Why we love 5D II and what we would love to see on 5D III

[Chris ™]

A lack of an articulated LCD is one reason I did not buy the 5D mkII.

Bingo ... I demand it since the days of the D30 (not 30D). I would be interested in the 60D, if I wouldn't plan to go FF since years.

And I'm still missing the great viewfinder of my beloved Yashica FR ... 45° split screen focus screen instead of horizontal is the best help for manual focussing.

--
Greetings from Germany

Chris™

 

[xenon2]

• video without line-skipping
• 4:2:2 colour space
• good DR (13/14EV) without banding
• true iso 25/50

--
My gallery -> http://kubica.deviantart.com/gallery/
A900/C5Dmk2

 

[DaDane]

There has been a lot of complaints on the 5D II recently. Why don't we do something different?

So to all 5D II owners, please stated why we love 5D II so much (the pros of 5D II) and what we would love to see on 5D III (in some sense the cons of 5D II).

LOVE is the keyword in this thread. It doesn't mean that we can't point out the weakness of 5D II, but please express it in terms of what we want to see in the next upgrade. And since love is subjective, everyone can feel free to express himself but not disagreeing the others' reason to love, please.
My turn first:

Why I love 5D II

1. Same resolution as the 1Ds III. I wish they would continue to put the highest resolution sensor on the 5D III together with 1Ds IV. As a landscape photographer, carrying light and have high resolution is very important. So 5D series will be better than 1Ds in these situations. Though according to Canon Rumors they probably won't be doing it. What a pity.
2. Lightest Full Frame DSLR. Again, I want to have a light weight solution without sacrificing the IQ. So I don't like crop body, and not those Nikon's. Even D700 is significantly heavier than 5D I&II. No build in flash is ok with me to sacrifice for weight, since an external flash with a 5D will probably be lighter than D700.
3. Live view and 1080/24p video. I am not a videographer nor independent film maker or so. But taking these cine like videos for family gathering is cool.
4. sensor cleaning. It is very important and I am sure they will include it in 5D III.

What I would love to see on 5D III

1. As I said above, use the best sensor they have, probably on 1Ds IV (which is unlikely according to Canon Rumors).
2. Improve the dynamic range and remove the banding issue. Since I 'fill light' a lot and banding shows up sometimes. Please don't argue if it is a problem or not. It will always be better if things get improved. 14EV DR from the others are truly impressive both in numbers and IQ.
3. DEP mode. It was actually an old technology from Canon and I don't understand why they don't put it on new cameras anymore. I would love to see it since it is very helpful for landscape photography.
4. More cross type AF points.
5. Better video:

• solve the line skipping and aliasing problem.
• RAW video with a corresponding software. This would require 400Mbps uncompressed for 1080/24p which is demanding but not impossible. That would be a game changer, again. And it simplify our work flows too. Even for causal family gathering videos, editing JPEG like thing are cumbersome.
• customary bit rate.

And more (which is not very important but nice to have):

1. articulated LCD.
2. better weather sealing.
3. higher fps.

No professional here. Just to express my love. So please don't complain.

I am not really a landscape photographer, but I agree with you on most things.

I would like to get the flash system of the 7D though.

And I would like to get WiFi built in (like the Eye-Fi) as well as GPS. But I am afraid I will not get either of those this time

 

[adventure_photo]

Overall MII is a great camera. Here's what I'd like to see:

Way better autofocus with way better AF point pattern. Diamond shape clustered near center is weak.

At least 6 fps shooting.

100% Viewfinder coverage.

Better histogram display with center line segment indicating middle gray and all in a box with a thin white stroke around so you can see where the edges are in bright light.

Please no having to press the play button after each shot to zoom in or review info.

Info button revamped so we don't have to cycle through 4 or more screens in one direction only.

Better sensor with 28 MP and clean from any
noise up to iso 800 and usable/acceptable noise up to iso 6400.

Compressed lossless RAW files.

