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Mike Warren

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This is what this forum used to always be about, IMO. Think about everything you know and have learned on this forum. If we change it, redefine it or split it where will people go to learn the topics I listed below? nand had a very good point. If we split the forum and separate the Retouchers from the general software issues, where will the beginners go to learn if what essentially may happen is that we separate the experts with the most knowledge from the rest of the general photo-editing crowd.

There was nothing wrong with how it was a few years ago, when all these topics were answered by the diverse group that frequent here. Some Retouchers here do have the knowledge and experience to answer any of the questions below and yet they may not even own a camera! The need to split the forum surfaced when people complained that this forum is about discussing digital darkroom techniques and not about playing (retouching) or showing off their work (showing examples of retouching). It is the Pro Level Retouchers/Photo-Editors that have the most knowledge and expertise that can answer the beginner's questions. If you set aside the complaints about off-topic posts and playing, what is left in this forum is a pretty diverse group of hi-level hobbyists/professions with a vast amount of collective expertise in all areas concerned outside the realm of camera hardware and photography techniques. I bet many people here would want to remove half of the topics below to the other forums. I question if people in the other forums can answer them. I don't think that the PC-Talk group may have a lot of people there than can discuss the difference between Pro-Photo, aRGB and sRGB color profiles. I could be wrong. I look forward to your comments. It of course would be ridiculous to list all these topics in the general listing of the forum, but if there was such thing as a sticky thread here, then it would not be a bad idea.

I don't know the best way for you to answer my question. Maybe put 'yes' or 'no' next to the topic (that it should stay in this forum) and if you put 'no' then which forum should the topic go and why.

Thanks for your participation.

Mike

------------------------------------------------------

Retouching Form

A place to discuss everything else "other than" camera hardware, camera accessories, camera settings, general photo techniques, computer hardware, computer operating system related topics, file recovery, phone cameras, tablets and apps, printers and printing, studio lighting, posing, digital video, news, and other off-topic non-photo related topics.

Topics and Techniques covered in the Retouch Forum:

Photo-Editing
Scanning
Restoration
Colorization
Photo-Editing Software
Photoshop
Gimp
PaintShopPro
Plugins
Actions
Scripting
Lightroom
Aperture
Elements
File Resolution
Color Management
Color Profiles
Monitors
Color Calibration
Noise Reduction
Sharpening
Selective Focus Techniques
Photo-Art Techniques
Digital Manipulation
Composites
Cropping/Composition
Photoshop Tools and Filters and Techniques
Layers
Layer Modes
Layer Styles
Masking
Virtual Framing
Image Enhancements and Toning
Fashion Retouching
Batch Processing
File Management
Color Matching
Brushes
Textures
Photoshop Level Upgrades/New tools
Black & White conversion techniques
Web Galleries, Photo-Sites, Web Tutorials, Books
Printing Labs
Web File Storage
File Formats
HDR
Tone Mapping
Panos
Lens Correction
Color Fringe Correction
 
Nand.
--

 
It used to be a fun place to while away the hours, with some really great users, but since the name change, a few weeks ago, quite a few seem to have lost interest, and wondered off .

I think the last name change was responsible for this, and IMHO should quickly be reverted.

Every one seems to be running around like headless chickens wondering what to re name it, to get it's pizzazz back, well I have news for you all, "put it back," cause , if it ain't bust don't fix it.





--



http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x223/eirianfa2002/?albumview=slideshow&mediafilter=images

http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x223/eirianfa2002/Komandoo%202008/?albumview=grid
 
I actually agree with you Mike. I'm not a photogapher by any ol' means (Dad use to be more then an enthusiast, but not me; don't have the right eye for taking captures). Snapshot expert I am though. lol

The passion I do have is in the realm of retouching, but not all aspects. Don't think any one person has that. Some are fantastic at restoration (I certainly am not). Some have extremely good skills at extraction (not me). Some can explain to you Dan M's Lab colors and colorspace theory and so forth and so on, but I only have a fleeting knowledge of that stuff too. Some like the artistic side of retouching (now this is sort of where my passion lies, but folks like Ray G. is a class all his own). Some like to experiment with images taking it to places no one would ever expect (even getting closer to my passion; lol). There is so many different catagories and all require the right tools and in the digital darkroom it's software. I see no problem actually discussing these aspects of retouching either. I just figure that those, including me, who like to play with pictures are a little disappointed that not enough folk have been sharing of late towards this end, but nearly all of us, including me, has some form of camera so there is really no excuse other then to have the desire to complain (get that way myself sometimes; lol). Like this topic too Mike. Sometimes, we need to get stuff off our chest and then life goes on and we all are happy because of it. :)

