D700 matrix metering biased towards background?

[WildSammy]

Hello again

As you already know I'm quiet new to Nikon and found following behaviour of my D700's matrix meter. Before I had Pentax and I was very familiar with their matrix metering, but on D700 it behaves pretty different.

When I shoot for example portrait during dusk where the face on 80% to 90% of frame in viewfinder, but somewhere in the background is bright object for example frozen waterfall the matrix meter will expose the shot for the waterfall & resulting the face underexposed(yes I could lit the face with flash). I found I overall get better exposures with CWA.

This is only one example, but I'm getting with matrix meter mostly underexposed shots with exposure biased more to background or to bright objects in the frame and not to desired object which is creating most of the frame or the AF point is pointing at I'm using AF point nearest to subject which I want to have in focus so I don't need to recompose or do only minimal recomposing of the shot.

I want to ask if this is normal behaviour of D700's matrix metering? I would be more happy if the exposure will be more nailed towards object which is filling most of the frame

Thanks for answers
--
S.

 

[vividimages]

Place your focus point on the subject and use either spot or center. This will expose for the subject.

Hope that helps

 

[Eli S]

Matrix metering is very careful to not blow out any highlights, especially if you have Active D-lighting on. I usually add +1/3 or +2/3 comp. to keep images of people bright.

 

[bgbs]

If your subject, say, is in the shadow and the background is reflecting some very bright object, Matrix meter compensates for the whole scene. In these kind of situations you need to switch to spot meter....or as you said, take out your flash

 

[Kaj E]

The D700 is not a point and shoot. Read the manual and a basic book on photography.
--
Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

 

[thanhuy]

Hello again

As you already know I'm quiet new to Nikon and found following behaviour of my D700's matrix meter. Before I had Pentax and I was very familiar with their matrix metering, but on D700 it behaves pretty different.

How's different? How does your Pentax meter to similar scene? For me as usual, I compensate for front subject or use spot metering in this case. Matrix metering I believe it averages out the whole scene so that it won't blow out the bright area and keep dark area visible as much as it can. In the case of harsh back lighting as you describe spot metering or compensation need to be used or slower your shutter speed a bit.

When I shoot for example portrait during dusk where the face on 80% to 90% of frame in viewfinder, but somewhere in the background is bright object for example frozen waterfall the matrix meter will expose the shot for the waterfall & resulting the face underexposed(yes I could lit the face with flash). I found I overall get better exposures with CWA.

This is only one example, but I'm getting with matrix meter mostly underexposed shots with exposure biased more to background or to bright objects in the frame and not to desired object which is creating most of the frame or the AF point is pointing at I'm using AF point nearest to subject which I want to have in focus so I don't need to recompose or do only minimal recomposing of the shot.

I want to ask if this is normal behaviour of D700's matrix metering? I would be more happy if the exposure will be more nailed towards object which is filling most of the frame

Thanks for answers
--
S.

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

I think it's normal. Certainly way, way different from a D80 where you blow many highlights as the matrix metering biases exposure too much on the focus point.

You just need to be aware of what it's doing, which you are, and be prepared to adjust as needed. Or spot meter manually using the zone system, if you have time to adjust settings.

 

[WildSammy]

Hello again

As you already know I'm quiet new to Nikon and found following behaviour of my D700's matrix meter. Before I had Pentax and I was very familiar with their matrix metering, but on D700 it behaves pretty different.

How's different? How does your Pentax meter to similar scene? For me as usual, I compensate for front subject or use spot metering in this case. Matrix metering I believe it averages out the whole scene so that it won't blow out the bright area and keep dark area visible as much as it can. In the case of harsh back lighting as you describe spot metering or compensation need to be used or slower your shutter speed a bit.

