Canon G12, Olympus EP1, or Panasonic GF1 for Pro DSLR User?

geb54

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I'm a happy Nikon shooter with my D3s and assorted lens, if I want to point and shoot I pull out my iPhone. However I'm looking for a camera for those travel and vacation days when I don't want to lug around the big stuff. I still want things like RAW, manual controls, and Aperture Mode but don't care about lots of extra features. Just a light weight camera with high quality results I can easily carry in my hand or pocket (albeit a big pocket).

I thought the Canon G12 was the answer but I'm now confused by all the various models and options for the 4/3rd format. My budget is $500, so Nikon's new V1 and some of the higher end Panasonic and Olympus models are out. I don't need to go over the top with interchangeable lens - I'll take the D3s when I need that - just want high quality vacation shots.

Where do I go - what do I do? I've read the DP Reviews - they all look great. I'm confused....
 
Although I own a good bit of m4/3 gear, I am very happy with my Canon G11 as a carry-around camera. It was the only camera I took on my last real vacation.

The one downside to the G11 is speed -- it is sloooooow compared to my Panasonic m4/3. Not a camera for action.

On the plus side: Very nice image quality for online and moderate-size prints, the one lens covers pretty much all my needs, excellent image stabilization and small size.

Turns out the little Canon is in some ways better in low light -- better IS and a faster lens (compared to m4/3 zooms) offset the disadvantage of the smaller chip, plus it will focus in lower light (without the annoying assist light) than my Panasonic.

Of course m4/3 offers more lens choices and will make nicer large prints -- if you want to carry extra lenses and make prints.

Just my personal opinion. YMMV.

Gato

--
After 40 years of Canon and Nikon I'm now using a camera named after my toaster.

Silver Mirage Gallery:
http://www.silvermirage.com
 
Since you put G12 in the list, I am going to say the Nikon P7100. It could use the flash from your DSLR if you wanted and it would have the same RAW format, etc. You might as well stick with what you know.

The P7000 had some negatives, but the P7100 seems to have addressed them all and is every bit as good as the G12.

As to the mini-system cameras, if you wanted to lug along a system, you'd be bringing the DSLR, right? Keep it simple.
 
I shoot with a Nikon D200 and 17-55mm f/2.8, 80-200mm f/2.8, and 12-24mm f/4. I bought a GF1 in January, 2010 with the 20mm f/1.7 pancake prime for a couple of reasons: We were expecting our first baby and I wanted a quality camera with manual controls that was more portable and that could shoot video. I expected to like the GF1, but I was surprised at how much! Part of it is the selection of lenses. The 20mm f/1.7 pancake and the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 are excellent, and I also like that I can use my Nikon primes on it with an adapter and manual focus. The 14-45mm zoom is also quite good for a kit zoom. The controls are pretty good (definitely geared towards the PASM shooter) and the camera is responsive... a far better shooting experience than the Panasonic LX2 I once owned. I do have the LVF1 viewfinder, which is low resolution but still usable for composition in bright outdoor light. I still use the LCD for composing in a lot of situations though.

Of course the recently announced GX1 with the LVF2 would be even better, but considerably more expensive. The G3 is another option, but you sacrifice some external controls in favor of touchscreen controls. The GF1 is still a good camera though. You might be disappointed in the high ISO performance, but I'm okay with it. Of course it compares to my D200 much better than it would compare to your D3s. It will compare well against your other options though.
 
I'm curious why an s95 or s100 isn't in your list? What you're describing is pretty much exactly what the camera is for - same sensor as the g12, f2.0 lens (at wide angle)...
I still want things like RAW, manual controls, and Aperture Mode but don't care about lots of extra features. Just a light weight camera with high quality results I can easily carry in my hand or pocket (albeit a big pocket).
...yes, yes, and yes (though aperture priority mode is not terribly useful on a compact because all apertures have nearly the same depth of field on a smaller sensor for most practical purposes) on the s95/s100 as well.
I thought the Canon G12 was the answer but I'm now confused by all the various models and options for the 4/3rd format. My budget is $500, so Nikon's new V1 and some of the higher end Panasonic and Olympus models are out. I don't need to go over the top with interchangeable lens - I'll take the D3s when I need that - just want high quality vacation shots.
(moved this part)

I'm a happy Nikon shooter with my D3s and assorted lens, if I want to point and shoot I pull out my iPhone. However I'm looking for a camera for those travel and vacation days when I don't want to lug around the big stuff.
I assume that you're considered just buying one of the entry level Nikon dslr models and using just one cheaper/lighter lens on that?

