E-5 focus point indicator on shot review

[Barry Stewart]

dingenus wrote:
...

My experience in sequential shooting is to use no AF lock, diamond and the lowest fr/sec. thats usable for the subject and shutterspeed 1/800 or faster.

Thanks. I'm a patient person and I have headed towards those settings, after trying others. I don't like to hear the "lowest fr/sec" comment, though. What's the 5 fps for, if the focus can't keep up?

Score 50% for close distance till 95% for subjects further away.

I like the 95%... but the 50% is unacceptable. Despite being a solely Oly user since 1992, I should check the competition for sports shooting AF. With Oly, I've got the weatherproofing and OOC JPEGs — but I've also got the OOFs

--
Barry

 

[Barry Stewart]

focal point used and this may not be the actual focus point in the photograph.

Yes... but my point is that it's not always showing up — as if the camera wasn't sure what it did — and even when it does show up on the target, the focus can actually be on something too close or far away.

I mainly shoot SAF on the E30 and I often focus using the centre focus point (half hold shutter button), and then recompose the scene.

I use that technique a lot on still subjects but it is not usable in many sports scenes.

I'm reasonably sure that the square shows in the centre of the resultant image ......which because of recomposition isn't the focus point in the scene. I don't think my E30 can show the actual point of focus, if it can please tell me how.

The camera is fooled when you focus and recompose. Still, the idea is that whatever you locked on is the same distance as where the red square is now placed in the photo.

--
Barry

 

[pris]

I'll have to disagree with setting C-AF lock to off without proper testing, just out of general reasoning. This is where you open the door to those cases of inexplicable refocusing to something you haven't paid attention to or had no time to react on. Raindrop in your earlier example, something behind your target in the background - since we have no quantified explanation for how it works, you can't dismiss possibility of this happening.

 

[rovingtim]

... with IS on, it takes a while to settle. If you take a shot during this time, it looks exactly like that. It might be why the camera is confused (in focus but not in focus). This happened to me on a job a few times.

IS is now off all the time unless I choose.

 

[Barry Stewart]

... with IS on, it takes a while to settle. If you take a shot during this time, it looks exactly like that. It might be why the camera is confused (in focus but not in focus). This happened to me on a job a few times.

That adds more food for thought. Stepping from the E-1 and E-330 into the E-5 has been quite a leap as far as complexity of choices goes. For example: who would think that IS would actually make taking photos harder?

IS is now off all the time unless I choose.

I'll give it a try. Back to the monopod (which isn't a bad thing.)

--
Barry

 

[Barry Stewart]

I'll have to disagree with setting C-AF lock to off without proper testing, just out of general reasoning. This is where you open the door to those cases of inexplicable refocusing to something you haven't paid attention to or had no time to react on. Raindrop in your earlier example, something behind your target in the background - since we have no quantified explanation for how it works, you can't dismiss possibility of this happening.

I'll agree that it deserves more testing — in rain and in fair weather. I'm just disappointed at the low success rate so far. Also confused as to the appearance and disappearance of the focus spot in review, which was my opening question for this thread.

--
Barry

 

[acwalbur]

... there is "focus confirmation" by the body. It will then show a dot on the focus point that the PD system determined was in-focus (and the green dot is on in the viewfinder).

If you have RELEASE PRIORITY ON (shutter will trip w/o focus confirmation), then the dot might not show up (camera has determined that nothing at any of the selected focus points is in focus).

This happens a lot on the E-3 also in 5 FPS/CA-F/Release Priority ON.

--
Good shooting.

• Adam

Equipment in plan

 

[Timskis6]

I'm looking for E-5 user feedback here.

This is common with Olympus bodies, it's not necessarily E-5 specific.

This is not showing up every time on the E-5, especially when I shoot sports with the 50-200 SWD. Along with that, there's usually a bagful of badly out-of-focus shots from every game. Some of it's user error, to be sure — but I think there might be something sick with my E-5 and/or my lens.

