Why don't more cameras allow manual flash control?

[carl1864]

I've been comparing entry level DSLR cameras, and it seems that one feature is very sorely missing from most of the cameras that even cost $600 - $800 or so. Manual control over the flash, to fire it at 1/2 power 1/128 power, etc. I know the stock flash isn't that powerful, but why would this not be a standard option on a dslr, without having to buy an expensive external flash.

I know its not hard to do, even some 5 year old obsolete P&S cameras allow you at least some control over the flash output (although they are more like 3 stage selectable than full control.

 

[trekkeruss]

It is not sorely missing, because the vast majority of people, most especially those moving up from a P&S, do not want to use flash at all. Most people do not want control over flash or anything else, they just want to, wait for it...

...point and shoot!

Thus the appeal of the Sony NEX cameras...APS-C, smaller size, P&S looks.

 

[Leonard Migliore]

I've been comparing entry level DSLR cameras, and it seems that one feature is very sorely missing from most of the cameras that even cost $600 - $800 or so. Manual control over the flash, to fire it at 1/2 power 1/128 power, etc. I know the stock flash isn't that powerful, but why would this not be a standard option on a dslr, without having to buy an expensive external flash.

I know its not hard to do, even some 5 year old obsolete P&S cameras allow you at least some control over the flash output (although they are more like 3 stage selectable than full control.

I can't think of a reason to have manual control over your in-camera flash. The things do fine with auto-exposure and aren't really capable of pleasant results in any situation.

If you want to fiddle with a flash, buy an accessory one. Even then, there are limited reasons to use manual power with a single flash because the TTL control is pretty flexible. Once you have a bunch of flashes, then it becomes useful to control them manually to get the right lighting balance.

--
Leonard Migliore

 

[AnandaSim]

I've been comparing entry level DSLR cameras, and it seems that one feature is very sorely missing from most of the cameras that even cost $600 - $800 or so. Manual control over the flash, to fire it at 1/2 power 1/128 power, etc. I know the stock flash isn't that powerful, but why would this not be a standard option on a dslr, without having to buy an expensive external flash.

You won't let a point go without challenge, will you?

I responded in a previous thread (haven't gone back to look at it) that:

• DSLRs are designed to be systems, NOT All-in-Ones - There is an expectation that you WILL WANT TO BUY MORE STUFF unlike All-In-Ones.

• You ALREADY SAID the "stock flash" by which you mean the built-in one, isn't powerful. Did you hear what you said? IT ISN'T POWERFUL enough to use 1/128 for general use photography. Plus, it has a small head, not enough height to clear the long lens if you get other lenses, not wide enough to throw light to 24mm (or wider) for wide lenses and is stuck pointing forward when most of us want it to bounce vertical or sideways and there is no point bouncing vertical or sideways because IT ISN'T POWER ENOUGH.

That said, my Olympus DSLR flash does allow reasonable manual power adjustment.

Except that for a DSLR I have NOT YET used the flash. I routinely use the flash on my bridge cam Kodak P880 for dinner party shots but not my DSLR - because I don't carry a DSLR to dinner parties.

I know its not hard to do, even some 5 year old obsolete P&S cameras allow you at least some control over the flash output (although they are more like 3 stage selectable than full control.

There is NO QUESTION of whether it is hard to do or technologically possible. We just don't figure we want to or need to.

--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com
https://sites.google.com/site/asphotokb

'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little'

 

[KenCK41]

Don't know about new entry level cameras, however such control is easy with my Nikon D90. I do use it for fill on macro shots. Frequently dial it down to 1/8 or 1/16.

 

[MajorNikon]

I can't think of a reason to have manual control over your in-camera flash. The things do fine with auto-exposure and aren't really capable of pleasant results in any situation.

There are reasons. TTL can be fooled or provide inconsistent results in some situations. Being able to override it with manual control is not something you need to do often, but it's definitely handy when you do. The built in flash is capable of pleasant results in all sorts of situations. I use mine all the time even though I have more than a half dozen external flashes.

 

[rsn48]

I can control flash output on a pop up on my Canon Xsi (450D) and probably my 5D mk 2 (haven't looked) with the flash compensation option; this allows you to dial down the flash if you want.

Want to increase power, dial up the ISO.

Pop up flash used for fill lighting is a great little options most don't use. A guy was whining and complaining about a lens he had saying how crappy it was. He shot a pic in a park as light was beginning to wane and of course the entire group of three people turned out dark but with ambient light. I asked to borrow his camera and shot the same shot except I turned on the fill flash, he loved the picture. And I made sure the shutter speed was slow to maintain the ambient back light.

I don't know what camera you have but I suspect you might have flash compensation - RTFM.

--
An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.

 

[archer69]

I've been comparing entry level DSLR cameras, and it seems that one feature is very sorely missing from most of the cameras that even cost $600 - $800 or so.

Not sure what you talk about, but even the most basic SLR's have Flash Exposure Compensations. Not sure what else you need/want?

--
Regards,
JH
JH-Pphotography

 

[MajorNikon]

I can control flash output on a pop up on my Canon Xsi (450D) and probably my 5D mk 2 (haven't looked) with the flash compensation option; this allows you to dial down the flash if you want.

