Crop

[Fog Maker]

Do you make a living as a photographer?

Your brain is fine. It's probably that you're just shooting some easy stuff that allows you to take time to zoom, to move or even to change lenses. You'll know what I mean if you try to shoot with a 400mm lens cross the field while people running all over the place and you're shooting away at 10 frames per second. Hey I'll take the lucky few any day of the week.

You can't always capture it just right. This is especially true in case you're shooting sports, action or events that you really don't have a lot of time to stop and compose.

Hmmm... If I have time to focus I sure have time to compose the image.

Maybe I have some sort of brain damage, but when I put my eye to the viewfinder I get into a zone were everything moves in slow motion... And time constraints are usually the least of my worries

(And yes , I am very selective before I release the shutter button - no way I am gonna shoot 100 images, hoping for a lucky few - fast paced action or not)

 

[Skip M]

Quite few People on this forum seem to love to crop their images.
I never understood this. For me compostion and capturing the right
moment goes hand in hand. If I fail at either, the photograph means nothing
to me.

Why do you crop?

(Graphic designers and editors love to mess with just about everything they get their hands on, even when it doesn't make any sense, but that is another story...)

When I shoot, I often leave room to crop because I make prints of my best images. Also, I shoot weddings, and many of those images are printed or put in an album. I leave space to crop because a 3:2 ratio doesn't match an 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 or 11x14, common American print sizes. It also doesn't match, exactly, metric sizes, either.

That being said, there are also many times that I see that an image can be improved by cropping it very slightly to change the composition subtly. Sometimes, I don't see something in an image that needs to go away. For example, I shot a car at a cruise night the other night, long after dark. I had the camera resting on the ground, to get the angle I wanted, a tripod, no matter how short, was too tall. The image was only lighted by the street light above, so the far end of the car was dark to my eye. When I d/l the image, I noticed someone standing at the rear of the car that I couldn't see on site. So, I cropped the tail of the car a bit, and frankly, made it a touch better, composition-wise.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Fog Maker]

Copied my reply from the other thread

Somebody just asked me about this as well.

I loathe cropping, but I do love certain aspect ratios.

Overall I tend to like more of a "widescreen" effect, which is likely due my motion picture background.

Here are some aspect ratios I really enjoy:
3:2
1:1
4:5
16:9
1.85:1
2:40:1
2:1

Oddly you'll notice that the very common 3:4 is not in there. I prefer 1:1 when framing or going wider if I'm looking at that composition. 3:4 is often too subtle for me.

When composing with an aspect ratio crop in mind I'm essentially framing to the edge of the frame on the left and right and attempting to visualize the negative space on the ceiling and floor of the image. I try my best to avoid cropping into the frame to avoid loss of detail/resolution. That certainly is a sticky proposition when it comes to 1:1.

The other solution for me is to just shoot with an anamorphic lens and avoid cropping all together.



But that's a whole different bag of worms.

--
Phil Holland - http://www.phfx.com

Funny you should mention that, since my own background is in filmmaking as well and still counts for about 75 per cent of my 'imaging' income (However, some 15 years ago an author friend of mine asked me to have a go at a portrait for his upcoming book, the publisher liked it and all of a sudden I found myself doing stills on a frequent basis...) Maybe that shared background has something to do with it. Anyway, I share your sentiments regarding aspect ratios and use different grid solutions to get it right, but never after the fact

 

[Fog Maker]

I also would like to stress that I am only saying how things work for me and that I am honestly curious to see other people's approach to the topic at hand.

 

[Jackphotog]

Photography provides a significant portion of my income but what difference does it make in needing to crop or not?

Your brain is fine. It's probably that you're just shooting some easy stuff that allows you to take time to zoom, to move or even to change lenses. You'll know what I mean if you try to shoot with a 400mm lens cross the field while people running all over the place and you're shooting away at 10 frames per second. Hey I'll take the lucky few any day of the week.

You can't always capture it just right. This is especially true in case you're shooting sports, action or events that you really don't have a lot of time to stop and compose.

Hmmm... If I have time to focus I sure have time to compose the image.

Maybe I have some sort of brain damage, but when I put my eye to the viewfinder I get into a zone were everything moves in slow motion... And time constraints are usually the least of my worries

(And yes , I am very selective before I release the shutter button - no way I am gonna shoot 100 images, hoping for a lucky few - fast paced action or not)

 

[hbx2004]

Hi,

I'm not a pro photographer and I don't think my photos are something special -even I've seen worse
Might be important to mention: I shoot landscapes mostly.

Now, no matter how interesting the place I visit might be, I don't take that much photos there. Like I'm thinking: why would I take 99 (almost) equal photos? I always "feel the need" to frame the scene.. I simply can't press shutter button without doing that. At that time, it's like I don't know I can crop later ..like I'm taking final result. Sometimes I think I'm just complicating things.. but I can't help myself not doing it that way.

Anyway, when "developing" photos on PC, I don't feel the need to crop. Of course, it happens I notice some disturbing object near the border of image and then I crop.

That is, I don't think cropping is "bad".. I just don't need doing that much. And I'm very sure, that other kinds of photos (sports, wild animals,..) simply require being cropped.