There's a few reasons not to get m43rds -
1. You just end up with another system that needs extra lenses.
2. If you're carrying more than one lens it's hardly portable anyways.

3. They do have a prime low light lens, and a short zoom lens that make m43rds "big pocket pocketable", and this is an older pic, but with any sort of longer zoom lens m43rds is not in any way pocketable -





4. With the older sensors, a m43rds camera with a zoom lens will give you worse low light performance than the best compacts (the ones with an f2.0 or f1.8 lens, like the s95/s100, lx5, or xz-1). This may have changed with the newer panasonic sensors, but those are only in the very new Panasonic gx1 (not the Olympus models, or the older Panasonic models). I mean in the very small m43rds size - the larger Panasonic g3 has the newer sensor to, but it's bigger and pricier.

If you just carry a m43rds with their f1.7 prime lens (can't zoom) that can be worth it.

I break it down like this -

1. If you can live without zoom and want low light performance, an older model m43rds with the f1.7 pancake lens would give you the best low light performance for relatively cheap...thought the f1.7 lens is $350 itself, so I don't know if it's in your price range. There are other non-zooming options that will give you better low light performance in a similar size, but they're noteably more expensive - the Fuji x100 fits a dslr sensor an f2.0 lens in the same sized package but it costs $1200. The Samsung nx200 is my favorite, has an f2.0 pancake lens, but would also cost around $1200 altogether.

2. If you do need zoom, my favorite g12-sized camera on paper (I don't own one), if you're willing to run your shots through a raw converter, is the Olympus xz-1. It has a great lens on it - sharp, even in the corners according to test shots and reviews - something other compacts and most cheaper dslr lenses don't have. And it's aperture values for low light are - amazing, f2.5 at the far end of the zoom. (Though note that the best compacts even at the best settings are ok but not fantastic in low light.)

3. However...I don't own any of these.

I own a Canon s100.

Because everything else is to big. The s100 is small enough to fit in a jeans pocket and carry around all night like that (granted, it takes up the entire pocket, but I carry mine pretty much 24/7). It has the same sized larger than average sensor as the xz-1/g12/etc (the s95 has exactly the same sensor as the g12).

It also has an f2.0 lens (at wide angle), shoot raw, full manual controls, etc etc etc.

It's currently the quintessential "dslr compliment" camera because of all these factors, and it's size. It's image quality is the basically the same as the larger compacts (some of them may have slightly sharper lenses, or better corners, but overall the differences are tiny). Your d3s is a big, big camera, so this might not be true for you, but a lot of times people have come back and said once they bought an s95/s100 they found they never really used their larger "compacts" like their g12 any more - if they wanted something portable they grabbed their s95/s100, if they wanted better quality they grabbed their dslr with a single lens...owning an s95/s100 they found their was no situation where their g12-sized camera's degree of portability was useful. Now not 100% of people agree with this, but a ton of people did come back and say they found this to be the case.
 
Good input everyone, thanks. I hadn't realized the Nikon 7100 was out, I had discounted the 7000. My objectives, given my investment in the D3s and lens I have and all that they do, is $500 or less, form factor to fit in a large pocket, or at least easy to carry about, RAW format at a minimum, and otherwise as close as possible to DSLR quality and typical features given the other objectives.

Good point about 4/3rds - it is just another system. I have no intention of either exceeding my budget - I'd rather use that money on more DSLR stuff - or carrying multiple lens for another camera. In fact, despite getting caught up a bit on the electronic through the lens display, this is one of the 4/3rd negatives for me. The kit lens are "big" and no way I'll spend even more on the pancake lens that would keep the camera easy to carry around....I may be answering my own question, but really do appreciate the input.

The high ISO is not such a big deal, I already have the ultimate (IMHO) camera for that purpose, its about "portability."

I also have a D90 and a D300s - a DSLR is not the answer - in fact I want to sell the D90 body. I also have an iPhone 4, granted not a great camera but sufficient for low end point-and-shoot always on me kind of things. I'll check out the S90 and S100, but I thought (and may well be wrong) these were basically PASs?

