UV or UV?IR filter

[chocjellybean26]

Hey guys,

I'm about to get my first DSLR and am looking at UV filters. I know the whole story that some dont like it, whilst others want it for protection. Im for the protection.

Question is: I know that with stacking ND and grad ND filters, you can start to get a red/maroon tinge for most filters due to infared irrelevant that DSLRs have an infared blocker.

Also, with photos i.e. black cloth, they can come out brownish due to infared (or is this just with film, as the infared blocker is good enough now).

Is it better then to invest in a UV/IR filter instead of a normal UV filter?

Im planning to purchase Canon 60d with Tamron 17-50mm f2.8VC and Tamron 70-300 f4-5.6 VC. I'm unsure how good the Canon is in this circumstance.

 

[Leswick]

If you intend to protect the lens, than thin (clear) glass filter is just fine. The UV filt is totally useless in digital, however if you're serious about IR then a good one will cost over $100....and on top of that you need to make sure the lens/es are good for IR work. Not all of them are. Besides, I'm terrible w/PSE 8 and I was able to simulate IR with the software filters.

Leswick

 

[chocjellybean26]

Sorry, bit of confusion.

I'm not talking about IR filters, I'm talking about UV/IR cut filters:
http://maxsaver.net/BW-UV-IR-Cut-Filter.aspx

I know you can get clear protectors, yet like the idea of UV as well for the case of being near water ie the sea where the use of UV filters are applicable.

As i said, my main concern is that with stacking ND and grad NDs will the UV/IR cut filter be an extra benefit in reducing that infared glare, especially with 10 stop filters?

 

[chocjellybean26]

Also, one other thing. The UV/IR cut filters wouldnt alter your colouration into anything unnatural would it?

 

[Deleted1929]

By definition adding any_glass in front of your lens is going to alter the spectrum that the sensor sees. It would be impossible for this not to happen. UV filters typically affect the tail end of the blue end of the spectrum and IR filters, unsurprisingly, affect the tail end of the red end. But even clear filters will have some effect. It all adds up.

The only type of filter that will minimize this is a clear ND0 filter.

You need a UV or UV/IR filter like you need a hole in the head.

--
StephenG

 

[Barrie Davis]

You need a UV or UV/IR filter like you need a hole in the head.

You've gotta remember he's an Aussie. It's not a hole in the head that's his problem, it's a hole in the ozone layer. As a consequence, they are terrified of UV down there...

--(with some good reason, it has to be said)--

.... so he's probably got a deeply ingrained idea that "the only good UV, is a dead UV!" ;-)
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

 

[AnandaSim]

Question is: I know that with stacking ND and grad ND filters, you can start to get a red/maroon tinge for most filters due to infared irrelevant that DSLRs have an infared blocker.

Also, with photos i.e. black cloth, they can come out brownish due to infared (or is this just with film, as the infared blocker is good enough now).

Mate, we had a lot of people shooting on Sunday, the weekend past, with and without filters at the Sydney Road festival, Melbourne and I doubt anyone had experiences like that. Where are you getting this info or are you experiencing it how?

Im planning to purchase Canon 60d with Tamron 17-50mm f2.8VC and Tamron 70-300 f4-5.6 VC. I'm unsure how good the Canon is in this circumstance.

And a lot of the shooters were Canon shooters.



--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com
https://sites.google.com/site/asphotokb

'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little'

 

[Deleted1929]

Well just in case that's the issue I'd say that humans do need UV protection, but the camera will be fine.

The camera is in more danger from slat water and sand and perhaps from being left baking in the sun than it is from UV.

--
StephenG

 

[Graystar]

Your camera already has an IR filter. The sensor doesn’t respond to UV light, so it’s impossible for UV light to affect it. Those filters are unnecessary.

A lens hood will help prevent flare and is also very good protection for the lens. If protection is your primary concern then a hood is the best choice. A clear protective filter is necessary when environmental factors may damage your lens, such as sulfur from hot springs or salt from ocean spray. Otherwise, leave it off. All filters degrade the image so they should be used only when necessary.

.

 

[Mark B.]

Sorry, bit of confusion.

I'm not talking about IR filters, I'm talking about UV/IR cut filters:
http://maxsaver.net/BW-UV-IR-Cut-Filter.aspx

I know you can get clear protectors, yet like the idea of UV as well for the case of being near water ie the sea where the use of UV filters are applicable.

Not with a digital camera. The idea of using a clear filter to protect the front element in a salt air environment makes sense, but the previous suggestion that UV doesn't do anything for digital capture is essentially correct.

As i said, my main concern is that with stacking ND and grad NDs will the UV/IR cut filter be an extra benefit in reducing that infared glare, especially with 10 stop filters?

With that many pieces of glass in front of the lens all you're doing is increasing the chances to degrade overall IQ.

