A77 - Why is Sony holding back on basic features :-( ?

[Drue Mc Laughlin]

I find all this hand-wringing over program shift, aperture and shutter priority highly amusing.

They all do exactly the same thing as each other. No matter which of these three modes you are in, the aperture and shutter speed will change with the turn of a dial - together (as you meter).

Equivalent exposures dictate this.

The only real difference between the modes is whether you want the camera to default to it's own combination (program), whether you want to begin with a set aperture (aperture priority) or a certain shutter speed (shutter priority).

But at the end of the day when you're looking through the VF and turning the dial, program shift, aperture and shutter priority have the same essential operation - both values will change.

YOU HAVE TOTALLY MISSED IT!!

 

[Henry Curric]

What I 'get' is that reliance on any given mode or feature such as program shift is pretty silly. As I've demonstrated any of the aforementioned modes give you the same flexibility over exposure and desired creative effect.

Just because program shift puts you in this middle ground of not (apparently) committing to a DOF or motion effect via preference to aperture or shutter is really just a thin disguise for the truth. Regardless of whether you are using program shift, aperture or shutter priority, you ARE ultimately making a decision about the aperture, OR shutter that you prefer for that next shot.

And I content that you can arrive at that same combination of numbers with the preference to one or the other, with any of the three aforementioned modes/features. So if program shift isn't available, use aperture or shutter priority (it doesn't matter which) and you will get what you're after.

 

[aman74]

Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it is useless or a beginners feature. Maybe it is your ignorance that stands in the way of you using this extremely useful feature.

Something you and some others just don't seem to understand is that different people have different styles and just because someone or some feature doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it is not a valuable tool for many others. If you dojn't like a feature or don't use it than fine, but don't encourage Sony to take it away from others who do like and use it.

Actually I know perfectly well what program shift can do and it is not something I would ever use. I have had cameras with it and didn't use it. Yes different people have different needs and people who say that the lack of a feature like PS make a camera unacceptable don't understand that different people have different needs as well. They are merely using the forum to cry and grandstand about something they are unhappy about. Is there a perfect camera? No and every camera made could have someone bitching about some feature that is either missing or doesn't work the way they want it.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Dude, you're the one who said "Since I never use program shift I consider the A55 a superior camera in every possible way and as such is no "toy""

You also said it's a more entry level feature.

So, because a camera doesn't have PS it's automatically superior according to you? I guess the A55 is better than the A77 then.

 

[tom55604]

Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it is useless or a beginners feature. Maybe it is your ignorance that stands in the way of you using this extremely useful feature.

Something you and some others just don't seem to understand is that different people have different styles and just because someone or some feature doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it is not a valuable tool for many others. If you dojn't like a feature or don't use it than fine, but don't encourage Sony to take it away from others who do like and use it.

Actually I know perfectly well what program shift can do and it is not something I would ever use. I have had cameras with it and didn't use it. Yes different people have different needs and people who say that the lack of a feature like PS make a camera unacceptable don't understand that different people have different needs as well.

What you have to understand is that at the end of every sentence that says "...so the camera is unacceptable." the period at the end of the sentence is shorthand for "to me". When a person gives their opinion it is obviously in relation to what they want or need, not the whole world. The problem is when someone says "xyz is not needed and should be removed", and that's whether its video or DOF-P or Program Shift, etc. If camera companies would offer modular customization, it would be a lot nicer to pick out a camera (particularly if each feature had a price like accessories for new cars used to.) In the past as you moved up the cost ladder of cameras, features were added. not swapped, because the assumption was that as the user got more advanced they had developed their own style and use of the tools (whether or not the camera designer or dpreview felt it was the best way.) So to appeal to the mass of advanced users, there were more options made available.

They are merely using the forum to cry and grandstand about something they are unhappy about. Is there a perfect camera? No and every camera made could have someone bitching about some feature that is either missing or doesn't work the way they want it.

And if they are going to pay for it and wanted to buy it, that's a reasonable thing to do.

--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

 

[Drue Mc Laughlin]

What I 'get' is that reliance on any given mode or feature such as program shift is pretty silly. As I've demonstrated any of the aforementioned modes give you the same flexibility over exposure and desired creative effect.

Just because program shift puts you in this middle ground of not (apparently) committing to a DOF or motion effect via preference to aperture or shutter is really just a thin disguise for the truth. Regardless of whether you are using program shift, aperture or shutter priority, you ARE ultimately making a decision about the aperture, OR shutter that you prefer for that next shot.

And I content that you can arrive at that same combination of numbers with the preference to one or the other, with any of the three aforementioned modes/features. So if program shift isn't available, use aperture or shutter priority (it doesn't matter which) and you will get what you're after.

Yes but using the wheel whilst in P mode gets you the action a lot quicker!! and that is the issue here..depending on how you see photography or more to the point how you use the particular tool, in my case grabbing people moments etc then this is a great tool...fast and effective , as others have commented..it is not either or it is PLUS

 

[tbcass]

Dude, you're the one who said "Since I never use program shift I consider the A55 a superior camera in every possible way and as such is no "toy""

You also said it's a more entry level feature.

So, because a camera doesn't have PS it's automatically superior according to you? I guess the A55 is better than the A77 then.

No and I shouldn't have said that. I was a little angry at the time. I apologize.

--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

 

[tbcass]

They are merely using the forum to cry and grandstand about something they are unhappy about. Is there a perfect camera? No and every camera made could have someone bitching about some feature that is either missing or doesn't work the way they want it.

