CP5700 Assessment

[JimTanCanada]

Hi Guys,

Early report on The Nikon CP 5700

I bought the CP5700 with some hesitation. There were many complaints on the forums. After 200 plus pictures, it is clear that the camera takes good pictures. The problem is with the camera firmware.

My previous and only digital camera was the Canon S40. So, the Nikon was a shock. The Canon was a simple, elegant and trustworthy companion. The Nikon is a power tool of unnecessary complexity that has to be mastered.

The Nikon's primary processes of focusing, metering, image capture and storage work fine.

1) Focusing works quickly and very well. Better than the small Canon. Users have had focus problems if they used the default AF Area Mode (which was intended for User Set A). Nikon should have disabled this setting for User Set 1,2, and 3.

2) In poor light, the camera locks focus immediately if there is some directed light shining on the scene. In this respect, it is superior to the Canon and its AF assist light. I have taken low light macro pictures at two-second exposures.

3) Yes, the MF is disappointing. The S40 is much worse. You cannot fit a proper MF focus system into such compact bodies.

4) The metering is constant and instantaneous. At the moment, it seems that the Nikon creates more contrast than the Canon. Will explore this further.

5) If you disable the bells and whistles, the Nikon shutter fires quickly. The problem is with saving to the CF card. If you are willing to save medium files at medium compression, the cycle time is about the same as a film camera's manual advance.

6) The cycle time for NEF and TIFF is unacceptable. In the future, better and cheaper electronics should eliminate this problem.

The Nikon's physical ergonomics is good. The camera has bulges but I can wrap my small fingers around the camera for steady shots. Every button and switch is within fingertip distance. You can change major controls without taking your eye from the EVF. No, I have not accidentally activated any buttons.

The BSS is amazing. I estimated that the Nikon's BBS and handling stability was worth 2 stops, compared to my small Canon. The swivel LCD is great.

The EVF works well for me. I wear thick glasses and I have to take them off when I review the picture on the LCD. The EVF simplifies and improves my workflow.

The Nikon has critical design and implementation flaws.

1) Time pressure must be an element in several design mistakes. The tripod mount is not centered on the lens. The lens has no native ability to mount filters. It's possible that the CP5700 successor will be a radical redesign.

2) The camera has too many options. The problem is that options create permutations exponentially. I suspect that Nikon still has a "technical" culture. Nikon has to find the will to eliminate a third of the options. Right now, Nikon is forcing the user to hack their way through the options.

3) Nikon has not sorted out the logic tree of the camera's operation. Not surprising if you consider the complexity. Hence, the problem with the AF Area Mode.

4) Some switches are redundant. The play/record switch is unnecessary. Important functions could be brought out from the menu to replace this switch.

5) The User Set function is an important milestone. But, it has been badly implemented. There should be a workspace from which User Sets can be saved and recalled.

Conclusion

1) The Canon is the user-friendly camera. It is user-friendly because of design. Nikon take note.

2) The Nikon has good SLR-like physical ergonomics, but tarnished by its software. Hasn't Nikon learned from the CP5000 public relations fiasco?

3) Yet, we must salute Nikon's aspiration to create a serious DSLR competitor. The potential is there but the CP 5700 isn't it. Not until it upgrades its firmware.

4) Nikon has to make choices and simplify its cameras. That said, the CP 5700 has improved digicam technology.

--
Jim Tan

 

[Jim]

Hi Guys,

Early report on The Nikon CP 5700...

(snip, strictly to save space)

Hi Jim:

I enjoyed reading your write up. It will be interesting to see how Phil Askey's comments parallel yours. I'm also a Canon owner (G2) and was looking at the CP 5700 to purchase. The CP 5700 is very close from a feature set that I'm looking for but I agree with you that many features simply will never be used (by me, anyway). Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Jim

http://www.pbase.com/jiml

 

[Adrian Calin]

I used to have a G2 - you will not notice any difference in terms of print-outs, but the 5700 is much better at handling - it is faster and has a good focus, what they call low light focusing problems is extremely rare, and in extremely dark conditions. It seem reliable, has a rugged construction, and better response time in general. I would not go back to G2, on the other hand, it's time for Canon to release a new camera, perhaps a G3. They do have excellent low noise levels, Nikon wins at mettering (in my opinion) though. If I were you and considering Photokina is about 1 month to go - wait and see what comes out.