--



Psalm 109:8
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%20109:8&version=KJV
 
Mike:

I have no problem with anything that you have said and I agree with all of the topics you have listed that were, and still should be, included in a retouching forum. It would be interesting to know (since I am getting on in years and have a poor memory) exactly what the description was for the original "Retouching Forum". I'll bet that it was not limited to simply DISCUSSING retouching tools and techniques. There was undoubtedly wording that included posting of images for: critique, help with problems, others to use for the purpose of improving their retouching skills, showing exactly how to produce certain effects,etc..

Yes, we have always discussed software, hardware, plugins, and so forth as they are inseparable from retouching itself and therefore need to be discussed in such a forum. It is just that, since the ridiculous name change, it seems that the majority of posts concern hardware and software, with fewer and fewer having to do with retouching.

So I wish you luck, as I know how difficult it is to please a majority of people whenever any kind of change is proposed. I support any name change if I feel that it accurately reflects what this forum once was and not what it has deteriorated to.

Regards...Allen
 
Many things are directly or remotely related to photo editing/retouching (images, photo editors/software, technical/artistic aspects, hardware). And I think it's very unlikely that a post not in any ways related to those subjects will end up here. If it does chances are it will not be answered. I don't read all the posts when I visit here. I read the subject lines, and decide from there. I'm shure you do the same. But at the same time I'm quite happy if a forum member is interested and qualified to answer a question from someone even though it's not entirely pertinent. Being helpful is good for the 'business'...

We need a lot of people coming here with pictures they would like edited in one way or another; with questions they would like answered. We need a forum name where they will find us easily (no big deal), talented and knowledgable members, new members learning the trade, and a friendly attitude. And patience. 'They will come...'

Let's not forget that numerous new forums were added a few months ago. People can post their pictures in all of these new forums. That has contributed to diluting the 'business'.

--
Claude
 
and they all belong here.

Perhaps we need to know why older posters left.

I've heard some say it was because of too many simple questions asking to compare two software packages/versions and where the answer could be found by a simple search.

I've heard others say it was because "they burnt out".

Whatever it was, we need to reduce departures, and keep the learning and retouching going.

--
Jim
 
Change the name back to Retouching Forum. This forum has it's own little niche and we need to keep it that way. As Michael pointed out, there has been a change since the name was changed a few months back. With the name Retouching, it says it all. Retouching to me is how to work with different retouching software. I am not sure I like the way this whole site is going but what I do know is it will be very different than it was before.
--
Melissa



http://www.atncentral.com
 
the forum maybe lacking people because:
  • YouTube and other sites that have popped up over the years. Seems most photoshop news on how to do what is found by making a search on YouTube.
  • most cameras give out software and people are fine with that.
  • photoshop is to hard to learn for the average point and shoot crowd.
great list Mike.

MM looks like their better days are over too. Amazon needs to buy MM and combine the 2.

--
Mike
 
Photo-Editing - DEFINATLY
Scanning - TOO "HARDWARE"
Restoration - YES
Colorization - YES
Photo-Editing Software - SEEMS UNAVOIDABLE
Photoshop - YES
Gimp - YES
PaintShopPro - YES
Plugins - YES
Actions - YES
Scripting - YES (You could also explain to some of us what the hell this is!)
Lightroom - LIKE ACR...PART OF THE DEAL
Aperture - SURE, WITH LINKS TO OTHER, PERHAPS MORE HELPFUL FORUMS
Elements - OF COURSE (with links to Conchita ;-) )
File Resolution - YES
Color Management - YES
Color Profiles - YES
Monitors - ONLY TO PROVIDE MORE HELPFUL LINKS
Color Calibration - YES
Noise Reduction - YES
Sharpening - YES
Selective Focus Techniques - YES - WITH LINKS TO MORE HELPFUL FORUMS
Photo-Art Techniques - YES
Digital Manipulation - YES
Composites - YES
Cropping/Composition - YES
Photoshop Tools and Filters and Techniques - YES
Layers - YES
Layer Modes - YES
Layer Styles - YES
Masking - YES
Virtual Framing - YES
Image Enhancements and Toning - YES
Fashion Retouching - YES
Batch Processing - YES - ALONG WITH OTHER HELPFUL LINKS
File Management - ONLY TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ELSWHERE
Color Matching - YES
Brushes - YES
Textures - YES
Photoshop Level Upgrades/New tools - YES - WITH LINKS TO OTHER SITES
Black & White conversion techniques - YES
Web Galleries, Photo-Sites, Web Tutorials, Books - YES
Printing Labs - YES
Web File Storage - YES, BUT LINKS WOULD BE MORE HELPFUL
File Formats - YES
HDR - YES
Tone Mapping - YES
Panos - YES
Lens Correction - YES
Color Fringe Correction - YES

