Calling it like I see it. "Nikon will/has started making its own sensor tech"

[Robert Daniels]

With the Sony's thunderous announcement I'm sure sure Nikon and maybe Canon are a a bit concerned. In years past the tech has trickled out of the top 2 camps. Within a few short years Sony has said 'Fugg that' and has produced an APC-s camera that shoots 12 frames per sec. 24mpx, 1080video with phase detection, high quality lenses and body...etc for under $2000.00. Now you may say that the high ISO are not that great etc..but the truth of the matter is they just delivered PRO GRADE SPECS to the masses. This not trickle down tech. This has opened the flood gates. And with these early announcements they will snap up every point and shoot photographer who has desired to get a DSLR. Mark my words Sony is on a WARPATH and is taking no prisoners. Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras. Sure everything is chummy between Nikon and Sony. For now. But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.
--

• 'What's the use of having BIG hands if you have short fingers'

Nikon forever... Babe!

 

[Chaz f64]

Astute observations. Agreed.

 

[Les Kamens]

I speculate that Sony Made a "request" for Nikon not to announce on their day, just because of their ties. IMHO

 

[E.J.]

Strongly agree with most of what you say but the lens selection, especially at the pro telephoto end, is non existent with Sony. Until they rectify that with a full lineup of pro super teles, they are not in the lucrative sports and wildlife/bird market.
--
EJP

 

[coudet]

Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras.

Well, Nikon has its own and Sony sensors, at least that's how it's been so far. Lets think about this, what would happen if Nikon didnt listen to you and used this 24mp Sony sensor?

This same Sony sensor in a D300-class body would give you a substantially better image quality (no fixed mirror, remember), substantially better viewfinder, substantially better AF if history is anything to go by and you get substantially better lens selection.

So, you see, the sky isnt falling. The end isnt near. The planets havent stop turning either just cause Nikon didnt make a huge announcement to make you feel better.

But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.

Childish thing to say, though, the rest wasnt much better. Sometimes I wonder why Nikon users are so insecure and always just need an excuse to open up a "the end is coming" thread.

 

[RaptorUK]

The answer you are looking for is . . ignorance.

Sometimes I wonder why Nikon users are so insecure and always just need an excuse to open up a "the end is coming" thread.

--
Take a look at my album . . . http://www.F1Album.com

 

[rhlpetrus]

Sony sensor dept is not Sony camera dept. They'll sell sensors to anyone that wants them. Nikon is one of the largest customers, certainly their largest in the APS-C+ arena.

Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras.

Well, Nikon has its own and Sony sensors, at least that's how it's been so far. Lets think about this, what would happen if Nikon didnt listen to you and used this 24mp Sony sensor?

This same Sony sensor in a D300-class body would give you a substantially better image quality (no fixed mirror, remember), substantially better viewfinder, substantially better AF if history is anything to go by and you get substantially better lens selection.

So, you see, the sky isnt falling. The end isnt near. The planets havent stop turning either just cause Nikon didnt make a huge announcement to make you feel better.

But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.

Childish thing to say, though, the rest wasnt much better. Sometimes I wonder why Nikon users are so insecure and always just need an excuse to open up a "the end is coming" thread.

--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

 

[Bob GB]

With the Sony's thunderous announcement I'm sure sure Nikon and maybe Canon are a a bit concerned. In years past the tech has trickled out of the top 2 camps. Within a few short years Sony has said 'Fugg that' and has produced an APC-s camera that shoots 12 frames per sec. 24mpx, 1080video with phase detection, high quality lenses and body...etc for under $2000.00. Now you may say that the high ISO are not that great etc..but the truth of the matter is they just delivered PRO GRADE SPECS to the masses. This not trickle down tech. This has opened the flood gates. And with these early announcements they will snap up every point and shoot photographer who has desired to get a DSLR. Mark my words Sony is on a WARPATH and is taking no prisoners. Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras. Sure everything is chummy between Nikon and Sony. For now. But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.

Leaking the news for weeks, is that "thunderous announcement"? Filled with buzzwords is perhaps a better description but that is marketing of course.

Pelical mirrors were used by Canon decades ago but they gave it all up. Oh well, Canon had an optical viewfinder. Sony has produced a higher quality EVF but still not like an optical finder IMHO. Perhaps good enough?

Lenses? I leave that for those interested in comparing.

I really wonder how the image quality is. We don't know yet and in the meantime all those with the need to feel insecure can do that.