Hi Guys,

Early report on The Nikon CP 5700...

(snip, strictly to save space)

Hi Jim:

I enjoyed reading your write up. It will be interesting to see how
Phil Askey's comments parallel yours. I'm also a Canon owner (G2)
and was looking at the CP 5700 to purchase. The CP 5700 is very
close from a feature set that I'm looking for but I agree with you
that many features simply will never be used (by me, anyway).
Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Jim

http://www.pbase.com/jiml

 

[Russell Garner]

Nice constructive post

3) Yes, the MF is disappointing. The S40 is much worse. You cannot
fit a proper MF focus system into such compact bodies.

Don't agree here. See the excellent fly-by-wire MF system in the Fuji FinePix 6900, which is smaller than the 5700.

6) The cycle time for NEF and TIFF is unacceptable. In the future,
better and cheaper electronics should eliminate this problem.

Have you tried a faster card than the Sandisk starter card? It doesn't make vast amounts of difference, granted, but it does make significant changes even with a cheap card (e.g. Sandisk TIFF: 22s, Dane-Elec: 16.5s)

The Nikon's physical ergonomics is good. The camera has bulges but
I can wrap my small fingers around the camera for steady shots.
Every button and switch is within fingertip distance. You can
change major controls without taking your eye from the EVF. No, I
have not accidentally activated any buttons.

Mostly good ergonomics. The power switch is easily knocked when taking the camera out of a bag. The four len-barrel mounted buttons take a lot of getting used to before you can use the camera without stopping and referring to them. They need to be different sizes and shapes and spread out for more easy access towards the front of the lens barrel. Currently, they're very awkwardly positioned, unless my style of holding the camera is very unorthodox or I just have long fingers.

2) The camera has too many options. The problem is that options
create permutations exponentially. I suspect that Nikon still has a
"technical" culture. Nikon has to find the will to eliminate a
third of the options. Right now, Nikon is forcing the user to hack
their way through the options.
3) Nikon has not sorted out the logic tree of the camera's
operation. Not surprising if you consider the complexity. Hence,
the problem with the AF Area Mode.

I think one thing Nikon could do to improve beginners' lots here is to make is clearer in the firmware which options are mutually exclusive. For example, if I select Best Shot Selector, it should grey out incompatible features such as continuous shooting and white balance bracketing. At the moment the cursor just skips these options and beginners are left wondering why.

 

[JimTanCanada]

Thanks Russel.

Russell Garner wrote:

Mostly good ergonomics. The power switch is easily knocked when taking the camera out of a bag. The four len-barrel mounted buttons take a lot of getting used to before you can use the camera without stopping and referring to them. They need to be different sizes and shapes and spread out for more easy access towards the front of the lens barrel. Currently, they're very awkwardly positioned, unless my style of holding the camera is very unorthodox or I just have long fingers.

I have not seen how you hold the camera. So, a few general remarks about holding a camera.

1) Don't grip the camera. There will be a nervous reaction when you relax. No one can grip a camera or rifle for long.

2) I hold the camera by placing the weight on my palm and using my fingers to balance the camera.

3) My fingers do slide over the buttons but I don't exert enough pressure to accidently activate the buttons.

4) When i want to use a button, I quickly slide my thumb over all the buttons. This gives me the orientation of the button that I want.

With this style, it doesn't matter to me how the buttons are placed.

Hope this helps??

--
Jim Tan

 

[Ed T.]

2) In poor light, the camera locks focus immediately if there is
some directed light shining on the scene. In this respect, it is
superior to the Canon and its AF assist light. I have taken low
light macro pictures at two-second exposures.

Nice assesment Jim....

I thought I'd single out #2 above since the low-light business had me worried when I researched prior to purchasing.

I've found that even a simple pen light will suffice and give the CP5700 enough to focus on..... which can even be more useful because you can pick the spot for it.

I realize this is not always an option for people -- but it works for my uses just fine.

