bayoubooger
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Anything But Canon, you fools ROCK? On the wrong forum?
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Best cam for watch photogrpahy, to be publishable in book form.
- Thread starter richardc7777
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You have a million and one options. I was pretty big into macro photography a few years back, so I've been up and down this subject myself. Here is what I've learned.
If you want the best, get a DSLR with a real macro lens. Just because the lens title says macro does not make it a true dedicated macro lens. Read some lens reviews and you'll figure it out. Be prepared to spend about $1,000 on the lens alone, unless you find an old-school manual one. (Do plenty of research to make sure it will work with whichever DSLR body you choose.) One big advantage of DSLRs is their assortment of flashes. If you are using your own lighting (which you probably are) this is not important. It's only important if you want macro photography to become your hobby.
Point and shoots can also take very good macros. (This is what I used for 95% of my macro shots.) My advice for this would be to get a used, cheap , super zoom camera (I have made plenty of great shots with the Canon S2IS), then pair it with the Raynox DCR-250 closeup lens (it's a +8 diopter closeup lens). Don't be afraid to go a few model numbers back if you're looking to save money. Their brand new model will do fine as well but it's overkill for this. You'll need to buy a thread adapter from lensmateonline.com to mount the DCR-250. When you take macros with a closeup lens attached, the trick is to ignore the "macro" setting on the camera and just zoom all the way in (full telephoto). The more telephoto, the more magnification you get, which is why a super zoom is nice here. Use at least f/5.6 or f/8 or the depth of field may be too shallow.
If you just want something simple that will take a picture about 4 centimeters across, feel free to go for a bare point and shoot like you originally mentioned. This is a great alternative if you just want some macro shots and don't necessarily want to make it a hobby. You don't need a G12 or an S95... a cheaper camera will do. In fact, the SD4000 (recently reduced to $220) takes better macro photos. Look for yourself:
S90 macro photo (same lens as S95):
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/canons90/samples/macro/wide.JPG
G11 macro photo (same lens as G12):
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonG11/Samples/Macro/IMG_3497.JPG
SD4000 macro photo:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Canonsd4000is/samples/macro/Wide_IMG_1194.JPG
The SD4000 has better sharpness and less distortion than either of the other two (distortion will be important if you are taking watch photos), and it has much better magnification than the S90. All three of these probably have better magnification than the 18-55 kit lenses on DSLRs. The kit lenses are ho hum at macro shots. (They are decent when paired with closeup lenses, however.)
In my opinion a super zoom with a DCR-250 is the way to go. I'm guessing you'll pay about $150 for the used camera, $20 for an adapter, and $50 for the closeup lens. It will give you high-quality closeups of watch parts (a centimeter or two across, depending on which camera you use).
Something like the SD4000 will give you high quality closeups of watch faces, but you won't be able to fill the frame with one of the smaller dials. You also won't have manual focus (but you will have focus lock!).
A DSLR with a true macro lens will give you an empty bank account. It's still very nice to have though. But 90% of the time you won't be able to tell whether it was taken with a DSLR or with a point and shoot. Your attention to detail will be far more important than the camera.
In any of the cases above, use plenty of good lighting. Good luck!
If you want the best, get a DSLR with a real macro lens. Just because the lens title says macro does not make it a true dedicated macro lens. Read some lens reviews and you'll figure it out. Be prepared to spend about $1,000 on the lens alone, unless you find an old-school manual one. (Do plenty of research to make sure it will work with whichever DSLR body you choose.) One big advantage of DSLRs is their assortment of flashes. If you are using your own lighting (which you probably are) this is not important. It's only important if you want macro photography to become your hobby.
Point and shoots can also take very good macros. (This is what I used for 95% of my macro shots.) My advice for this would be to get a used, cheap , super zoom camera (I have made plenty of great shots with the Canon S2IS), then pair it with the Raynox DCR-250 closeup lens (it's a +8 diopter closeup lens). Don't be afraid to go a few model numbers back if you're looking to save money. Their brand new model will do fine as well but it's overkill for this. You'll need to buy a thread adapter from lensmateonline.com to mount the DCR-250. When you take macros with a closeup lens attached, the trick is to ignore the "macro" setting on the camera and just zoom all the way in (full telephoto). The more telephoto, the more magnification you get, which is why a super zoom is nice here. Use at least f/5.6 or f/8 or the depth of field may be too shallow.