Have a best possible day!

 

[sandy b]

The D400 will most likely be a awesome camera itself. Sony is not going to stop making sensors for Nikon, and Nikon is not going to stop making steppers for Sony. It is a mutually beneficial setup for both companies. And like Renato said, Sony sensor division is not dictated to by sony camera division, they probably make as much money selling Nikon sensors as Sonys DSLR line sales.

 

[Robert Daniels]

The D400 will most likely be a awesome camera itself. Sony is not going to stop making sensors for Nikon, and Nikon is not going to stop making steppers for Sony. It is a mutually beneficial setup for both companies. And like Renato said, Sony sensor division is not dictated to by sony camera division, they probably make as much money selling Nikon sensors as Sonys DSLR line sales.

-yup I agree, but when that 'club behind sony's back comes out. Nikon better be ready
--

• 'What's the use of having BIG hands if you have short fingers'

Nikon forever... Babe!

 

[viking79]

I speculate that Sony Made a "request" for Nikon not to announce on their day, just because of their ties. IMHO

I imagine. The exact same thing last year. The A55 was announced a month or two before the Pentax K-5 and Nikon D7000 (all of which use the same sensor). I imagine Sony gets first dibs to announcements with it.

I would strongly expect a Nikon with the same sensor by the end of the year, unless they really are going all to their own sensor development (but I think that is only for certain models).

Eric
--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)

 

[sandy b]

I think they will be. They have already produced great sensors without Sony, like the D3, D3s. There are other Fab shops. No doubt Sony is coming for bear, and wants to be number one. But Nikon has a huge base, pro services, and a killer lens line up and last but certainly not least, a great reputation. Nikon sells as many DSLR's as it can make, and easily 2-3 times what Sony can do. Sony should watch out for Nikon, who with the new line up by jan will be fielding the D7000, D400, D4 and maybe d800 plus this mirrorless lineup. Thats enough to make any competetor cringe.

 

[jinnyc]

Nikon is not wet behind the ears, and even if there's a Sony club for Nikon, don't you think Nikon, a multi-billion dollar company, has figured out how to respond? While the new Sonys are nicely spec'ed, one camera (or sensor) does not make a camera system. You still need lenses, lenses and more lenses, many of which are missing for Sony's lineup. Also, image quality may be good in the Sony, but Nikon generally takes it from there and tweaks it--see, for example, the D3X over the A900, in terms of color fidelity, noise, etc.

I'd say that Nikon and Sony are gunning for slightly different slices of the pie. It's best to stop the gloom and doom panic, specially on the first day of announcement. Give Nikon and Canon, the big boys of the market, a little time to announce their toys, and then we'll see who's got the bigger clubs. I'd say it'll be a much fun filled month or 2.

In the meantime, I'm gonna go out and use my outdated D300 and D700 Nikons, before Sony clubs them to death!

 

[anotherMike]

Interesting that there's all this "SONY is gonna drop the hammer, Nikon is doomed" talk. Heard that back when the cheaper 24mp version of the A900 (forgot the model #) came out - a 2 grand and change 24mp FX barebones body from Sony that was supposed to kill Nikon and it's "old" D700 and so forth, what, a year and change ago? Nikon was supposed to be doomed a year ago because of Sony.

Yet it never happened. A small story: Back in the spring I was out in the AZ/UT area doing some landscape shooting, getting away from the madness. I'm an analytical type, and for fun, I tried to keep track of what camera brands and bodies I saw over a 10 day period of shooting in the hands of folks who shoot landscape.

Saw tons, and tons, of Nikon and Canon. Most of the Canon guys were either 5d mk II or 60D's, a couple of 7D's scattered here and there. Nikon guys were split between D700 if they were more serious, and D90's if amateur, and a fair bunch of D300 and d7000's in the mix, but nowhere as many as the D700 and D90 contingents.

Over those ten days, I saw 1 (one) Sony body and 1 (one) Pentax body. That's it. From what I can tell, Sony has quite a ways to go to get the market penetration of the big boys.

-m

 

[Canadianguy]

Have you been hiding under a rock for the past 3 years.

In 2008 – the A900 was announced – pro spec 35mm – 24MP sensor for MSRP - $2700

In 2009 – the A850 was announced – a bit lower but still semi-pro spec 35mm – 24MP sensor for MSRP - $2100

Both models have now been discontinued.