As far as complexity, .. I agree that things could be a little more intuitive, but.... I'm the type that wants to be able to tweak, and I sure wouldn't want to give up anything now!...

Ok, I'll admit it, .... I just don't want them to come out with a 'next generation' camera until I've had mine for a while. --
Ed.

 

[Ken.]

2) The camera has too many options. The problem is that options
create permutations exponentially. I suspect that Nikon still has a
"technical" culture. Nikon has to find the will to eliminate a
third of the options. Right now, Nikon is forcing the user to hack
their way through the options.

Not sure if users really would want this. Seems that some go with the Nikon because of the options. Just don't use the ones you don't like. :c)

4) Some switches are redundant. The play/record switch is
unnecessary. Important functions could be brought out from the menu
to replace this switch.

The play/record switch does have an important function with the 5000 and the 5700! If you want to use the camera to view shots and don't want the lens to extend the only way is to slide the switch to play before you turn it on.

Ken.

 

[Hariette]

Hi Jim!

You summed up your experience with the cameras admirably.

I personally find the features of the CP5K (I can not speak for the 5700 but it seems to be similar) quite easy to learn overall. Its problem is having to use them all the times to get the best results, it's like chasing the sun through the clouds, and like the weather it is unpredictible at times and you have to be ready. And I'm tired to have to adjust if a cloud comes along and still not be sure of the result. I guess I want simplicity now and a trustworthy companion (like you said). Nikon seems to be the "PC Windows" of cameras... I'd like an "Apple" now

I must add that if Nikon comes with a new firmware for the 5700 before the CP5000 I will not be happy!

Thanks for sharing your experience with the cameras. Excellent points.

Hi Guys,

Early report on The Nikon CP 5700

I bought the CP5700 with some hesitation. There were many
complaints on the forums. After 200 plus pictures, it is clear that
the camera takes good pictures. The problem is with the camera
firmware.

My previous and only digital camera was the Canon S40. So, the
Nikon was a shock. The Canon was a simple, elegant and trustworthy
companion. The Nikon is a power tool of unnecessary complexity that
has to be mastered.

The Nikon's primary processes of focusing, metering, image capture
and storage work fine.
1) Focusing works quickly and very well. Better than the small
Canon. Users have had focus problems if they used the default AF
Area Mode (which was intended for User Set A). Nikon should have
disabled this setting for User Set 1,2, and 3.
2) In poor light, the camera locks focus immediately if there is
some directed light shining on the scene. In this respect, it is
superior to the Canon and its AF assist light. I have taken low
light macro pictures at two-second exposures.
3) Yes, the MF is disappointing. The S40 is much worse. You cannot
fit a proper MF focus system into such compact bodies.
4) The metering is constant and instantaneous. At the moment, it
seems that the Nikon creates more contrast than the Canon. Will
explore this further.
5) If you disable the bells and whistles, the Nikon shutter fires
quickly. The problem is with saving to the CF card. If you are
willing to save medium files at medium compression, the cycle time
is about the same as a film camera's manual advance.
6) The cycle time for NEF and TIFF is unacceptable. In the future,
better and cheaper electronics should eliminate this problem.

The Nikon's physical ergonomics is good. The camera has bulges but
I can wrap my small fingers around the camera for steady shots.
Every button and switch is within fingertip distance. You can
change major controls without taking your eye from the EVF. No, I
have not accidentally activated any buttons.

The BSS is amazing. I estimated that the Nikon's BBS and handling
stability was worth 2 stops, compared to my small Canon. The swivel
LCD is great.

The EVF works well for me. I wear thick glasses and I have to take
them off when I review the picture on the LCD. The EVF simplifies
and improves my workflow.

The Nikon has critical design and implementation flaws.
1) Time pressure must be an element in several design mistakes. The
tripod mount is not centered on the lens. The lens has no native
ability to mount filters. It's possible that the CP5700 successor
will be a radical redesign.
2) The camera has too many options. The problem is that options
create permutations exponentially. I suspect that Nikon still has a
"technical" culture. Nikon has to find the will to eliminate a
third of the options. Right now, Nikon is forcing the user to hack
their way through the options.
3) Nikon has not sorted out the logic tree of the camera's
operation. Not surprising if you consider the complexity. Hence,
the problem with the AF Area Mode.
4) Some switches are redundant. The play/record switch is
unnecessary. Important functions could be brought out from the menu
to replace this switch.
5) The User Set function is an important milestone. But, it has
been badly implemented. There should be a workspace from which User
Sets can be saved and recalled.