Want to increase power, dial up the ISO.

Manual control is not the same thing as flash compensation. Flash compensation still relies on TTL and is dynamic. In other words, let's say you're using TTL with or without flash compensation, the flash may pop at 1/64 for one exposure and 1/32 for the next, even with the same framing. With manual you have complete control over the flash output and it's static. If you set it to 1/64 it's going to be 1/64 for each and every pop so long as it has enough charge.

With Nikon cameras that have the commander mode built into the camera, you can put the built in flash into manual mode. I have no idea if Canons can do this or not.

 

[ChrisLumix]

I've been comparing entry level DSLR cameras, and it seems that one feature is very sorely missing from most of the cameras that even cost $600 - $800 or so. Manual control over the flash, to fire it at 1/2 power 1/128 power, etc. I know the stock flash isn't that powerful, but why would this not be a standard option on a dslr, without having to buy an expensive external flash.

I know its not hard to do, even some 5 year old obsolete P&S cameras allow you at least some control over the flash output (although they are more like 3 stage selectable than full control.

I would find it very surprising if DSLRs didn't allow any control over flash? My bridge camera allows from -2 to +2 flash output variation, in 1/3 stop stages. Which means that I can use 'fill flash' for example.
--
Panas0n!c Lum!x FZ-38

 

[Leonard Migliore]

I would find it very surprising if DSLRs didn't allow any control over flash? My bridge camera allows from -2 to +2 flash output variation, in 1/3 stop stages. Which means that I can use 'fill flash' for example.

I think that's flash compensation, where the flash output is varied from a nominal value based on metering. That's what my D300 has, and it's useful for balancing flash exposure with ambient light.

The O.P. wanted direct control of the flash power, which is useful in fewer situations.
--
Leonard Migliore

 

[carl1864]

Yeah flash compensation is a little better than nothing, but I have to agree fully with what MajorNikon said above. I think DSLR's are supposed to be all about control, thats how they are generally advertised, so why not allow the simple feature of control over the flash? To me it should just be a standard on every DSLR, whether entry level or not, the same way Shutter speed, Aperture, and Iso is standard on every DSLR regardless if their price range. I mean, what if they released a entry level DSLR that did not allow a shutter speed adjustment? Or did not allow Aperture? To me flash control is a pretty equal part of the whole equasion.

Another thing I really don't like, at least on my two main cameras, a P&S and a Bridge Camera is the way the flash metering works. They both seem to do the metering via a preflash, which simply adds to shutter lag. Yes, its very fast, in fact you could almost confuse the two flashes for a single flash if your not paying attention, yet I do lots of photography that requites lightning fast reaction, and that extra 1/10 of a second for the preflash metering is a pain. I've seen my nikon P100 is advertised as only having a .01 second shutter lag (if prefocussed), however its seems to basically be a lie, since its .01 second, then the preflash, then the shot. I want control to set the flash level to the exact amount I feel my shot needs, and be able to click the shutter and fire the shot instantly, with one single flash.

Is this how DSLR cameras generally meter their flash? Or do they have a more efficient way of doing it that does not add to shutter time?

 

[trekkeruss]

I think DSLR's are supposed to be all about control

There are different design goals for each camera a manufacturer makes. Until you buy and use a DSLR, be it an entry level or pro model, all these questions and hand wringing over features you think are important are somewhat pointless...you haven't had the experience to know what is or is not missing.

 

[MajorNikon]

Is this how DSLR cameras generally meter their flash? Or do they have a more efficient way of doing it that does not add to shutter time?

You can always use the 'automatic' mode on speedlights that support it. There's also the old 'analog' TTL, which worked by simply shutting off the flash when enough light has been received. It was identical to the automatic mode found in thyristor flashes, except the sensor was located next to the film plane instead of on the flash. I'm sure there are some DLSRs that support the old TTL, but most modern DLSRs favor the preflash because it works with multiple flash setups. I don't know what the lag time is, but I think it's much faster than 1/10th of a second. Personally I can't perceive any effect on shutter lag.

 

[ChrisLumix]

I would find it very surprising if DSLRs didn't allow any control over flash? My bridge camera allows from -2 to +2 flash output variation, in 1/3 stop stages. Which means that I can use 'fill flash' for example.

I think that's flash compensation, where the flash output is varied from a nominal value based on metering. That's what my D300 has, and it's useful for balancing flash exposure with ambient light.

The O.P. wanted direct control of the flash power, which is useful in fewer situations.
--

Right, yes I get the distinction now. Having said that, I tested out the flash compensation at close quarters, and the difference was pretty dramatic from minimum to maximum compensation. I'm trying hard to understand why anyone would want FULL control? I remember the days of manual flashguns where you had to calculate the exposure using the guide number plus distance to subject - I would have killed for the camera to take that burden from me

--
Panas0n!c Lum!x FZ-38

 

[phonebook]

an all manual flash unit to pop in the hotshoe can be had for not much at all. if you have any nikon dslr, an sb24, 25, 26, 27 , or, 28 will all do the job and can be had used in top condition for 50 pounds or so, possibly less

same will be true for canon and pentax (in fact they may be cheaper)

you can have fully manual flash control down to 1/128