Today we get an APC sized sensor at 24MP for about the same price as the old A850...so what has really changed?

They traded sensor size for faster frame rate of a Pelican mirror and went from optical to electronic viewfinder, plus video (if you are into that).

I don’t know about you but if I was looking into an A-mount system, I would have picked the A900 or A850 over the A77.

With the Sony's thunderous announcement I'm sure sure Nikon and maybe Canon are a a bit concerned. In years past the tech has trickled out of the top 2 camps. Within a few short years Sony has said 'Fugg that' and has produced an APC-s camera that shoots 12 frames per sec. 24mpx, 1080video with phase detection, high quality lenses and body...etc for under $2000.00. Now you may say that the high ISO are not that great etc..but the truth of the matter is they just delivered PRO GRADE SPECS to the masses. This not trickle down tech. This has opened the flood gates. And with these early announcements they will snap up every point and shoot photographer who has desired to get a DSLR. Mark my words Sony is on a WARPATH and is taking no prisoners. Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras. Sure everything is chummy between Nikon and Sony. For now. But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.
--

• 'What's the use of having BIG hands if you have short fingers'

Nikon forever... Babe!

 

[Robert Hoy]

Have you been hiding under a rock for the past 3 years.

In 2008 – the A900 was announced – pro spec 35mm – 24MP sensor for MSRP - $2700

Pro spec? Really? I thought it was rather middle of the road spec but with a 35mm sensor.

In 2009 – the A850 was announced – a bit lower but still semi-pro spec 35mm – 24MP sensor for MSRP - $2100

It was $1999 and it was Sony's way of lowering the a900 price by $1000 (not getting sales) and saving face by calling it a new model when the only difference was 3 fps and slightly less coverage in the OVF.

Both models have now been discontinued.

Today we get an APC sized sensor at 24MP for about the same price as the old A850...so what has really changed?

No, a77 body only $1300, $2000 with new lens.

They traded sensor size for faster frame rate of a Pelican mirror and went from optical to electronic viewfinder, plus video (if you are into that).

I don’t know about you but if I was looking into an A-mount system, I would have picked the A900 or A850 over the A77.

--
http://www.photographybyhoy.com
http://www.facebook.com/Photography.by.Hoy
http://roberthoy.zenfolio.com/

 

[Robert Hoy]

With the Sony's thunderous announcement I'm sure sure Nikon and maybe Canon are a a bit concerned. In years past the tech has trickled out of the top 2 camps. Within a few short years Sony has said 'Fugg that' and has produced an APC-s camera that shoots 12 frames per sec.

12 fps for 1 second when shooting RAW and about 1.5 seconds if shooting JPG. Could have been a lot better. Is this a specification note achieved for the same of putting it in without it really being a useful option? And then how long does it take the buffer to clear out about 290 MB of RAW data collected in that one second before recording again?

24mpx, 1080video with phase detection, high quality lenses and body...etc for under $2000.00. Now you may say that the high ISO are not that great etc..but the truth of the matter is they just delivered PRO GRADE SPECS to the masses. This not trickle down tech. This has opened the flood gates. And with these early announcements they will snap up every point and shoot photographer who has desired to get a DSLR. Mark my words Sony is on a WARPATH and is taking no prisoners. Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras. Sure everything is chummy between Nikon and Sony. For now. But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.
--

• 'What's the use of having BIG hands if you have short fingers'

Nikon forever... Babe!

--
http://www.photographybyhoy.com
http://www.facebook.com/Photography.by.Hoy
http://roberthoy.zenfolio.com/

 

[underxposed59]

With the Sony's thunderous announcement I'm sure sure Nikon and maybe Canon are a a bit concerned. In years past the tech has trickled out of the top 2 camps. Within a few short years Sony has said 'Fugg that' and has produced an APC-s camera that shoots 12 frames per sec.

12 fps for 1 second when shooting RAW and about 1.5 seconds if shooting JPG. Could have been a lot better. Is this a specification note achieved for the same of putting it in without it really being a useful option? And then how long does it take the buffer to clear out about 290 MB of RAW data collected in that one second before recording again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF1-I-Zmvrk&feature=channel_video_title

24mpx, 1080video with phase detection, high quality lenses and body...etc for under $2000.00. Now you may say that the high ISO are not that great etc..but the truth of the matter is they just delivered PRO GRADE SPECS to the masses. This not trickle down tech. This has opened the flood gates. And with these early announcements they will snap up every point and shoot photographer who has desired to get a DSLR. Mark my words Sony is on a WARPATH and is taking no prisoners. Nikon need to severe their ties and start investing their own sensors for their cameras. Sure everything is chummy between Nikon and Sony. For now. But Sony has got that devilish grin with its hand outstretched to shake Nikon's hand. While the other hand is hidden with a club waiting to hit Nikon over 'da' head with.
--

• 'What's the use of having BIG hands if you have short fingers'

Nikon forever... Babe!