Kinda brings me back to the G12 or the 7100 (but again will check out the s90/100 as well). Another big plus for these is the zoom factor.
 
I'll check out the S90 and S100, but I thought (and may well be wrong) these were basically PASs?
Almost all cameras nowadays are kind of point and shoots, even dslr's have auto modes.

Let me put it this way - the s95/s100 is no more or less a point and shoot than the g12. Both have full manual controls, shoot RAW...etc etc. As I mentioned the s95 and g12 actually use the same sensor.

The s95/s100 also has both a front control dial and a rear control dial for controlling manual settings, as well as a couple of other buttons. The front ring is customizable, this sends the default control for the front ring to the back ring...etc etc. One can have full manual controls nearly on hand by using the front ring for aperture, the rear ring for shutter speed, and assigning the shortcut button on the back to bring up the iso menu.

Point being the s95 is a miniaturized g12 (again, with the same size sensor though). As I mentioned, it's very popular as a dslr compliment for people who already own a dslr but need something more portable for times when they're not "seriously" shooting, or want to have a camera but don't know if they'll actually use it. I mean - it's not going to match up to your d3s, but nothing is, lol.
Kinda brings me back to the G12 or the 7100 (but again will check out the s90/100 as well). Another big plus for these is the zoom factor.
The s100 z increased the zoom range to 120mm-equivalent (the s95 was...105mm I think). The g12 only does 140mm.

I know you said high iso was not a big deal, but for me at least I find that there's often a direct correlation between low light and not wanting to bring a big camera - dinner, bar, "going out" in the evening - all things I would be less likely to bring a dslr, all things that have low light.

Here's a pic I took with my s100 in average indoor lighting (I find that 1/60 f2.0 iso1600 is about average). Note that I did tweak this pic a bit turning off any detail noise reduction, and it's no d3x. (I took this shot as part of a comparison between the s95 and s100).





But - it's a lot better than an iPhone, and totally acceptable for a snapshot, and in my opinion way more than good enough for a "remember this" kind of picture. If I had shot it at 24mm (at 28mm best aperture is f2.2) I could have gotten 1/60.

1 stop worse from the lens would have pushed the iso into iso3200 which is a noteable step up (worse) in noise.

I mean obviously you know what you're shooting, so maybe these kind of shots don't matter to you (just like I don't need a ton of zoom as after the first few wildlife pics I got bored with it, and there's a bazillion of them on the internet anyways).

I still think (and again, zoom could certainly be more important to you) that from everything I've seen (and I've seen a lot of reviews and debate between the s95 and xz-1) if I was getting a bigger camera, the xz-1 seems like it has the best lens you can get on a compact. Low light aperture aside, it's surprisingly sharp and (if you shoot raw) has the best detail that I've seen from a compact. That's what imaging resource says, and if you look at dpreviews studio pics (the raw conversion ones) they show the same thing. I mean it's not any sort of "giant" difference, but frankly it's the only compact camera that produced a pic in the studio shots that was actually sharper than the s95 (you have to choose the xz-1 in one of the dropdowns) -
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/q42010highendcompactgroup/page14.asp

Here's the imaging resource review to, note that they're doing out of camera jpg, the xz-1 definitely benefits from processing raw -
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XZ1/XZ1A.HTM

People have claimed the lx5 lens, or the g12 lens...etc etc are somehow sharper than the s90/s95/s100 but frankly I've always thought they were a little full of it. Look at the studio shots, couldn't see any meaningful difference. The xz-1 was the first camera where I could actually see any sort of noticeable improvement in detail.

But - the other cameras really just cannot beat the s95/s100 for it's portability. :D
 
Hey Geb , you need to get to a local store for a feel of that S95 before a bargain slips through your fingers . Forget the flash mount of the G12 , once you get the S95 in your hand you will be smitten , I promise ! They are going cheap to clear the way for S100 .
--
Roygbiv One life ! Live it !
 
Well...lol, I'm just sayin' - one of the improvements of the s100 over the s95 is actually that it "feels" a lot better in your hand. Easier to grip coating, new rubber thumb grip on the back, front indentation for gripping...just fyi. :D If you don't like the feel of the s95 in your hand, be sure to try to the s100 while you're there, it's fairly different. :D
 
On my way:-). Still want to at least be somewhat loyal and check out Nikon 7100 as well.

I appreciate the input. Canon owes a couple of you a marketing fee :-)
 

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