Ax picture controls or whatever they call it. Also ax direct print button.

 

[Pointandshootg9]

The Canon G9 has a 'built in' neutral density filter. Is it possible to do this with an SLR? I assume that the G9 simply turns down the gain on the sensor signal to do this though I am not entirely sure.

 

[Rick Knepper]

5DII

1.) Resolution & the additional detail plus the cropping power.

2.) Weight - took this for granted until I started lugging the D3x & 14-24G with me as a 2nd camera.
3.) TS-E 17mm
4.) rear LCD - best one on the market
5.) Live View implementation - taken for granted until using the D3x.

5D III

1.) More resolution
2.) Make even lighter
3.) Fix Banding and/or improve DR (per another current thread)
4.) Improve visibilty of rear LCD even more
5.) In-camera level
6.) Better AF system
7.) 100% VF
8.) Improved visibility of shooting info in VF in bright sunlight
9.) 5, 7, & 9 image brackets

10.) I would like to have a "bracket" function that automatically shoots different apertures like a bracket of f11, f13 & f16 or whatever you set.
11.) 14 bit

I think the sum total of these would be a 1Ds IV though.

There has been a lot of complaints on the 5D II recently. Why don't we do something different?

So to all 5D II owners, please stated why we love 5D II so much (the pros of 5D II) and what we would love to see on 5D III (in some sense the cons of 5D II).

LOVE is the keyword in this thread. It doesn't mean that we can't point out the weakness of 5D II, but please express it in terms of what we want to see in the next upgrade. And since love is subjective, everyone can feel free to express himself but not disagreeing the others' reason to love, please.
My turn first:

Why I love 5D II

1. Same resolution as the 1Ds III. I wish they would continue to put the highest resolution sensor on the 5D III together with 1Ds IV. As a landscape photographer, carrying light and have high resolution is very important. So 5D series will be better than 1Ds in these situations. Though according to Canon Rumors they probably won't be doing it. What a pity.
2. Lightest Full Frame DSLR. Again, I want to have a light weight solution without sacrificing the IQ. So I don't like crop body, and not those Nikon's. Even D700 is significantly heavier than 5D I&II. No build in flash is ok with me to sacrifice for weight, since an external flash with a 5D will probably be lighter than D700.
3. Live view and 1080/24p video. I am not a videographer nor independent film maker or so. But taking these cine like videos for family gathering is cool.
4. sensor cleaning. It is very important and I am sure they will include it in 5D III.

What I would love to see on 5D III

1. As I said above, use the best sensor they have, probably on 1Ds IV (which is unlikely according to Canon Rumors).
2. Improve the dynamic range and remove the banding issue. Since I 'fill light' a lot and banding shows up sometimes. Please don't argue if it is a problem or not. It will always be better if things get improved. 14EV DR from the others are truly impressive both in numbers and IQ.
3. DEP mode. It was actually an old technology from Canon and I don't understand why they don't put it on new cameras anymore. I would love to see it since it is very helpful for landscape photography.
4. More cross type AF points.
5. Better video:

• solve the line skipping and aliasing problem.
• RAW video with a corresponding software. This would require 400Mbps uncompressed for 1080/24p which is demanding but not impossible. That would be a game changer, again. And it simplify our work flows too. Even for causal family gathering videos, editing JPEG like thing are cumbersome.
• customary bit rate.

And more (which is not very important but nice to have):

1. articulated LCD.
2. better weather sealing.
3. higher fps.

No professional here. Just to express my love. So please don't complain.

 

[Dan_168]

Just a owner but definitely not a "lover" of the 5D2, so nothing to say about what I love about it but only a short wish list of its replacement:

Better(much better) AF, shorter shutter lag, dual card slots, remote flash trigger, 100% VF coverage.

Something will for sure prevent me from buying if the replacement has regardless of the price:
Same Low ISO shadow performance, shutter lag & AF system.

