bird feeder, the 5D really shines even when the focus is off a bit for the birds that visit.

My Canon GL2 focuses great, but I'm moving up to HD and the other concerns I outlined. Mainly, IQ and reach if possible. I used to video HS football with the GL2 and I could keep it focused on the football from when it left the quarterbacks hand until the receiver caught it. I had good eyes then, but now I have diabetes. I still think I could follow a bird, but I know I can't run up and down the sidelines anymore.

I guess I just watch to much of the National Geographic channel and I wonder how they are getting some of the close clean shots of birds and other wildlife unless they have a system with great reach. Sometimes when they zoom out it seems like they are half a mile away.

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Alton
 
I guess I just watch to much of the National Geographic channel and I wonder how they are getting some of the close clean shots of birds and other wildlife unless they have a system with great reach. Sometimes when they zoom out it seems like they are half a mile away.
You are correct, they can be very far away. However, I don't think you realize the difference in equipment here. For the older documentaries they generally used Super 16 with some big lenses mounted, for more recent work broadcast tv cameras. Generally, TV cameras with a standard broadcast lens is about 44x (22x normal) using the built-in doubler, for more money you might use a 36x also with a built in doubler (72X!), that is about the limit for something in the field (otherwise you move to box lenses). Note that none of these options offer auto focus, so focusing by eye is an acquired skill. I have shot video of surfing with my 7D using a 2x adapter and an old canon 70-300mm MKII lens (not a great lens) and the results were more then acceptable, but focusing was a bit of a pita.
 
Thanks Jim.

Very interesting site. It seems like quite a few are migrating or at least suggesting migration to DSLR for video. Maybe I should be looking into buying a follow focus system and learning how to use it. It would be quite a feat in the field though.

At least one mentioned using the GL2 which I own. It is getting long in the tooth, but I love the reach it has. It is not HD and requires firewire and MiniDV tape which I'm trying to move away from. Otherwise I would love to have a new version of it updated to HD and CF cards.
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Alton
 
My recommendation, not necessarily in order, would be the ff:
  • Panasonic GH2
  • Panasonic SD90 or TM90
If you want the best IQ the GH2, at this time, is it. I won't discuss its merits as you already know or can find that out easily. The downside is higher cost and the need to get longer lenses w/c further adds to the cost. You may be limited to around 700mm or so in FL (35mm equiv) all around.

If you want more reach at an really affordable price, it would be the SD90 or TM90. The difference between the two is that the TM90 has a built-in 16gb flash memory, while the SD90 does not. But the are the same camera. These babies have a 20x zoom and an intelligent zoom of 40x. It's intelligent zoom past 20-22x is digital BUT image is still good unlike older digital zoom. It is not just useful but really quite good. It starts at 28mm (35mm size equiv). Do the math and you can literally go 1,600mm in reach! The amazing thing is the stabilization of these cameras are very, very good, even while you are nearing its longest FL. 28mm-1,600mm is a pretty good range.

As an added bonus, for U$250 (went down in price from U$350 early on), you can put a 3D attachment there and shoot in 3D. This may not be of use to you, but if you have a 3D TV or just want to experiment, later on, this is a feature that you can opt into.

Moreover, the amazing thing is the price. All now are below U$500. The SD-90 is even listed at around U$350 at BHPhoto. You may not like the very small size though. But since you mentioned about weight and size limiting you in another post, this may be good enough for you.

The sensor is small at 1/4" but it is very good in low light. It's in the same pedigree of the 1/3" typical sensors in video, maybe even better in some instances. Canon, Sony, and Panasonic have all made great strides in sensors in the past years that is why they can get away with atrocious low light performances even as they make the sensors smaller.

As for bokeh and shallow DOF, as you reach 300mm or more, even a small sensor will give you a decent blurring of the background. The important thing is that these cameras can reach 1,000mm range. You can go to youtube or vimeo and see how these cameras perform. They can be quite good for such small cameras. You can check out the more expensive TM-900 or TM-750 if you want more control or other features. This will tip you at U$1,000 price range. But the sensor is still 1/4" and about the same in IQ as these lower end siblings. They are not slouches either, so don't dismiss them easily.

As for Canon's video offering. They are all very good. Even better than these panny's. Their sensor is larger at 1/3" or 1/2.5" or so in some other models. Their M400/M41 are very good if you are in a tight budget. Of course, there are the other higher end models (GX10 I believe). But as the sensor becomes bigger, the reach is compromised or is lesser. Many of their models come in 30mm or so at wide then hit around 390-500mm at most. And since they are not going to give you more reach unless you put some extenders there. They are not interchangeable so, you can't get lenses there. Only attachments, w/c may or may not be a factor as they may impact IQ more than true lenses.

Hence, I tend to gravitate more towards the Panasonics. I wish they have larger sensors in the 1/3" range, but their lineups are all basically 1/4" and they seem to be doing well. Go for the GH2 if you want more pro features or control.

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  • Caterpillar
'Always in the process of changing, growing, and transforming.'
 
Thank you for the explanation. I've spent most of the day looking at the Pannys you listed amoung others. I would almost be tempted on the $216 70X zoom. I just wish it had a viewfinder. I'm concerned that it might be difficult tracking fast moving small birds using just the LCD. I'm already having that trouble with that on the 5D2. But at least it would give me more reach on static birds.

I've come to the conclusion that I definitely need a camcorder over a DSLR for the rocker zoom alone. I've made the mistake of looking at some of the videos of the Canon XF-305. It is pretty much exactly what I want - except for $7500.

Oh well, I need to take a cold shower and start all over.

Thanks again!
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Alton
 
The Panasonic TM900 with intelligent zoom goes to 700mm (35mm equivalent). It delivers sharper pictures than any other camcorder or DSLR less than $3500. Period. It has a viewfinder and rocker zoom. [It has a better lens than the cheap TM90, apart from the added features like viewfinder and focus ring for precise manual focus].

This video shoots some wildlife (birds, crane).

http://vimeo.com/33826041

This is a 700mm frame grab from the 108060p video :



It is selling now for $599.
 
The Panasonic TM900 with intelligent zoom goes to 700mm (35mm equivalent). It delivers sharper pictures than any other camcorder or DSLR less than $3500. Period. It has a viewfinder and rocker zoom. [It has a better lens than the cheap TM90, apart from the added features like viewfinder and focus ring for precise manual focus].

This video shoots some wildlife (birds, crane).

http://vimeo.com/33826041

This is a 700mm frame grab from the 108060p video :



It is selling now for $599.
I agree with this model if an EVF is needed. I'm not sure if the tm-600 or tm-750 has viewfinders but if they are, they are also good candidates.

BTW, very good shot of the bird! It shows how good the camera is to get such quality from a 2mp frame grab.

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  • Caterpillar
'Always in the process of changing, growing, and transforming.'
 

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