Matrix metering on Pentax if set to default was biased towards centre of frame while keeping reading from the other segments. If set to link with AF point then matrix meter on Pentax was biased towards selected AF point. So for example when in centre or at selected AF point was darker object it allowed to clip highlights a bit while nailing exposure to the desired object(when link set) or object which filled most of the frame(when default). It could identify the back-lighting and compensate for that. Contrariwise if object was brighter it allowed to clip little bit of shadows while exposing the object right. So it was pretty predictable. When something was darker than 18% grey I need to compensate down(-) if highlights was badly clipping and when something was brighter then 18% grey I need to compensate up(+) if image was underexposed or shadows clipped. It's how metering works, but I have feeling that matrix meter on D700 is working different and didn't find this compensation technique to be applicable on it.. I'm getting unpredictable results from it and I find to be CWA more constant. Also when I'm shooting for example landscape during cloudy weather I'm getting unreasonably underexposed shots and need to compensate for example to +1EV or more and still without any clipping of highlights. I'm just trying to understand the magic behind the D700's matrix meter. Learn how it works because I want to be able to predict the results as I can on Pentax and to develop compensation method for Nikon style of metering I don't blame Nikon I like my D700 much, but still I'm not used to it as I was with my Pentax gear
--
S.

 

[Chromobotia Macracanthus]

Hello again

As you already know I'm quiet new to Nikon and found following behaviour of my D700's matrix meter. Before I had Pentax and I was very familiar with their matrix metering, but on D700 it behaves pretty different.

When I shoot for example portrait during dusk where the face on 80% to 90% of frame in viewfinder, but somewhere in the background is bright object for example frozen waterfall the matrix meter will expose the shot for the waterfall & resulting the face underexposed(yes I could lit the face with flash). I found I overall get better exposures with CWA.

This is only one example, but I'm getting with matrix meter mostly underexposed shots with exposure biased more to background or to bright objects in the frame and not to desired object which is creating most of the frame or the AF point is pointing at I'm using AF point nearest to subject which I want to have in focus so I don't need to recompose or do only minimal recomposing of the shot.

I want to ask if this is normal behaviour of D700's matrix metering? I would be more happy if the exposure will be more nailed towards object which is filling most of the frame

Thanks for answers
--
S.

This is the way ALL matrix metering works in most cameras. You need to read up more on what matrix metering is. You need to compensate for such situations.

 

[ColourBlind]

What a patronising response.

Over a long time I have learned NOT to trust Matrix, as, like the OP noted, sometimes all it takes is a small highlight in the background to make it throw a wobbly.

Because matrix refers to a database of images, I cannot possibly know what it is comparing the scene to, therefore it is potentially unpredictable in use.

It does do a decent job with TTL flash, but if the lighting is a bit dodgy, Matrix gets told to sod off and CW or Spot are used on manual.

 

[Kaj E]

What a patronising response.

Short and to the point.

Over a long time I have learned NOT to trust Matrix, as, like the OP noted, sometimes all it takes is a small highlight in the background to make it throw a wobbly.

Because matrix refers to a database of images, I cannot possibly know what it is comparing the scene to, therefore it is potentially unpredictable in use.

It does do a decent job with TTL flash, but if the lighting is a bit dodgy, Matrix gets told to sod off and CW or Spot are used on manual.

All of which you could have leaned by reading the manual and/or a basic photography book, instead of spending a "long time" to learn.

The D700 has three metering modes (which are further adjustable) which is not the case with a typical P&S. One needs to know how and when to use them. The manual can be helpful, but takes a little more effort than splurging off a question on a forum.

Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

 

[rondhamalam]

Hello again

As you already know I'm quiet new to Nikon and found following behaviour of my D700's matrix meter. Before I had Pentax and I was very familiar with their matrix metering, but on D700 it behaves pretty different.

When I shoot for example portrait during dusk where the face on 80% to 90% of frame in viewfinder, but somewhere in the background is bright object for example frozen waterfall the matrix meter will expose the shot for the waterfall & resulting the face underexposed(yes I could lit the face with flash). I found I overall get better exposures with CWA.