Conclusion
1) The Canon is the user-friendly camera. It is user-friendly
because of design. Nikon take note.
2) The Nikon has good SLR-like physical ergonomics, but tarnished
by its software. Hasn't Nikon learned from the CP5000 public
relations fiasco?
3) Yet, we must salute Nikon's aspiration to create a serious DSLR
competitor. The potential is there but the CP 5700 isn't it. Not
until it upgrades its firmware.
4) Nikon has to make choices and simplify its cameras. That said,
the CP 5700 has improved digicam technology.

--
Jim Tan

 

[Russell Garner]

I have not seen how you hold the camera. So, a few general remarks
about holding a camera.

1) Don't grip the camera. There will be a nervous reaction when you
relax. No one can grip a camera or rifle for long.

I have learned to relax a little more in the past few weeks. I take my best pictures when slightly inebriated

2) I hold the camera by placing the weight on my palm and using my
fingers to balance the camera.

I support the camera with my left palm and operate the lens barrel buttons with my right thumb. Sadly, the buttons need to be a quarter of an inch further forward to make this really comfortable. This is probably just me - I injured my left thumb a few months ago on a military vehicle excursion and now it moves with a little more difficulty.

3) My fingers do slide over the buttons but I don't exert enough
pressure to accidently activate the buttons.

Same here - I think I only accidentally triggered one in the first couple of days of owning. I haven't done it much since - as you say, if you relax they're not easily knocked.

4) When i want to use a button, I quickly slide my thumb over all
the buttons. This gives me the orientation of the button that I
want.

Have learned to do this in the past couple of days. I'm not stopping composition and checking the camera's side any more. Well, sometimes

With this style, it doesn't matter to me how the buttons are placed.

Hope this helps??

Had I managed to read it before I went away last weekend, it would have. Fortunately, I've managed to learn to relax with it while I've been away and have naturally come to do what you suggested anyway

Thanks

Russ

 

[Dave20730]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there, JimTan: Vancouver Island, BC here.

Interesting critique on the 5700, which was the only other
camera I had for cosideration when replacing my Minolta D7,
which has now been replaced, with the D7i, thank the good
lord!

Have you ever tried the 7i? Regards, Dave.

PS. My reason for coming in to this forum is that I used to
own a CP990, and I like to "keep in touch."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Guys,

Early report on The Nikon CP 5700

I bought the CP5700 with some hesitation. There were many
complaints on the forums. After 200 plus pictures, it is clear that
the camera takes good pictures. The problem is with the camera
firmware.

My previous and only digital camera was the Canon S40. So, the
Nikon was a shock. The Canon was a simple, elegant and trustworthy
companion. The Nikon is a power tool of unnecessary complexity that
has to be mastered.

The Nikon's primary processes of focusing, metering, image capture
and storage work fine.
1) Focusing works quickly and very well. Better than the small
Canon. Users have had focus problems if they used the default AF
Area Mode (which was intended for User Set A). Nikon should have
disabled this setting for User Set 1,2, and 3.
2) In poor light, the camera locks focus immediately if there is
some directed light shining on the scene. In this respect, it is
superior to the Canon and its AF assist light. I have taken low
light macro pictures at two-second exposures.
3) Yes, the MF is disappointing. The S40 is much worse. You cannot
fit a proper MF focus system into such compact bodies.
4) The metering is constant and instantaneous. At the moment, it
seems that the Nikon creates more contrast than the Canon. Will
explore this further.
5) If you disable the bells and whistles, the Nikon shutter fires
quickly. The problem is with saving to the CF card. If you are
willing to save medium files at medium compression, the cycle time
is about the same as a film camera's manual advance.
6) The cycle time for NEF and TIFF is unacceptable. In the future,
better and cheaper electronics should eliminate this problem.

