NY Graffiti photos, legal issue

[Bananas in Paris]

Hello.

I plan to photograph NY Grafitti which than will be printed as part of a commercial product for sale in retail stores across the country
(see: http://www.artboxproject.com ).

Do I need a release from the artists or even do I need to pay them royalties on the sale?
If so, it will be impossible to find the right people.

Of course the Grafitti is on private buildings which are fully accessible to the public.

Andrzej

--
Andrzej
http://www.oysterstudio.com

 

[Anthony]

I look at it this way.......

If you took a picture of the Brooklyn Bridge, would you have to pay the Port Authority a royalty fee?

If your book is written as a documentary, I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Bananas in Paris]

I also think same way, but this is not a book. It is a comercial product.
What is a book? It is a commercial product as well.

I figure that I will be fine, but wanted to hear from the pros.

I look at it this way.......

If you took a picture of the Brooklyn Bridge, would you have to pay
the Port Authority a royalty fee?

If your book is written as a documentary, I wouldn't worry too much.

--
Andrzej
http://www.oysterstudio.com

 

[David Barkin]

As a native New Yorker I should tell you that the law requires you to visit the Bureau of Grafitti and Art located on Chambers Street. There you can be equiped with spray paint and masking tape and the various free locations available for painting will be pointed out. They are very friendly down there and the service is free as a part of the Tourist industry.

Dave

I figure that I will be fine, but wanted to hear from the pros.

I look at it this way.......

If you took a picture of the Brooklyn Bridge, would you have to pay
the Port Authority a royalty fee?

If your book is written as a documentary, I wouldn't worry too much.

--
Andrzej
http://www.oysterstudio.com

 

[QueenAnnesRevenge]

There are many books like this that are already printed. YOu might want to go to barnes and noble or something and take a look at them and see how htey approached the issue. It would also be good so you don't duplicate exactly what they did.

Jon
G1
D60
Canon 28-135 f3.5-5.6 IS USM
Canon 75-300 f4-5.6 IS USM
Sigma 15-30mm f3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF

 

[Jonathan]

I would contact your lawyer. I believe you are safe since they are on public property but Here in Chicago some companys pay to have there buildings painted so In that case I would think the water could turn cloudy. Talk to legeal and have your location scout get contact info for each propewrty and ask them if they paid for the painting on the building, if not shot away.
Jonathan Zalkin

 

[DennisASA]

I believe you have stumbled on a way to eliminate the blight of illegal and mostly ugly grafitti that litters the visual landscape in this country. Publish a notice in the newspaper offering a royalty for any grafitti for the purpose of publishing them in your book. Then give the name of the perpetrator to the police for arrest/conviction/community service. You might even get some Crimestoppers money.

Dennis
--
http://www.pbase.com/jokasmophia/galleries/inbox

 

[Ed Nazarko]

There is a potential legal issue if buildings are identifiable - some building owners require (and legally will pursue you if you don't have) a property release. It is within their rights, although typically nobody bothers to get one, and owners mostly don't care. I've had architectural photography friends have legal hassles when one building showed up prominently in a shot of another building - despite the "legal right" to protect the image of the building, i think the proper term for it is "shake down."

you can find releases for property shots on most sites that carry model releases. and, my experience: if you do ask, the answer is ALWAYS no; if i were you i'd just go for it, and let the publisher make the legal decisions, their teams are paid well and have experience.

I believe you have stumbled on a way to eliminate the blight of
illegal and mostly ugly grafitti that litters the visual landscape
in this country. Publish a notice in the newspaper offering a
royalty for any grafitti for the purpose of publishing them in your
book. Then give the name of the perpetrator to the police for
arrest/conviction/community service. You might even get some
Crimestoppers money.

Dennis
--
http://www.pbase.com/jokasmophia/galleries/inbox

 

[Merle Sebzda]

Hello.
I plan to photograph NY Grafitti which than will be printed as part
of a commercial product for sale in retail stores across the country
(see: http://www.artboxproject.com ).

Do I need a release from the artists or even do I need to pay them
royalties on the sale?
If so, it will be impossible to find the right people.

Of course the Grafitti is on private buildings which are fully
accessible to the public.

Andrzej

Roliaz replies:

There is a similar topic in "Open Talk", with a link that might be interesting reading.
http://www.photosecrets.com/p14.html

 

[Bananas in Paris]

I appreciate the answers so far.

Just to make things straight: it is not a book (as many of you think), but an ArtBox.