Something I wish they DO NOT do:
Articulated LCD, lighter and smaller form factor, build in flash.

 

[bronxbombers]

I hope the h-e-doublesunshine not. I don't want the camera picking my ISO for me in manual. If I'm in program, sure, go ahead. But if I feel that I need to underexpose the scene to get better saturation, I bloody well don't want the damn fool camera deciding to push the ISO so that it's "properly" exposed. Damn stupid idea.

Manual is, and should be, manual. If it isn't, it needs to be called something else. AutoISO mode, or something like that.

Let me make this very clear. I am in no way opposed to AutoISO, I think it's a very good idea, in some circumstances. If I'm shooting in a dark reception, I'm perfectly willing to set my camera on program, let the camera set all my parameters based on light and lens used. Or I can set a shutter speed to balance shake, and let the camera push ISO as needed by changing lighting circumstances to keep the exposures workable. But if I'm in manual mode, I'm there because I want COMPLETE control over what's going on with my camera.

Don't worry, M mode plus NOT AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and ISO

M mode plus AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and it's sets ISO (hopefully you can also set EC, but 7D does not allow it)

 

[bronxbombers]

oh and about time they added AutoISO in M mode for stills (honestly they could add this to the current on with new firmware in an instant but whatever) and give it a new EC button so you can use EC with is easily (or at least let it recall what the EC setting was before entering this mode and using the EC).

Auto ISO would make "manual" not manual. And, seriously, you want exposure comp in Manual??? That's what I understand from you saying "entering this mode and using EC."

Of all modes, AutoISO in M mode makes the most sense (and they do offer this on the 7D/1D4 for stills and 5D2 for video and it's been on many other makes DSLR for years BTW). You set the aperture you want and the shutter speed you need, the two most critical and artistic elements you set yourself, and then it sets the ISO as needed. But since it does rely on the metering, just as with say Av mode you may find than under a certain circumstance that, on average, shots are getting a bit over or under exposed so you may want to dial in some EC.

Yeah, wellll... Exposure comp in manual??? Again, are you reading what you're writing? You don't need EC in manual, you just change your settings. That's why it's MANUAL!!! Exposure compensation is what manual is all about, you don't need, in fact can't have, by it's very definition, a separate EC setting. Jeez, and I thought you were an experienced photographer.

yikes.

the camera is still switching ISO, so if it is generally overexposing by 1/3 stop then if you go from f/5.6 to f/6.3 well guess what then it will just, on average, use 1/3 stop higher ISO and you are back to the same generally over-exposing by 1/3 stop.

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I DO NOT WANT the blasted camera making that decision. I want it to do what I asked it to, nothing more. And nothing less. Exposure comp is supposed to be controlled by the manual controls in manual, not having to fight the camera for control.

who is forcing it on you? of course there are times, many, when I would not want that either so I simply move the ISO dial from Auto position to a fixed number. simple as taht.

 

[bronxbombers]

1. More cross type AF points.

If you want a car that uses less fuel, you would ask for "better fuel economy". You don't ask for more spark plugs. You should ask for what you want, not how you think it can be achieved.

When it comes to AF, different people want different things. I personally want accuracy. Others want better low light performance, and some others want the AF points more spread out, yet others want AF speed to improve. But when you say "more cross type AF points" I am not sure what aspect of AF performance you would like to see improved.

ability to not get lost hunting so much, cross ones pick up targets of all types a lot more consistently

 

[Skip M]

I hope the h-e-doublesunshine not. I don't want the camera picking my ISO for me in manual. If I'm in program, sure, go ahead. But if I feel that I need to underexpose the scene to get better saturation, I bloody well don't want the damn fool camera deciding to push the ISO so that it's "properly" exposed. Damn stupid idea.

Manual is, and should be, manual. If it isn't, it needs to be called something else. AutoISO mode, or something like that.