The Nikon's physical ergonomics is good. The camera has bulges but
I can wrap my small fingers around the camera for steady shots.
Every button and switch is within fingertip distance. You can
change major controls without taking your eye from the EVF. No, I
have not accidentally activated any buttons.

The BSS is amazing. I estimated that the Nikon's BBS and handling
stability was worth 2 stops, compared to my small Canon. The swivel
LCD is great.

The EVF works well for me. I wear thick glasses and I have to take
them off when I review the picture on the LCD. The EVF simplifies
and improves my workflow.

The Nikon has critical design and implementation flaws.
1) Time pressure must be an element in several design mistakes. The
tripod mount is not centered on the lens. The lens has no native
ability to mount filters. It's possible that the CP5700 successor
will be a radical redesign.
2) The camera has too many options. The problem is that options
create permutations exponentially. I suspect that Nikon still has a
"technical" culture. Nikon has to find the will to eliminate a
third of the options. Right now, Nikon is forcing the user to hack
their way through the options.
3) Nikon has not sorted out the logic tree of the camera's
operation. Not surprising if you consider the complexity. Hence,
the problem with the AF Area Mode.
4) Some switches are redundant. The play/record switch is
unnecessary. Important functions could be brought out from the menu
to replace this switch.
5) The User Set function is an important milestone. But, it has
been badly implemented. There should be a workspace from which User
Sets can be saved and recalled.

Conclusion
1) The Canon is the user-friendly camera. It is user-friendly
because of design. Nikon take note.
2) The Nikon has good SLR-like physical ergonomics, but tarnished
by its software. Hasn't Nikon learned from the CP5000 public
relations fiasco?
3) Yet, we must salute Nikon's aspiration to create a serious DSLR
competitor. The potential is there but the CP 5700 isn't it. Not
until it upgrades its firmware.
4) Nikon has to make choices and simplify its cameras. That said,
the CP 5700 has improved digicam technology.

--
Jim Tan

 

[JimTanCanada]

Nope, because Minolta is a minor player. The reviews of the 7 were not too good either.

So, how is the 7i?

--
Jim Tan

--
Jim Tan

 

[Russell Garner]

2) I hold the camera by placing the weight on my palm and using my
fingers to balance the camera.

I support the camera with my left palm and operate the lens barrel
buttons with my right thumb. Sadly, the buttons need to be a

Meant to say 'left thumb', of course

 

[JimTanCanada]

I had been hasty about the quality of low light focus. I have just compared the Nikon with the Canon S40 in a lighted room. Yes, the Nikon does need an assist light. In areas of shadow, the Nikon just cannot lock focus.

Raising the ISO to 400 helps. And, a strong torch light can act as an assist light. Surprisingly, enabling the AF Area Automatic was the most effective measure. Why should this be so?

Confirms the initial impression that the camera is technically robust, but confusing. Users beware!

--
Jim Tan

 

[JimTanCanada]

Follow this thread. DreamU and Bimo have identified the solution.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=3217558

--
Jim Tan

 

[Frank B]

Gee and I have been doing all these contortions with my right thumb since reading your post.

Frank B

2) I hold the camera by placing the weight on my palm and using my
fingers to balance the camera.

I support the camera with my left palm and operate the lens barrel
buttons with my right thumb. Sadly, the buttons need to be a

Meant to say 'left thumb', of course

 

[cWills109000]

Hi Guys,

Early report on The Nikon CP 5700

I bought the CP5700 with some hesitation. There were many
complaints on the forums. After 200 plus pictures, it is clear that
the camera takes good pictures. The problem is with the camera
firmware.

I like the smaller 4500 over the previous bigger sized coolpix line.

My previous and only digital camera was the Canon S40. So, the
Nikon was a shock. The Canon was a simple, elegant and trustworthy
companion. The Nikon is a power tool of unnecessary complexity that
has to be mastered.

Since when is complexity necessary ;-)) I know what you mean. The Cp5000 was known as one of the harder cameras to use. Tons of function buttons to get to know. Then you had to learn to hold the camera with a certain grip so sensors will not be blocked. And there is more but I will not go into it.