More info about this project is available at: http://www.artboxproject.com

Please bother to take a look there so that you know what this is all about; that is if you are interrested.

Cheers
Andrzej

Hello.
I plan to photograph NY Grafitti which than will be printed as part
of a commercial product for sale in retail stores across the country
(see: http://www.artboxproject.com ).

Do I need a release from the artists or even do I need to pay them
royalties on the sale?
If so, it will be impossible to find the right people.

Of course the Grafitti is on private buildings which are fully
accessible to the public.

Andrzej

Roliaz replies:

There is a similar topic in "Open Talk", with a link that might be
interesting reading.
http://www.photosecrets.com/p14.html

--
Andrzej
http://www.oysterstudio.com

 

[Ed Nazarko]

cool idea. we have something similar in our basement in the house we just moved in, except the covers are leopard spots, tiger stripes, or zebra stripes - ugh. but looking at your site, i wonder why you'd not just do graffiti yourself instead of photographing it? or hunt down the kid, pay him a small royalty, and have him do some. you might find the next Basquiat.

i've been working on ways to take some of my SE Asia temple and scenic photos and use them to replace the animal patterns on the lights in my basement. inkjet film seems to work OK, but i'd like a bit more light transmission.

Good luck.

I appreciate the answers so far.

Just to make things straight: it is not a book (as many of you
think), but an ArtBox.

More info about this project is available at: http://www.artboxproject.com

Please bother to take a look there so that you know what this is
all about; that is if you are interrested.

Cheers
Andrzej

 

[Eugene Powers]

I look at at this way, If you find someone who painted those walls you can contact police and get paid. No need to take pictures.

Eugene

Hello.
I plan to photograph NY Grafitti which than will be printed as part
of a commercial product for sale in retail stores across the country
(see: http://www.artboxproject.com ).

Do I need a release from the artists or even do I need to pay them
royalties on the sale?
If so, it will be impossible to find the right people.

Of course the Grafitti is on private buildings which are fully
accessible to the public.

Andrzej

--
Andrzej
http://www.oysterstudio.com

 

[robert41723]

Andrzej...

prett kewl concept.

i am in the middle (9.11 really messed up the ability to take a backpack and camera into some places) of doing a 'book' on graf in cleveland ohio, specifically one artist. i may resume that endeavor shortly.

one thing i discovered is that most artists have very recognizable styles and signatures. you may want to find someone there who knows the artists..be careful...and ask who the specific ones are for certain shots, get a 'contract' or release before you take the product to market. that way you may reduce or eliminate the hassles later if someone recognizes the actual work.

that said...you also may find that some of the better work is done by artists who DO have contracts to 'paint' for buildings, clubs, signs, products etc. many of these folks belong to loose 'clubs' of graf artists, and that is worldwide. they even have their own magazines, tee shirts, etc.

just because the art may be done illegally does not mean that some artists would not want a piece of the action later. BUT...having gotten to know some of these guys, most would be simply thrilled to have a product with their work on it...it could open doors to paying jobs in design. then, some of these guys ARE highly paid designers who do their street stuff for pride, competition and notarity.

as a side note, this fellow i am working with did a paid job on a building. the building owner is more than happy to sign a free release, he thought it would increase traffic to his club.

hope that helps.
good luck

--
robert
Native Eye Photography
mitakuye oyasin
('we are all related'. Lakota language)
http://www.pbase.com/nativeeye
Canon D-60, cheap lenses, good eyes.

 

[philip J. Lombardi]

Hello.
I plan to photograph NY Grafitti which than will be printed as part
of a commercial product for sale in retail stores across the country
(see: http://www.artboxproject.com ).

Do I need a release from the artists or even do I need to pay them
royalties on the sale?
If so, it will be impossible to find the right people.

Of course the Grafitti is on private buildings which are fully
accessible to the public.

Andrzej

--
Andrzej
http://www.oysterstudio.com

First the guy who told you that there was a place you could go to get permission to put grafitti on building is pulling your leg.

Grafitti is basicly illegal in new york. You need model releases from people if your going to advertise and they are in it.

Certain buildings you might need permission like the Empire state building butr for the most part the grafitti will be on a wal,l that is not distigushable.

To get a better opinion check with a Photo magazine like Pc Photo or Shutter bug, one of the film mags they have an insight and knowledge about these issues.

Hope you sell allot..

 

[medici]

If someone does a book of images with your lamps as the subject, would you want to be compensated in someway?