Let me make this very clear. I am in no way opposed to AutoISO, I think it's a very good idea, in some circumstances. If I'm shooting in a dark reception, I'm perfectly willing to set my camera on program, let the camera set all my parameters based on light and lens used. Or I can set a shutter speed to balance shake, and let the camera push ISO as needed by changing lighting circumstances to keep the exposures workable. But if I'm in manual mode, I'm there because I want COMPLETE control over what's going on with my camera.

Don't worry, M mode plus NOT AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and ISO

so it is defeatabl...

M mode plus AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and it's sets ISO (hopefully you can also set EC, but 7D does not allow it)

I doubt that it ever will. It'd be hard to set a compensated exposure when the mode you're in is just one big compensator for exposure. But, then again, I've been pretty consistently wrong about what cameras in general, and Canon cameras in particular, will provide.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Skip M]

1. More cross type AF points.

If you want a car that uses less fuel, you would ask for "better fuel economy". You don't ask for more spark plugs. You should ask for what you want, not how you think it can be achieved.

When it comes to AF, different people want different things. I personally want accuracy. Others want better low light performance, and some others want the AF points more spread out, yet others want AF speed to improve. But when you say "more cross type AF points" I am not sure what aspect of AF performance you would like to see improved.

More cross points would not only improve accuracy, but it would provide the ability to pick up focus on dificult subjects without having to re-orient the camera to do so. If the camera is held hrozontally, the non cross type points would run parallel to, say, a venitian blind. It would be very hard for the camera to focus on that with just non cross points. Multiple cross points would faciltate that.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Skip M]

Something I wish they DO NOT do:
Articulated LCD, lighter and smaller form factor, build in flash.

Why no articulated LCD? That would make Live View much more utiltarian, allowing off angle viewing on subjects. Overhead shots of receptions, low angle shots both on and off a tripod all become much, much easier. And I'm not talking video, here, I'm talking stills. One of the things I do to fill in time and money is shoot new cars for a dealership's website and advertising. Do you know how many tries it sometimes takes me to get a good shot of a car's sunroof? If I could actually see it, one shot would do it. Right now, in my opinion, without an articulated LCD, Live View is just a fun little party trick. Its lack is one reason I didn't buy the 5D mkII.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[bronxbombers]

I hope the h-e-doublesunshine not. I don't want the camera picking my ISO for me in manual. If I'm in program, sure, go ahead. But if I feel that I need to underexpose the scene to get better saturation, I bloody well don't want the damn fool camera deciding to push the ISO so that it's "properly" exposed. Damn stupid idea.

Manual is, and should be, manual. If it isn't, it needs to be called something else. AutoISO mode, or something like that.

Let me make this very clear. I am in no way opposed to AutoISO, I think it's a very good idea, in some circumstances. If I'm shooting in a dark reception, I'm perfectly willing to set my camera on program, let the camera set all my parameters based on light and lens used. Or I can set a shutter speed to balance shake, and let the camera push ISO as needed by changing lighting circumstances to keep the exposures workable. But if I'm in manual mode, I'm there because I want COMPLETE control over what's going on with my camera.

Don't worry, M mode plus NOT AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and ISO

so it is defeatabl...

M mode plus AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and it's sets ISO (hopefully you can also set EC, but 7D does not allow it)

I doubt that it ever will. It'd be hard to set a compensated exposure when the mode you're in is just one big compensator for exposure. But, then again, I've been pretty consistently wrong about what cameras in general, and Canon cameras in particular, will provide.

you may be right, but I hope not

other brands allow it
there is no reason to not allow it and infinitely many reasons to allow it

how is this mode any less needing of EC than Av or Tv mode?

 

[Skip M]

I hope the h-e-doublesunshine not. I don't want the camera picking my ISO for me in manual. If I'm in program, sure, go ahead. But if I feel that I need to underexpose the scene to get better saturation, I bloody well don't want the damn fool camera deciding to push the ISO so that it's "properly" exposed. Damn stupid idea.

Manual is, and should be, manual. If it isn't, it needs to be called something else. AutoISO mode, or something like that.