--
Alastair

http://www.pbase.com/alastair
'Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.'
...Bob Seger
 
AMAllan said:
Scanning - TOO "HARDWARE"
Click to expand...
Thanks for you input Alastair.

I kind of agree with you on this one. It might be pretty boring to discuss what new scanners are out and which one to buy, but it is important to understand about file resolution and scanner DPI and whether to scan black & white prints in color or black & white. Those are technical issues that need to be addressed to have the best starting point before you can do any restoration work. Special scanning techniques come into play when prints have textures. Now if you take a digital picture of the old prints with shadowless lighting, then discuss restoration after that, then that eliminates the hardware/scanner part of the discussion completely. You can also take digital pictures of slides with an adapter rather than use a slide scanner if it just a few slides. If you have thousands of slides than you way want to buy a scanner with a chute that holds like 100 or 200 slides for the automation of it.

So the question is, what forum is appropriate to discuss the scanning and restoration of old prints, negative and slides? Maybe it is Pro-Talk or PC-Talk. They might recommend a good scanner and maybe discuss Digital Ice which the scanner software that comes with it that automatically removes dust and lint and color corrects while scanning.

I tend to think if there are retouchers here that do a lot of restoration work, then this is still the right forum to come to. Vikki Hansen is the best person for restoration questions, but she hasn't been to the forum for years. :(

Mike
 
I'd like to hear from more members to see if the general consensus is that we should leave the forum as one forum, dependent on a clearer definition of we discuss and do here as well as an appropriate name for the forum that will not confuse people coming here asking off-topic questions. I think we are on the right track! :)

I think I also defined what we don't discuss here and that there are already established forums for those topics. Anyone want to come up with examples of topics not mentioned one way or another? Topics we don't want to discuss here, but there is not a clearly established forum for it yet? If we don't discuss software here, what software is it that we do not discuss? It is a no brainer where operating systems discussion belongs. We do discuss Photoshop and Plugins. What is left? Is there a better forum for answering the question of Lightroom vs Elements vs Photoshop? The answer is always that it depends on how much the individual is going to need to fix certain things, if plugins are available for the certain software and how many images he is talking about and budget.

Maybe we need a PDF of Frequently Asked Questions to give people or build a FAQ Thread to refer to and that we suggest people read that thread first to see if the answer is there. How many times do we have to tell people to press their Damn Caps Lock Key to get rid of the + thingy to bring back the circle thingy? lol!

If you think that is a good idea, let's start one. It could be like a game. Someone post a newbie question, then the game is to see who can answer the question best, first. Then that person gets to ask the next question. By the tine we are done all the Qs and As will be there.

Mike
 
I actually think they pretty much all belong Mike.

I view this forum as anything involving PHOTO MANIPULATION.

I also have absolutely no problem with people who post their work for "show off" purposes, after all, that is what we do it for, to show others what we can do, and to help others learn.

That is the way it used to be, and they way I liked it.
--
Conrad Birdie
"Aspire to Inspire before you Expire"
 
Mike has brought some sanity to this subject. Reading his list I must agree that all the topics belong and add two. These are smudging and questions relating to the forum or posts in the forum.

I think we all got a little confused by the name change and upset with all the new posters that came in asking questions about software and some off topic subjects. Many of the questions asked had been asked and answered many times before and one wonders if any attempt to do a search for the answers is made.

This aside, ‘a rose by any other name’! Yes the name change has affected the dynamics but things will settle down. The new name may not be the best choice but it’s not way out. While I would like to see the name go to Image Editing I have resolved to live with whatever Simon decides to do.
Claude
 
I feel there are two issues here, The name of the Forum and the content.

I think the name "Photo Editing and Retouching" is a clear, concise and unambiguous name for the form.