 

[chocjellybean26]

Firstly, I'm actually a she.

And the only reason why I ask is due to issues that I hear people get when they stack a ND with a grad ND.

Re:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/hitech_filters/discuss/72157622916490651/

" "Sometimes even Lee filters add a magenta cast when you combine them, especially the higher strengths. I'm not sure what happens but the light can be affected travelling through combinations of four or more stops of grad, it doesn't happen every time but be aware that it can. "

I sometimes get it when I stack up my 1.2 ND and a 0.6 or 0.9 grad, but mostly not. I guess it depends a lot on other light conditions etc."

http://www.flickr.com/groups/hitech_filters/discuss/72157624558065700/
"They said it was IR radiation causing the cast."

This is not just with Hitech filters, yet I'm looking to invest in the slotted filter system. And currently the UV/IR cut filter "sounds" logically like it may help reduce that.

Here is a B+W version of the UV/IR filter:
http://www.2filter.com/prices/B+W_filters/bw486filters.html

With that many pieces of glass in front of the lens all you're doing is increasing the chances to degrade overall IQ.

I know that's the case, but then what if you need say a ND and a ND grad for a sunset, or a circular polarizer with a reverse grad. Situations like that you may have to stack.

So do none of you guys ever have to stacks in these incidences? If you do, do you never gets color casts, especially with higher stops? If you do, can post production help in extreme color casts? Or would something like the UV/IR cut filter be an option too?

 

[Mako2011]

Different ND's will indeed have a color cast. The Hoya MC ND 400 for instance can impart a cool magenta/blue tone. The B+W ND3.0 will tend towards warm. One Way to affect the cast is to shoot raw then Change the WB there. You could also do that with a custom WB setting before the exposure. Stacking to effect the tone may be unnecessary but I'm not real familiar. Good Luck.

 

[Mako2011]

This thread may be of some help as they discuss using a gray card to determine the correct WB setting.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=490631

 

[AnandaSim]

Firstly, I'm actually a she.

Ah, now we have the "reveal". Not the gender, but the reasoning and intent behind a supposedly simple request. If we don't have the reasoning, we think it is a simple request or question - how are we to know there is a detailed motive behind such questions. Happens often in the Beginners forum.

" "Sometimes even Lee filters add a magenta cast when you combine them, especially the higher strengths. I'm not sure what happens but the light can be affected travelling through combinations of four or more stops of grad, it doesn't happen every time but be aware that it can. "

I am aware of my Cokin filters doing that, without stacking. So the higher priced Lee do it too?

http://www.flickr.com/groups/hitech_filters/discuss/72157624558065700/
"They said it was IR radiation causing the cast."

I'm not bothering to go reading there, but the key words are "they said". That's not like written in stone.

I know that's the case, but then what if you need say a ND and a ND grad for a sunset, or a circular polarizer with a reverse grad. Situations like that you may have to stack.

So do none of you guys ever have to stacks in these incidences? If you do, do you never gets color casts, especially with higher stops? If you do, can post production help in extreme color casts? Or would something like the UV/IR cut filter be an option too?

No, don't jump the gun.

• Responses to you have not been in the context of what you are revealing to us as what you intend to do.

• Yes pink colour casts can happen with one filter much less a stack.

• They may not be "extreme" - post processing can do wonders.

• Putting ONE MORE filter on top of the stack of two or three NDs is not something that is commonly occuring as a thought to the 20% of people who stack filters. And if you want to cut ir and uv, you gotta cut it BEFORE it hits the stack. Otherwise, the ir/uv has ALREADY turned the colour pink. So it has got to the the OUTSIDE filter. That's my logic.

--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com
https://sites.google.com/site/asphotokb

'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little'

 

[chocjellybean26]

sorry I thought I initially stated that I wanted help on the stacking:

Question is: I know that with stacking ND and grad ND filters, you can start to get a red/maroon tinge for most filters due to infared irrelevant that DSLRs have an infared blocker.

• Putting ONE MORE filter on top of the stack of two or three NDs is not something that is commonly occuring as a thought to the 20% of people who stack filters. And if you want to cut ir and uv, you gotta cut it BEFORE it hits the stack. Otherwise, the ir/uv has ALREADY turned the colour pink. So it has got to the the OUTSIDE filter. That's my logic.

I never thought of it that way.

Thanks Mako2011 and AnandaSim for the reasons why I would not need the filter and that post processing will help remove any color casting.

I'll try to make my question a bit simpler next time.

 

[AnandaSim]

I'll try to make my question a bit simpler next time.

Thanks for taking my advice to heart. Don't be afraid to ask complex questions but help us help the community by giving a preamble / background to the question so that responses can be more in context and clued in.

--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com
https://sites.google.com/site/asphotokb

'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little'