That's it. Thanks for reading.

 

[Fovea]

Why do you crop?

Four good reasons, well thought of at shooting time:

1. Squares http://www.fovegraphy.com/Squares.php
2. Panoramas http://www.fovegraphy.com/Panoramics.php
3. Fine tune difficult verticality http://www.fovegraphy.com/NewYork-E004-1939.php
4. Properly compose centered AI-Servo shots :

• http://www.fovegraphy.com/Netherlands-E003-8102.php
• http://www.fovegraphy.com/Animals-E003-2909.php

 

[Keith Reeder]

Try a bit of fast sport or wildlife photography (especially in focal-length limited situations) and then get back to us.

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

 

[Skip M]

Try a bit of fast sport or wildlife photography (especially in focal-length limited situations) and then get back to us.

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Heck, just shoot a wedding! ;-)

A lot of people don't see a reason to do it differently from the way they already do it. A lot of people don't see why other people do things differently from them, since there's only one way to do it right. Some people are never wrong.

Since he shot, no, started with film, if he says he never cropped he's lying. If he shot 35mm film, it wouldn't fit an 8x10 piece of paper, if he shot 8x10 or 4x5 large format, it would fit 11x14 and none of them would fit metric versions of same.

I wish I were so self confident as to look at every image and never, ever think it could be improved, that I shot the ultimate version of that shot, right out of the camera. Neither Weston nor Adams went their entire career without cropping an image to improve it...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Fog Maker]

Try a bit of fast sport or wildlife photography (especially in focal-length limited situations) and then get back to us.

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Sensitive topic it seems.

 

[Fog Maker]

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Heck, just shoot a wedding! ;-)

A lot of people don't see a reason to do it differently from the way they already do it. A lot of people don't see why other people do things differently from them, since there's only one way to do it right. Some people are never wrong.

Since he shot, no, started with film, if he says he never cropped he's lying. If he shot 35mm film, it wouldn't fit an 8x10 piece of paper, if he shot 8x10 or 4x5 large format, it would fit 11x14 and none of them would fit metric versions of same.

I wish I were so self confident as to look at every image and never, ever think it could be improved, that I shot the ultimate version of that shot, right out of the camera. Neither Weston nor Adams went their entire career without cropping an image to improve it...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

I was talking about taking all creative decisions in the field/studio
as opposed to at the desk . I also said "to me' - iit doesn't sound all that
inclusive... but carry on

And yeah. regarding print sizes you are making a fool of yourself.

 

[Fog Maker]

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Heck, just shoot a wedding! ;-)

A lot of people don't see a reason to do it differently from the way they already do it. A lot of people don't see why other people do things differently from them, since there's only one way to do it right. Some people are never wrong.

Since he shot, no, started with film, if he says he never cropped he's lying. If he shot 35mm film, it wouldn't fit an 8x10 piece of paper, if he shot 8x10 or 4x5 large format, it would fit 11x14 and none of them would fit metric versions of same.

I wish I were so self confident as to look at every image and never, ever think it could be improved, that I shot the ultimate version of that shot, right out of the camera. Neither Weston nor Adams went their entire career without cropping an image to improve it...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

I was talking about taking all creative decisions in the field/studio
as opposed to at the desk . I also said "to me' - iit doesn't sound all that
inclusive... but carry on

And yeah. regarding print sizes you are making a fool of yourself.

And that should of course read 'making'

 

[IDIV]

So, Foggie, you've NEVER used crop in software, ever? And never ever trimmed a photo produced from film, EVER?

So do you shoot in jpeg and print directly with zero alterations? You NEVER use photoshop or similar because you get it right in camera?

 

[Skip M]

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Heck, just shoot a wedding! ;-)

A lot of people don't see a reason to do it differently from the way they already do it. A lot of people don't see why other people do things differently from them, since there's only one way to do it right. Some people are never wrong.

Since he shot, no, started with film, if he says he never cropped he's lying. If he shot 35mm film, it wouldn't fit an 8x10 piece of paper, if he shot 8x10 or 4x5 large format, it would fit 11x14 and none of them would fit metric versions of same.

I wish I were so self confident as to look at every image and never, ever think it could be improved, that I shot the ultimate version of that shot, right out of the camera. Neither Weston nor Adams went their entire career without cropping an image to improve it...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

I was talking about taking all creative decisions in the field/studio
as opposed to at the desk . I also said "to me' - iit doesn't sound all that
inclusive... but carry on

You said the photograph means nothing to you, no that cropping was important to you.

And yeah. regarding print sizes you are making a fool of yourself.

Oh, in what way? I don't know a single format that fits every photographic print paper on the market. There's 4x8 sure, but that's a rare one for someone to print onand most people who shot/shoot 35mm print larger than that, like, oh, I don't know,...8s10. I'm not surewhat format fits A3.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Fog Maker]

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Heck, just shoot a wedding! ;-)

A lot of people don't see a reason to do it differently from the way they already do it. A lot of people don't see why other people do things differently from them, since there's only one way to do it right. Some people are never wrong.