If the indicated focus point is not showing up in all cases, there is either a bug, you're changing modes, or the camera never chose a focus point for focus. (See below)

Shutter priority was OFF in all cases.

It sounds like you may not understand what this setting does. Shutter priority set to off will give priority and CPU processing time to the AF unit and every other function (exposure, etc.), while the shutter will close last (this is normal DSLR camera operation). When shutter priority is set to on , between each exposure, the camera will choose to close and open the shutter first, and the other functions will happen "in the background," when the camera finds time to do it.

So, if you want the fastest possible frames per second, you would set Shutter Priority to ON. This is of course in theory, and some factors may affect this is different shooting conditions - but, nevertheless, that's what you'd set.

So... E-5 with 50-200 SWD users: do you get the focus square every time, when you're shooting C-AF and rapid fire?

Your other question, which isn't stated here, is suggesting the red AF indicator is showing in your shot-to-shot review (sometimes), but the subject which it sits on is not in focus.

This is an easy explanation. The camera shows you which AF point it selected to determine focus. It does not tell you where the camera focused. You decide that. Imagine a focus-and-recompose scenario. You choose the center AF point, focus on a subject 100ft away, and then move your camera to the left, while focus is locked. You're now pointing at another subject 100ft away, and it's still in focus. Why? DOF. Now imagine the same scenario, focusing on a subject 100ft away, and moving the camera to the left. But now you have a spectator standing in front of your camera, merely 10 feet away. The focus is locked, the camera is pointing at the spectator, and they are out of focus. You take the picture. In your shot review, the red AF point will indicate the center AF point was chosen, and it will also be placed over the spectator who is out of focus. Your camera is telling the truth: it chose the center AF point. You understand this because you chose the subject, who is out of focus due to depth of field.

Here's how you test to see if you've got a bug. Try focusing on something that's impossible to focus on - any action where you get the blinking green light, meaning the camera can't choose a focus point. Take the picture. See if a focus point shows up in the camera review - my guess is it doesn't, because the camera never chose a focus point. Whether the subject is in focus or not is irrelevant, because you have decided if it can be in focus, based on aperture, subject distance, and magnification, i.e. depth of field.

Cheers,
--
Tim
'I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.'
E3/7-14/12-60/35-100/150/25/EC14/EC20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/

 

[Barry Stewart]

I'm looking for E-5 user feedback here.

This is common with Olympus bodies, it's not necessarily E-5 specific.

This is not showing up every time on the E-5, especially when I shoot sports with the 50-200 SWD. Along with that, there's usually a bagful of badly out-of-focus shots from every game. Some of it's user error, to be sure — but I think there might be something sick with my E-5 and/or my lens.

If the indicated focus point is not showing up in all cases, there is either a bug, you're changing modes, or the camera never chose a focus point for focus. (See below)

Hi Tim. Thanks for your responses. I'm wondering why the camera even takes the picture, if it knows it hasn't chosen a focus point. I know it would just fire blindly if I had shutter priority ON — but I don't want that.

Shutter priority was OFF in all cases.

It sounds like you may not understand what this setting does. Shutter priority set to off will give priority and CPU processing time to the AF unit and every other function (exposure, etc.), while the shutter will close last (this is normal DSLR camera operation).

Yes, and (in shutter priority OFF) I don't want a picture to be taken unless there's a lock on my intended target. I know if the center-small point is chosen, it's very easy to miss the intended target... user error there. I'll be trying diamond next.

When shutter priority is set to on , between each exposure, the camera will choose to close and open the shutter first, and the other functions will happen "in the background," when the camera finds time to do it.

Understood.

So, if you want the fastest possible frames per second, you would set Shutter Priority to ON. This is of course in theory, and some factors may affect this is different shooting conditions - but, nevertheless, that's what you'd set.