Just a thought,

Mike

 

[Igor R.]

I also think same way, but this is not a book. It is a comercial
product.
What is a book? It is a commercial product as well.

I think graffiti is illegal at all, gangs are using it to mark their territory, so you can make as much photos as you want.
BTW, have you ever seen someone drawing graffiti at day?

 

[Neil Wallis-Tennant]

Greetings from England.

not sure whether this helps, As a youngster, a few freinds performed graffiti as a hobby. and I would suggest that although most "pieces" (Street name for the artwork) are done Illegally, ie. side of trains, walkways etc. A number of these pieces are sponsored or commissioned by the Building owners, and i would suggest that you may wish to seek their approval before publishing anything.

on the other side of graffiti is "tagging", referred too in others comments as gang names and territoires. these names, although perfomed illegally are highly protected by their authors for "respect" at where these names can be and have been written.

In the past, as others have written, the artists would normally be over the moon to have their work published and there are a few books that have been published on the subject and this is what the artists aspire too, although like all good design, what appears in publications is generally out of date in terms of "whats happening now" on the street.

Im no authority on this, but perhaps you could gain some insite from trying to get in touch with some of the young graffiti artists to assist you in selecting artwork and getting their opinion.

Kind regards

Neil Wallis-Tennant

 

[David Barkin]

Hi Neil Wallis-Tennant

Right on target and completely accurqte as to todays scene in New York. Also, a good suggestion at the end of the post. There's an entire industry of commerorative graffiti in New York, which celebrate the decease of individuals. They should be easy to contact.

Dave

Greetings from England.

not sure whether this helps, As a youngster, a few freinds
performed graffiti as a hobby. and I would suggest that although
most "pieces" (Street name for the artwork) are done Illegally, ie.
side of trains, walkways etc. A number of these pieces are
sponsored or commissioned by the Building owners, and i would
suggest that you may wish to seek their approval before publishing
anything.

on the other side of graffiti is "tagging", referred too in others
comments as gang names and territoires. these names, although
perfomed illegally are highly protected by their authors for
"respect" at where these names can be and have been written.

In the past, as others have written, the artists would normally be
over the moon to have their work published and there are a few
books that have been published on the subject and this is what the
artists aspire too, although like all good design, what appears in
publications is generally out of date in terms of "whats happening
now" on the street.

Im no authority on this, but perhaps you could gain some insite
from trying to get in touch with some of the young graffiti artists
to assist you in selecting artwork and getting their opinion.

Kind regards

Neil Wallis-Tennant

 

[Ed Nazarko]

as an FYI, many of the graffiti "krewes" now have web sites where they display their stuff, have their biographies, and so on. web search on google will help you find them. it doesn't seem like they're trying to commercialize themselves, or make any money off of this. On the other hand, I'm sure some of them think they're potentially the next Basquiat, and are simply waiting to be discovered...

which leads me to wonder, given the existing designs for the lamps, why take pix of graffiti, instead of just doing some specially for the lamp covers, as has been done with the symbols? or pay one of the artists to do some.

I have lamps just like the ones on the web site in the basement of the house I just moved into, except they have front panels with interchangeable animal pattern prints - leopard, tiger, etc. kind of odd looking, and don't provide light, either.

Greetings from England.

not sure whether this helps, As a youngster, a few freinds
performed graffiti as a hobby. and I would suggest that although
most "pieces" (Street name for the artwork) are done Illegally, ie.
side of trains, walkways etc. A number of these pieces are
sponsored or commissioned by the Building owners, and i would
suggest that you may wish to seek their approval before publishing
anything.

on the other side of graffiti is "tagging", referred too in others
comments as gang names and territoires. these names, although
perfomed illegally are highly protected by their authors for
"respect" at where these names can be and have been written.

In the past, as others have written, the artists would normally be
over the moon to have their work published and there are a few
books that have been published on the subject and this is what the
artists aspire too, although like all good design, what appears in
publications is generally out of date in terms of "whats happening
now" on the street.

Im no authority on this, but perhaps you could gain some insite
from trying to get in touch with some of the young graffiti artists
to assist you in selecting artwork and getting their opinion.

Kind regards

Neil Wallis-Tennant

 

[koalafarm]

I would hate it if these vandals would see this book and say "wow, I need to do even more graffitti so I can get in the next book"...that's all we need?

Yeah, I know it is free speech and that someone will do this book, but really, why legitimize it?