The other issue is whether this forum deals with only techniques or discusses sotware, since to a great degree, the two are inter-dependent. Where complications can arise is when someone is having a software installation problem. Do you discuss that here or in the PC or Mac forums? After all, the site operators have chosen to group PC talk, Mac talk, Printers and Printing and this forum under the same heading "Computers and Printing Forums".

I believe topics like "Look at my latest smudge painting" should be in the "Photography and Techniques Forums" and not "Retouching" because, in many instances, they are not original photographs but scans or imports from other sources.

--
WineO said:
To err is Human. To really foul things up you need a computer.
Click to expand...
 
Your list is pretty comprehensive. I found this forum, including all those topics, to be just as I would wish. It is the Digital Darkroom, in which we can discuss, among others:
  • the merits and demerits of different "darkroom" software;
  • plug-ins;
  • processing techniques;
  • colour management; and
  • similar interests.
It seems to me that they all fit together and frequently cross-reference to each other. I welcome being able to go to the one forum and look at the various threads in the same place. I agree with many others in this thread and in Simon Joinson's thread who ask where exactly the division will fall or which would be the correct forum to post a question on, say, colour correction with certain sofware.
--
jwhig
 
Mike Warren said:
This is what this forum used to always be about, IMO. Think about everything you know and have learned on this forum. If we change it, redefine it or split it where will people go to learn the topics I listed below? nand had a very good point. If we split the forum and separate the Retouchers from the general software issues, where will the beginners go to learn if what essentially may happen is that we separate the experts with the most knowledge from the rest of the general photo-editing crowd.

There was nothing wrong with how it was a few years ago, when all these topics were answered by the diverse group that frequent here. Some Retouchers here do have the knowledge and experience to answer any of the questions below and yet they may not even own a camera! The need to split the forum surfaced when people complained that this forum is about discussing digital darkroom techniques and not about playing (retouching) or showing off their work (showing examples of retouching). It is the Pro Level Retouchers/Photo-Editors that have the most knowledge and expertise that can answer the beginner's questions. If you set aside the complaints about off-topic posts and playing, what is left in this forum is a pretty diverse group of hi-level hobbyists/professions with a vast amount of collective expertise in all areas concerned outside the realm of camera hardware and photography techniques. I bet many people here would want to remove half of the topics below to the other forums. I question if people in the other forums can answer them. I don't think that the PC-Talk group may have a lot of people there than can discuss the difference between Pro-Photo, aRGB and sRGB color profiles. I could be wrong. I look forward to your comments. It of course would be ridiculous to list all these topics in the general listing of the forum, but if there was such thing as a sticky thread here, then it would not be a bad idea.

I don't know the best way for you to answer my question. Maybe put 'yes' or 'no' next to the topic (that it should stay in this forum) and if you put 'no' then which forum should the topic go and why.

Thanks for your participation.

Mike

------------------------------------------------------

Retouching Form

A place to discuss everything else "other than" camera hardware, camera accessories, camera settings, general photo techniques, computer hardware, computer operating system related topics, file recovery, phone cameras, tablets and apps, printers and printing, studio lighting, posing, digital video, news, and other off-topic non-photo related topics.

Topics and Techniques covered in the Retouch Forum:

Photo-Editing
Scanning
Restoration
Colorization
Photo-Editing Software
Photoshop
Gimp
PaintShopPro
Plugins
Actions
Scripting
Lightroom
Aperture
Elements
File Resolution
Color Management
Color Profiles
Monitors
Color Calibration
Noise Reduction
Sharpening
Selective Focus Techniques
Photo-Art Techniques
Digital Manipulation
Composites
Cropping/Composition
Photoshop Tools and Filters and Techniques
Layers
Layer Modes
Layer Styles
Masking
Virtual Framing
Image Enhancements and Toning
Fashion Retouching
Batch Processing
File Management
Color Matching
Brushes
Textures
Photoshop Level Upgrades/New tools
Black & White conversion techniques
Web Galleries, Photo-Sites, Web Tutorials, Books
Printing Labs
Web File Storage
File Formats
HDR
Tone Mapping
Panos
Lens Correction
Color Fringe Correction
Click to expand...
--
DianeR
http://www.pbase.com/ramseyd
 
Quite simply put you dont fix what ain't broken, Revert back to the original name Retouching Forum. Two minutes ago I looked at page one and there are at least 18 topics that bear no relation to either Retouching or Photo Manipulation.

Regards Patsym
 
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