So... E-5 with 50-200 SWD users: do you get the focus square every time, when you're shooting C-AF and rapid fire?

Your other question, which isn't stated here, is suggesting the red AF indicator is showing in your shot-to-shot review (sometimes), but the subject which it sits on is not in focus.

Yes, well I'm wondering why there isn't a red/orange AF indicator EVERY time, as I'm asking for AF and since I have shutter priority OFF, the camera should always have something in focus, or not allow the shutter to fire. Right?

This is an easy explanation. The camera shows you which AF point it selected to determine focus. It does not tell you where the camera focused. You decide that. Imagine a focus-and-recompose scenario. You choose the center AF point, focus on a subject 100ft away, and then move your camera to the left, while focus is locked. You're now pointing at another subject 100ft away, and it's still in focus. Why? DOF.

Well... not DOF, but it's actually the same focus distance.

Now imagine the same scenario, focusing on a subject 100ft away, and moving the camera to the left. But now you have a spectator standing in front of your camera, merely 10 feet away. The focus is locked, the camera is pointing at the spectator, and they are out of focus. You take the picture. In your shot review, the red AF point will indicate the center AF point was chosen, and it will also be placed over the spectator who is out of focus. Your camera is telling the truth: it chose the center AF point. You understand this because you chose the subject, who is out of focus due to depth of field.

Understood as well. This was not focus-recompose shooting, though.

Here's how you test to see if you've got a bug. Try focusing on something that's impossible to focus on - any action where you get the blinking green light, meaning the camera can't choose a focus point. Take the picture. See if a focus point shows up in the camera review - my guess is it doesn't, because the camera never chose a focus point. Whether the subject is in focus or not is irrelevant, because you have decided if it can be in focus, based on aperture, subject distance, and magnification, i.e. depth of field.

I'll try that next. But as I say: if I get the camera firing in sequential (C-AF and shutter priority OFF) on a distant subject, then keep firing and point at my foot or something too close to focus, the camera keeps firing away. If I stop and try to shoot my foot, the camera stalls, as it can't focus. I'm wondering why, in sequential mode, the camera is not checking focus between each rapid-fire shot.

--
Barry

 

[northcoastohio]

I'll try that next. But as I say: if I get the camera firing in sequential (C-AF and shutter priority OFF) on a distant subject, then keep firing and point at my foot or something too close to focus, the camera keeps firing away. If I stop and try to shoot my foot, the camera stalls, as it can't focus. I'm wondering why, in sequential mode, the camera is not checking focus between each rapid-fire shot.

--
Barry

Focus, exposure, and white balance are locked at the first frame (during S-AF, M) while sequential shooting. Also in C-AF there is the C-AF Lock option that also prevents focus from changing while shooting sequential.

I find that with sports you have to adjust your shooting style to your camera settings. Here is an example of one frame in a sequence. I was following my son and shooting sequential. Notice that the focus didn't change when I panned past another player between me and my son. The frames before and after this one were in focus.



There is a down-side to this. If I miss focus on the first frame I may miss the entire sequential series of shots (4-5 in a row). This can happen in spots when there is a lot of movement. Therefore, I try to only take 2-3 frames and release the shutter to alllow the camera to focus again.

Now, S-AF mode with sequential is great for face-offs in Hockey and Lacrosse. But, I have also been caught with the shutter botton half pressed and then quickly moving to a different location without releasing in S-AF mode...

So we have the following:

S-AF -> S Priority Release ON/OFF -> Sequential mode
C-AF -> C Priority Release ON/OFF -> C-AF Lock ON/OFF -> Sequential mode

There are a number of configurations and combinations when you add in Manual Focus, AF Sensitivity and Multi focus points.

Keeping all this in mind and practicing has helped my "keeper rate" increase. I still get frustrated but I can't blame my gear (as much as I would like to sometimes).