If you just want something simple that will take a picture about 4 centimeters across, feel free to go for a bare point and shoot like you originally mentioned. This is a great alternative if you just want some macro shots and don't necessarily want to make it a hobby. You don't need a G12 or an S95... a cheaper camera will do. In fact, the SD4000 (recently reduced to $220) takes better macro photos. Look for yourself:
S90 macro photo (same lens as S95):
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/canons90/samples/macro/wide.JPG
G11 macro photo (same lens as G12):
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonG11/Samples/Macro/IMG_3497.JPG
SD4000 macro photo:
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Canonsd4000is/samples/macro/Wide_IMG_1194.JPG
The SD4000 has better sharpness and less distortion than either of the other two (distortion will be important if you are taking watch photos), and it has much better magnification than the S90. All three of these probably have better magnification than the 18-55 kit lenses on DSLRs. The kit lenses are ho hum at macro shots. (They are decent when paired with closeup lenses, however.)
In my opinion a super zoom with a DCR-250 is the way to go. I'm guessing you'll pay about $150 for the used camera, $20 for an adapter, and $50 for the closeup lens. It will give you high-quality closeups of watch parts (a centimeter or two across, depending on which camera you use).
Something like the SD4000 will give you high quality closeups of watch faces, but you won't be able to fill the frame with one of the smaller dials. You also won't have manual focus (but you will have focus lock!).
A DSLR with a true macro lens will give you an empty bank account. It's still very nice to have though. But 90% of the time you won't be able to tell whether it was taken with a DSLR or with a point and shoot. Your attention to detail will be far more important than the camera.
In any of the cases above, use plenty of good lighting. Good luck!
richardc7777
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J1000
This looks like great advice, many thanks for taking the time to type out this weighty reply!
So the DCR-250 will attach to which lens? All Canon compacts? Or just the types you mention?
Rich
This looks like great advice, many thanks for taking the time to type out this weighty reply!
So the DCR-250 will attach to which lens? All Canon compacts? Or just the types you mention?
Rich
richardc7777
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My other question is will the s95, G12, SD4000 etc give me noticeably better results than my SX210is? I find that doesn't focus close enough, but i guess that's where the DCR-250 comes in...right?
Oh you have an SX210? With no attachments, it does about as well as the S95 (that is, about average). Paired with a DCR-250 the SX210 would really excel because it has a long telephoto setting, BUT there is one problem: The SX210 does not support lens adapters. You would have to buy one that attaches to the tripod mount underneath the camera. I have one of these, and although not ideal it does work.
The Raynox DCR-250 comes with a spring-loaded grabber that lets it mount to thread sizes from 52mm to 67mm. Without the grabber it attaches to 43mm threads. And yes, it will let you focus much, much closer.
richardc7777
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ok, so if i want a material increase in PQ then S95 over SX210is isn;t going to work, perhaps the reality for a published book, i am going to need to bite the bullet and get an SLR, with gubbins...
H
harry
Guest
I am still not sure the kind of watch book you will be working on. Are you looking for the kind of image quality similar to those of Architectural Review? If not, or if your printed images would never be larger than 8x10, then going DSLR would really not getting you anything more than what you would have gotten by a good P&S.
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HLL7575
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HLL7575
Precisely, the S95 will give you nearly identical macro photos to what you can already get.
I wouldn't write off using a DCR-250. The macro performance increase really is dramatic compared to standard no-attachment shots. Another option is using a DSLR kit lens with a DCR-250 attached. This works as well.
A DSLR will mostly get you better flash options, better high-ISO performance, and better controls. For studio watch shots you don't really need any of these. The achievable level of detail is not greatly improved by going with a DSLR.