The Nikon's primary processes of focusing, metering, image capture
and storage work fine.
1) Focusing works quickly and very well. Better than the small
Canon. Users have had focus problems if they used the default AF
Area Mode (which was intended for User Set A). Nikon should have
disabled this setting for User Set 1,2, and 3.
2) In poor light, the camera locks focus immediately if there is
some directed light shining on the scene. In this respect, it is
superior to the Canon and its AF assist light. I have taken low
light macro pictures at two-second exposures.

Funny, I think Phil said it has poor (i think that is what he said) low light focussing???

3) Yes, the MF is disappointing. The S40 is much worse. You cannot
fit a proper MF focus system into such compact bodies.
4) The metering is constant and instantaneous. At the moment, it
seems that the Nikon creates more contrast than the Canon. Will
explore this further.
5) If you disable the bells and whistles, the Nikon shutter fires
quickly. The problem is with saving to the CF card. If you are
willing to save medium files at medium compression, the cycle time
is about the same as a film camera's manual advance.
6) The cycle time for NEF and TIFF is unacceptable. In the future,
better and cheaper electronics should eliminate this problem.

The Nikon's physical ergonomics is good. The camera has bulges but
I can wrap my small fingers around the camera for steady shots.
Every button and switch is within fingertip distance. You can
change major controls without taking your eye from the EVF. No, I
have not accidentally activated any buttons.

The BSS is amazing. I estimated that the Nikon's BBS and handling
stability was worth 2 stops, compared to my small Canon. The swivel
LCD is great.

The EVF works well for me. I wear thick glasses and I have to take
them off when I review the picture on the LCD. The EVF simplifies
and improves my workflow.

The Nikon has critical design and implementation flaws.
1) Time pressure must be an element in several design mistakes. The
tripod mount is not centered on the lens. The lens has no native
ability to mount filters. It's possible that the CP5700 successor
will be a radical redesign.
2) The camera has too many options. The problem is that options
create permutations exponentially. I suspect that Nikon still has a
"technical" culture. Nikon has to find the will to eliminate a
third of the options. Right now, Nikon is forcing the user to hack
their way through the options.
3) Nikon has not sorted out the logic tree of the camera's
operation. Not surprising if you consider the complexity. Hence,
the problem with the AF Area Mode.
4) Some switches are redundant. The play/record switch is
unnecessary. Important functions could be brought out from the menu
to replace this switch.
5) The User Set function is an important milestone. But, it has
been badly implemented. There should be a workspace from which User
Sets can be saved and recalled.

Conclusion
1) The Canon is the user-friendly camera. It is user-friendly
because of design. Nikon take note.

I agree.

2) The Nikon has good SLR-like physical ergonomics, but tarnished
by its software. Hasn't Nikon learned from the CP5000 public
relations fiasco?

Apparently not ;-((

3) Yet, we must salute Nikon's aspiration to create a serious DSLR
competitor. The potential is there but the CP 5700 isn't it. Not
until it upgrades its firmware.

The 4500 a serious DSLR competitor? I do not think so but you are welcomed to your observation ;-)) I think a lot of 990 owmers will not be tempted to upgrade yet. The good news is that Nikon seems to have rid the camera of purple fringing (finally, what took so long?).

4) Nikon has to make choices and simplify its cameras. That said,
the CP 5700 has improved digicam technology.

--
Jim Tan

 

[cWills109000]

I had been hasty about the quality of low light focus. I have just
compared the Nikon with the Canon S40 in a lighted room. Yes, the
Nikon does need an assist light. In areas of shadow, the Nikon just
cannot lock focus.

This may be more close to Phil's finding in the review. I think he said it has poor low light focussing.

Raising the ISO to 400 helps. And, a strong torch light can act

Torch light??? You mean flashlight, I think. Do you really want to take pics with 400 iso? How hard is it for Nikon to add a focus assist light? People have asked for it a long time.
as

an assist light. Surprisingly, enabling the AF Area Automatic was
the most effective measure. Why should this be so?

Confirms the initial impression that the camera is technically
robust, but confusing. Users beware!

Nothing new to Nikon owners ;-))

--
Jim Tan