--
http://www.photographybyhoy.com
http://www.facebook.com/Photography.by.Hoy
http://roberthoy.zenfolio.com/

 

[Lance B]

Interesting that there's all this "SONY is gonna drop the hammer, Nikon is doomed" talk. Heard that back when the cheaper 24mp version of the A900 (forgot the model #) came out - a 2 grand and change 24mp FX barebones body from Sony that was supposed to kill Nikon and it's "old" D700 and so forth, what, a year and change ago? Nikon was supposed to be doomed a year ago because of Sony.

Yet it never happened. A small story: Back in the spring I was out in the AZ/UT area doing some landscape shooting, getting away from the madness. I'm an analytical type, and for fun, I tried to keep track of what camera brands and bodies I saw over a 10 day period of shooting in the hands of folks who shoot landscape.

Saw tons, and tons, of Nikon and Canon. Most of the Canon guys were either 5d mk II or 60D's, a couple of 7D's scattered here and there. Nikon guys were split between D700 if they were more serious, and D90's if amateur, and a fair bunch of D300 and d7000's in the mix, but nowhere as many as the D700 and D90 contingents.

Over those ten days, I saw 1 (one) Sony body and 1 (one) Pentax body. That's it. From what I can tell, Sony has quite a ways to go to get the market penetration of the big boys.

-m

That's right, Mike. Nikon and Canon are too entrenched in the pro arena for them to lose market share in any great amount and this will continue for a fair while into the future. Sure, Sony will chip away, but to gain real market share will take many, many years simply because everybody has too much money invested in pro gear and I mean the complete system, not just a few lenses. The only way they can make decent inroads is in the semi pro/advanced amateur area where some may make the jump if they do not have too much investment in Nikon/Canon or with new people to DSLR's, but again, many new people will vote to stick with the more known pro spec brands simply because of history and back up.

Having said all that, Nikon and Canon can't rest on their laurels and need to keep pace with any new improvements, obviously. The thing is, Nikon & Canon will still keep pace and that is why Sony will not really take much market share from C&N in the long run. Added to the fact that the differences between cameras with the same product cycle are minimal at best, will make sure that just about everyone will stick to C&N espeically when they have so much money invested in their gear already. The thing is, why buy Sony when Nikon makes the best lenses etc.

It is really only the nut case tech heads that have to have the latest technology in order to impress and say that they (in their minds) have the best as indicated by some here that have sold their cameras in anticipation of a new body! (shakes head in disblief).

In a few months, both Nikon and Canon will have cameras that equal or surpass the current offering from Sony and yet for a few months those that believe that they have to have the latest and greatest and their camera has been possibly surpassed momentarily by Sony will be gripped with angst and dread. LOL.

Me? I'll more than happily keep shooting with my "outdated" D700 (and D7000) and all my brilliannt Nikon lenses and if the new camera/s are good enough in a few months time when they are released, I might even upgrade.

--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 

[SanMat]

Sounds reasonable.

And I suspect they don't want to over-promise delivery dates for any new equipment after being affected so directly by the earthquake. Likely best for them to take a conservative approach with what they promise to have in the hands of consumers this year. Just a thought.

As to the sensor, I am assuming the same thing - based on the high-ISO success of that Sony sensor (in the K5 and D7000). It's a great trend IMO. I like the output of my D300s, but I can only imagine how much better things would be with that Sony sensor, based on my experience with the K5. If Nikon can produce something even better than the Sony, they won't get any complaints from me.

Pete

I speculate that Sony Made a "request" for Nikon not to announce on their day, just because of their ties. IMHO

I imagine. The exact same thing last year. The A55 was announced a month or two before the Pentax K-5 and Nikon D7000 (all of which use the same sensor). I imagine Sony gets first dibs to announcements with it.

I would strongly expect a Nikon with the same sensor by the end of the year, unless they really are going all to their own sensor development (but I think that is only for certain models).

Eric
--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)