 

[northcoastohio]

I should have written to check the C-AF Lock setting. Picking C-AF controls AF prior to the shutter opening and setting C-AF LOCK tells the camera what to do (or not do) after the first picture is taken and the shutter button is pressed.

 

[Barry Stewart]

Thanks for your input NorthCoast.

I'm learning more and more about this beast as the tips come in and I try things out.

Tonight, I tried shooting some more motor-drive C-AF shots in the kitchen. Interesting results... but dull photos, which I'll spare you all. 14-54 Mk1.

What I did: I half-press focused on the sink (3 paces away), jammed down the shutter and kept firing as I whipped the camera around to aim at the label on the fridge door, which was inches away.

The camera stalled during the quick swing, then starting firing off OOF shots as the focus came closer and closer. Probably 6-8 shots were OOF, then the focus caught on and settled in on the new target.

It was similar with focus lock ON or OFF. Shutter priority was OFF. IS was OFF (though I'm not sure it matters.)

On review, the red/orange square appeared on the first (sink) shot, then disappeared until the shots where back in focus... then the target square appeared for the final 3 shots.

So: it seems the square appears when the camera "thinks" it got a focus lock. When it knows it didn't get a lock, the camera happily fires away — and I don't think it should — while it tries to get back on course.

Anyone else who wants to put some wear on their shutter can give it a try!

--
Barry

 

[rovingtim]

Interesting. If this happens in SAF as well, then my IS theory might be out the window.

I'll test the IS myself later on.

 

[Barry Stewart]

Interesting. If this happens in SAF as well, then my IS theory might be out the window.

The S-AF sequential just fires OOF and never gets on track when you change to a totally OOF object. It dutifully fires at the focus distance you first locked (good for golf swings or jugglers standing in one spot....)

--
Barry

 

[rovingtim]

Sorry, I meant SAF single shot.

 

[dingenus]

My experience in sequential shooting is to use no AF lock, diamond and the lowest fr/sec. thats usable for the subject and shutterspeed 1/800 or faster.

Thanks. I'm a patient person and I have headed towards those settings, after trying others. I don't like to hear the "lowest fr/sec" comment, though. What's the 5 fps for, if the focus can't keep up?

With lower fr/sec. you give the AF more time. If you set 5 fr/sec. and shutterpriority to off the AF will slow down the shutter untill the focus is correct. If you set shutter priority to on there will be more OOF images. You can better that with a lower frame rate. So if you can do it with 3 fr/s it could be better than 5 fr/s for some conditions.

Score 50% for close distance till 95% for subjects further away.

I'm afraid that a NikonD3 wil not do much better in the close distance i mean. Think about 1-5 meter.

I like the 95%... but the 50% is unacceptable. Despite being a solely Oly user since 1992, I should check the competition for sports shooting AF. With Oly, I've got the weatherproofing and OOC JPEGs — but I've also got the OOFs

--
Barry

 

[Mark Chan]

Barry,

similar situation here.

In January I showed a series of pics on high school athletics, and lamented that quite a few pics were back focused - many of the pics were shot with C-AF and user selected focus point.

I never really understood why the shots were not in focus - and in spite of my lack of experience shooting sports, I am confident most of the shots I showed had the AF point on the moving subject, although quite a few on this blog suggested (strongly) otherwise.

What happens at times (in C-AF and even S-AF) is I her the noise but don't see the red dot show up on the selectd focus point. I had an interesting situation where we took a group photo and my wife held my camera and a friends 7D and shot from the same spot (she's a seasoned photographer too), and the second shot on my E5 was focused - the first for some wierd reason is OOF.

My way around this has been to press the shutter halfway twice to make sure i hear and see focus lock. It doesn't work all the time, but is better than nothing.

I haven't been able to find a way to deal with the back focusing on moving objects - a bigger hassle as I purchased the E5 hoping to get running kid shots (still can but not as many as one would like).

After reading your post, I will ponder whether to take my E5 and series of lens to Olympus and get them to check the camera