I've noticed Raynox has some new lenses other than the DCR-250 that will give you excellent magnification even without a long telephoto focal length. The MSN-202 shot on lensmateonline.com looks very promising:
; It was taken with a G12, which has only a moderate telephoto.
A lot of shots in my gallery were taken with the "ancient" Canon S2IS (5 megapixel superzoom) and a DCR-250: http://photo.net/photos/J1000
Example:
richardc777
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Imagine a coffee table book dedicated to watches, so full head on non macro shots inc bracelet on a watch stand and macro shots of dial details...
richardc777
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I also need non macro shots of the whole watch, Showing detail and little noise over a wider area than macro. Max shots in the book would be 8x 6 inches with many quarter page detail shots. Im not convinced for the non macro shots the sx210is is good enough from my results so far.
Why do people rave about S95 and LX5 and micro SLRs if they do not take better materially better shots than the SX210is at this size?
Why do people rave about S95 and LX5 and micro SLRs if they do not take better materially better shots than the SX210is at this size?
richardc777
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H
harry
Guest
OK, then. Have you thought about using the reverse lens macro technique to get THAT intimate close-up images? A DSLR setup with a affordable 50mm prime would achieve that effect for you. See the link:
http://www.digital-photography-school.com/reverse-mounting-your-prime-lenses-for-affordable-macro-photography
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HLL7575
http://www.digital-photography-school.com/reverse-mounting-your-prime-lenses-for-affordable-macro-photography
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HLL7575
Cedarhill
Senior Member
The larger the sensor, the better the low light performance. That is a big reason why DSLRs outperform premium point and shoots and why premium point and shoots outperform cameras like yours with a 1/2.5" sensor.
The thing is, in your situation, you don't care about low light performance because you can artificially supply whatever amount of light is required to get a good photo and you can also shoot very slow shutter speeds off a tripod. Your particular application is really not too demanding of a camera, with the exception of the macro requirement.
The thing is, in your situation, you don't care about low light performance because you can artificially supply whatever amount of light is required to get a good photo and you can also shoot very slow shutter speeds off a tripod. Your particular application is really not too demanding of a camera, with the exception of the macro requirement.
richardc777
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Right, so number one order a sturdy tripod, set up my diffused light area, maybe get a light box/tent and see what the sx210is can do, then go from there...
Great forum, great advice, i'm quite excited as already have a preorder of 300 units!
Cheers to all!
Great forum, great advice, i'm quite excited as already have a preorder of 300 units!
Cheers to all!
7enderbender
Leading Member
I've read most of the postings but I'm still not 100% sure where you are going with this.
Is this a professional project?
Is this a one time deal?
Do you want to get a better camera anyway to use for other things later anyway?
If the answer is YES to one of the first two questions you could to several things if high quality is a concern. How about renting an appropriate camera? How about buying some appropriate film equipment which these days can be bought cheaply - and will likely sell again without loss when your project is done. You could even go medium format with this which will give you nice results when getting large prints and you can even crop further as needed.
And: I think this type of photography can be quite challenging so it's good learning. You might also consider lighting issues and expect a good amount of post processing, which also requires some investment in equipment and software.
Just my thoughts.
Is this a professional project?
Is this a one time deal?
Do you want to get a better camera anyway to use for other things later anyway?
If the answer is YES to one of the first two questions you could to several things if high quality is a concern. How about renting an appropriate camera? How about buying some appropriate film equipment which these days can be bought cheaply - and will likely sell again without loss when your project is done. You could even go medium format with this which will give you nice results when getting large prints and you can even crop further as needed.
And: I think this type of photography can be quite challenging so it's good learning. You might also consider lighting issues and expect a good amount of post processing, which also requires some investment in equipment and software.
Just my thoughts.
What issues do you find with the photos so far? That might help us with the suggestions.
People rave about those cameras because they are really good at normal shooting (which is the highest priority for most people), and they are decent at taking shots of small things. They usually aren't trying to take extreme closeups of tiny objects as you are.
I can vouch for this as well. Works great.
Cedarhill
Senior Member
I think that is a wise strategy.
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