Let me make this very clear. I am in no way opposed to AutoISO, I think it's a very good idea, in some circumstances. If I'm shooting in a dark reception, I'm perfectly willing to set my camera on program, let the camera set all my parameters based on light and lens used. Or I can set a shutter speed to balance shake, and let the camera push ISO as needed by changing lighting circumstances to keep the exposures workable. But if I'm in manual mode, I'm there because I want COMPLETE control over what's going on with my camera.

Don't worry, M mode plus NOT AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and ISO

so it is defeatabl...

M mode plus AutoISO means you set ap, shutter and it's sets ISO (hopefully you can also set EC, but 7D does not allow it)

I doubt that it ever will. It'd be hard to set a compensated exposure when the mode you're in is just one big compensator for exposure. But, then again, I've been pretty consistently wrong about what cameras in general, and Canon cameras in particular, will provide.

you may be right, but I hope not

other brands allow it
there is no reason to not allow it and infinitely many reasons to allow it

how is this mode any less needing of EC than Av or Tv mode?

Because, manual is EC. You don't need a separate EC mode in manual. If you feel that you're underexposed, you simply open up the aperture or slow the shutter, and nothing else will change, since you are in MANUAL.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[TailsNZ]

This thread is full of ideas I'd love to see in the 5D Mark III.

One addition I'd like to make is sealing off the mirror and sensor. I'd be surprised if these days Canon couldn't make something, plastic or glass, that affected the light in such a minute way that it wasn't worth putting it on the front of the camera. Sealing off the mirror and sensor, and dust would never be an issue again. It's much easier to wipe a piece of glass than the mirror and sensor.

Since the 5D is a well known as a landscape camera, I imagine dust is more of an issue to us than say the cameras used in studios more.

Actually there's one more idea, I'd like something to replace the old shutter button. As pressing it shakes the camera, something could be done there. Perhaps a touch sensitive slider. You'd touch the left side of a small slider to focus, then swipe to the right to take the photo.

I know in an old non-digital model Canon had a eye lash shutter sensor or something like that.

Many people here have been taking photos for much much longer than me, so maybe there's some drawbacks to my ideas that I don't realize. But it'd be nice to see Canon innovate in areas beyond megapixels, focus points etc.

 

[Pultzar]

I don't think that he is going to get it. He is stuck on M being full manual rather than M+ISO X being full manual. We know that M+ISO A means locked shutter speed and aperture with automatic ISO. This is a perfect place for EC to tell the camera to adjust how it is computing the ISO to use.

Both of you can have what you want. Arguing about what this mode is called could go on forever.

 

[Skip M]

I don't think that he is going to get it. He is stuck on M being full manual rather than M+ISO X being full manual. We know that M+ISO A means locked shutter speed and aperture with automatic ISO. This is a perfect place for EC to tell the camera to adjust how it is computing the ISO to use.

Ok, I get it. Now you're telling me that you can't change either shutter speed or aperture in manual with auto ISO engaged??? Then I have to agree with BB, and say that's completely stupid. It would make me never use auto ISO in manual mode.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
http://skipmiddletonglamourshooter.blogspot.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[bronxbombers]

how is this mode any less needing of EC than Av or Tv mode?

Because, manual is EC. You don't need a separate EC mode in manual. If you feel that you're underexposed, you simply open up the aperture or slow the shutter, and nothing else will change, since you are in MANUAL.
--

But we are talking AutoISO in M mode not M mode with a fixed ISO set!

 

[bronxbombers]

I don't think that he is going to get it. He is stuck on M being full manual rather than M+ISO X being full manual. We know that M+ISO A means locked shutter speed and aperture with automatic ISO. This is a perfect place for EC to tell the camera to adjust how it is computing the ISO to use.

Both of you can have what you want. Arguing about what this mode is called could go on forever.

heh probably so and a name is just a name whatever so it's nearly pointless