Since he shot, no, started with film, if he says he never cropped he's lying. If he shot 35mm film, it wouldn't fit an 8x10 piece of paper, if he shot 8x10 or 4x5 large format, it would fit 11x14 and none of them would fit metric versions of same.

I wish I were so self confident as to look at every image and never, ever think it could be improved, that I shot the ultimate version of that shot, right out of the camera. Neither Weston nor Adams went their entire career without cropping an image to improve it...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

I was talking about taking all creative decisions in the field/studio
as opposed to at the desk . I also said "to me' - iit doesn't sound all that
inclusive... but carry on

You said the photograph means nothing to you, no that cropping was important to you.

And yeah. regarding print sizes you are making a fool of yourself.

Oh, in what way? I don't know a single format that fits every photographic print paper on the market. There's 4x8 sure, but that's a rare one for someone to print onand most people who shot/shoot 35mm print larger than that, like, oh, I don't know,...8s10. I'm not surewhat format fits A3.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

You ever heard of white borders?

 

[Skip M]

God, I hate self-absorbed, blinkered, ignorant questions like "why do you crop? I don't have to..."

Heck, just shoot a wedding! ;-)

A lot of people don't see a reason to do it differently from the way they already do it. A lot of people don't see why other people do things differently from them, since there's only one way to do it right. Some people are never wrong.

Since he shot, no, started with film, if he says he never cropped he's lying. If he shot 35mm film, it wouldn't fit an 8x10 piece of paper, if he shot 8x10 or 4x5 large format, it would fit 11x14 and none of them would fit metric versions of same.

I wish I were so self confident as to look at every image and never, ever think it could be improved, that I shot the ultimate version of that shot, right out of the camera. Neither Weston nor Adams went their entire career without cropping an image to improve it...
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

I was talking about taking all creative decisions in the field/studio
as opposed to at the desk . I also said "to me' - iit doesn't sound all that
inclusive... but carry on

You said the photograph means nothing to you, no that cropping was important to you.

And yeah. regarding print sizes you are making a fool of yourself.

Oh, in what way? I don't know a single format that fits every photographic print paper on the market. There's 4x8 sure, but that's a rare one for someone to print onand most people who shot/shoot 35mm print larger than that, like, oh, I don't know,...8s10. I'm not surewhat format fits A3.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

You ever heard of white borders?

Sure, and you leave whopping big ones when you try to print 3:2 on 4:5 paper... You'd really do that? Wow...you really don't care about your photos, do you?
BTW, you're talking to someone who printed his own in a darkroom.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Rick Knepper]

and the rationale for refusing to crop is akin to refusing to use such techniques as bracketing or filters ie be a perfect photographer and do not use these crutches. That's a little bit of good natured hyperbola lest I be taken in the wrong context.

Aside from the reasons already mentioned by others in the thread, I tend to intentionally crop (when necessary) but still maintain the 3:2 aspect. I dunno, call me anal retentive but I like my images to fit the full length and height of my NEC editing monitor (or nearly so) which also doubles as my main display format. I crop unintentionally when I have to straighten a horizon which is almost every time I handhold my camera.

Quite few People on this forum seem to love to crop their images.
I never understood this. For me compostion and capturing the right
moment goes hand in hand. If I fail at either, the photograph means nothing
to me.

Why do you crop?

(Graphic designers and editors love to mess with just about everything they get their hands on, even when it doesn't make any sense, but that is another story...)

 

[IDIV]

So, Foggie, you've NEVER used crop in software, ever? And never ever trimmed a photo produced from film, EVER?

So do you shoot in jpeg and print directly with zero alterations? You dont have and NEVER use photoshop or similar because you get it right in camera?

I missed your reply to this Q, Fog Maker...

 

[Fog Maker]

So, Foggie, you've NEVER used crop in software, ever? And never ever trimmed a photo produced from film, EVER?

So do you shoot in jpeg and print directly with zero alterations? You dont have and NEVER use photoshop or similar because you get it right in camera?

I missed your reply to this Q, Fog Maker...

You and other have gone into some sort of defensive mode,

making it a bit hard to communicate. When you stop put words into my mouth I will do my best to answer your questions.

Have I stated any of those things?

No. I didn't think so...

Since I mainly work toward advertising agencies and such, my images have been altered quite a few times, but that is usually outside my control. And everyone who has worked in the business, knows what I am talking about

There 'magic' for me is when I press the shutter button. I if the image doesn't come out as I have envisioned it, I have failed. There is no hierarchy in my photographs. Every single ray of light is as important as 'the main subject' of any given image.

Of course I 'develop' my images like everybody else.

(Regarding aspect ratios, see one of my replies above.)

 

[Victor Engel]

Why do you crop?

Probably not what you were expecting:

Most recently, there was a bird in the neighborhood that I didn't recognize. I wanted to get a snapshot so I could identify the bird. I got my longest lens, a Canon 100-400 and took some pictures from as close as I could get. Not close enough for a good picture but maybe close enough for an identification.

It turns out the bird is a blue-grey gnatcatcher. It's unlikely I would have been able to make a positive ID without severely cropping the image. Well, I guess I wouldn't have had to crop, but I'd have had to zoom in at 100% magnification.
--