And if they are going to pay for it and wanted to buy it, that's a reasonable thing to do.

Maybe but I just get sick of the whiners and complainers. I don't like a couple features about my A55 such as lack of a SSS on - off switch and have stated that fact but it doesn't make me want to complain in the extreme. I don't like complainers, either on this forum or in the real world and that's my right. There's complaining and wishing something was different and saying so politely. It makes a big difference to me. When I'm around complainers and whiners in the real world I either ask them to stop or walk away. I don't want to walk away from these forums so I ask people to tone it down a bit.

--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

 

[aman74]

Dude, you're the one who said "Since I never use program shift I consider the A55 a superior camera in every possible way and as such is no "toy""

You also said it's a more entry level feature.

So, because a camera doesn't have PS it's automatically superior according to you? I guess the A55 is better than the A77 then.

No and I shouldn't have said that. I was a little angry at the time. I apologize.

--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

Glad to see someone big enough to apologize. Not many folks do that on internet forums.

 

[bebop777]

Since I´ve been buying a sony camera at least every second year for a while now, not to mention the lenses to go with them, and having to work fairly hard for the money I spend on Sony products, I feel I have every right to publicly state, where they could improve their products in order to keep me as customer. Thats got nothing to do with whining.

 

[Sam147]

it is sad anyone would want program shift in a65/77 bodies!

 

[Dave Oddie]

Having bought an A55 for temporary use, I was waiting impatiently for the arival of it´s big brother. While the A55 is a fun toy with a few lovely features, easy to carry along, it was not meant to replace either my A100, nor my A900. The plan was to replace the A100 and the A55 with the A77.

On of the reasons I´m not totally happy with the A55 is the missing program shift. I have been using this feature over decades. Even my analog Minoltas had it, the Dimages had it, the KM A2 and the Alphas I own have it - only the A55 does not. And - big surprise - the new "EVF Flagship" doesn´t either :-(

Someone must have made a one of special for me then along with a special print run of the manual.

On page 102 of the manual:

Program Shift

You can temporarily change the shutter
speed and aperture value combination
with the correct exposure determined by
the camera maintained.
Rotate the front or rear control dial to
select your desired combination while the
focus is achieved.
The exposure mode indication changes to
“P*.”

The same goes for DMF, which I´ve been happy to use with every digital camera I own.

It has that as well.

On page 125 of the manual:

Direct manual focus

You can make fine adjustments after adjusting the focus in auto focus
(Direct manual focus). You can assign this function to the “A” position of
the focus mode dial.
You can quickly focus on a subject rather than using the manual focus from
the beginning. This is convenient in cases such as macro shooting.

These aren´t features which would raise the cost of production to any significant degree. In a body in it´s price range, I expect them, and I´m so disappointed that I´ve decided not to update.

It pay's to do a little more research.

 

[Mike CH]

Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...

 

[Karl Scharf]

Why are you guys resurrecting a 7 months old thread?
Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...

Maybe because it's April 1st???
--

Sony SLT-A77 / Rokinon 8mm / Sigma 10-20 f4.0-5.6 / Sigma 18-250 f3.5-6.3 / Sigma 50-500 f4.5-6.3 OS / Minolta 70-210 f4.0 / Minolta 50 f1.7 / Kenko MC4 AF 1.4 / Sony HVL- F56AM flash Karl Scharf

 

[Mike CH]

Why are you guys resurrecting a 7 months old thread?
Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...

Maybe because it's April 1st???

That could be it...

Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...

 

[JudyN]

And it's sad to me that people would go to all of the trouble to denigrate anyone who likes to use this feature. Use the tools that work for you!

it is sad anyone would want program shift in a65/77 bodies!

--
Judy
http://nichollsphoto.com/

 

[liquid stereo]

I'm always curious as to why folks are opposed to "resurrecting" an old thread. Personally, I wish people would do it more.

On some forums I visit — e.g. the Canon SLR lens talk — the same question is asked every 4 to 10 days. Its almost like using the search dialog box is forbidden.

 

[Sam147]

Generally, i hate picking out on somebody or mocking anyone! But, when someone says that the lack of a program shift (which means allowing the camera to choose between AV or TV mode, assuming you have no clue what you want to shoot) in a semipro/pro body is a bummer or possibly a deal breaker, definitely warrants a rebuttal!

Why are you guys resurrecting a 7 months old thread?
Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...

Maybe because it's April 1st???

That could be it...

Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...

 

[Sam147]

And sorry i quoted the wrong post!

 

[digititus]

Generally, i hate picking out on somebody or mocking anyone! But, when someone says that the lack of a program shift (which means allowing the camera to choose between AV or TV mode, assuming you have no clue what you want to shoot) in a semipro/pro body is a bummer or possibly a deal breaker, definitely warrants a rebuttal!

Before you make a rebuttal, you should make sure you know what Program Shift does. If I'm not mistaken Av and Tv are Canon mode labels, but regardless, Program Shift has nothing to do with switching modes.

 

[Mike CH]

I'm always curious as to why folks are opposed to "resurrecting" an old thread. Personally, I wish people would do it more.

Because it - like in this case - leads to angry refutations of points which have been refuted a long time ago?

On some forums I visit — e.g. the Canon SLR lens talk — the same question is asked every 4 to 10 days. Its almost like using the search dialog box is forbidden.

That was not the case here. But otherwise I agree - seeing the same question repeatedly asked and answered is wearing. Of course the search leaves much to be desired...

Regards,
Mike
--
Wait and see...