It is not the camera.
All camera matrix, evaluative, you name it, will do the same.

Try spot metering, and you will see the face (where the spot is) is always light in normal exposure.

 

[Leuf]

Hello again

As you already know I'm quiet new to Nikon and found following behaviour of my D700's matrix meter. Before I had Pentax and I was very familiar with their matrix metering, but on D700 it behaves pretty different.

When I shoot for example portrait during dusk where the face on 80% to 90% of frame in viewfinder, but somewhere in the background is bright object for example frozen waterfall the matrix meter will expose the shot for the waterfall & resulting the face underexposed(yes I could lit the face with flash). I found I overall get better exposures with CWA.

It is not the camera.
All camera matrix, evaluative, you name it, will do the same.

Try spot metering, and you will see the face (where the spot is) is always light in normal exposure.

The OP explicitly says that the Pentax matrix metering does things differently, and your response is that all matrix metering would do the same thing. I am coming from Pentax too and expect an adjustment to how the metering is going to work. But Pentax matrix metering doesn't take a "never blow highlights" approach, and I wouldn't expect any matrix metering to do that either - especially on a camera that is very good at recovering highlight detail.

 

[Robin Casady]

...I wouldn't expect any matrix metering to do that either - especially on a camera that is very good at recovering highlight detail.

And even better at recovering shadows. Nikon probably made their decision on how matrix metering would work on the basis of the camera's abilities. As someone said, matrix on a different model Nikon DSLR works differently.

What I don't understand is why someone would want to shoot a portrait with such bright highlights in the background? They are going to attract the viewer's eye because of their brightness and contrast--distracting from the portrait.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

 

[WildSammy]

The OP explicitly says that the Pentax matrix metering does things differently, and your response is that all matrix metering would do the same thing. I am coming from Pentax too and expect an adjustment to how the metering is going to work. But Pentax matrix metering doesn't take a "never blow highlights" approach, and I wouldn't expect any matrix metering to do that either - especially on a camera that is very good at recovering highlight detail.

Yes.. the Pentax matrix metering in default is biased to centre of the frame.. so when there is a darker object it will blow out the highlights and vice versa if there's a lighter object. It's something like CWA metering, but is reading exposure from the whole frame and trying to nail the exposure best for the whole frame, but with respect on object in centre. This can be also linked to selected AF point so matrix meter will try to nail exposure on the object around AF point, but looking also on the whole frame. When someone gets familiar with metering on other brand sometimes it's tricky to get on right with another brand and this is my case
--
S.

 

[WildSammy]

...I wouldn't expect any matrix metering to do that either - especially on a camera that is very good at recovering highlight detail.

And even better at recovering shadows. Nikon probably made their decision on how matrix metering would work on the basis of the camera's abilities. As someone said, matrix on a different model Nikon DSLR works differently.

What I don't understand is why someone would want to shoot a portrait with such bright highlights in the background? They are going to attract the viewer's eye because of their brightness and contrast--distracting from the portrait.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

That background was pretty much out-of-focus so that highlight wasn't so distracting and wasn't so bright too. It was shot during dusk with soft light coming from clouds. I found when in frame is some small "reflective" object then matrix would underexpose too. So as was said already here it's preventing to blown highlights. I like to shoot ETTR(expose to the right) and the turning exposure down in RAW converter. It's good way to minimise noise and there's always +(-)1EV room with D700.
--
S.

 

[Robin Casady]

That background was pretty much out-of-focus so that highlight wasn't so distracting and wasn't so bright too. It was shot during dusk with soft light coming from clouds. I found when in frame is some small "reflective" object then matrix would underexpose too. So as was said already here it's preventing to blown highlights. I like to shoot ETTR(expose to the right) and the turning exposure down in RAW converter. It's good way to minimise noise and there's always +(-)1EV room with D700.

Posting an example or two might help.

I shoot with manual exposure, and UniWB to evaluate the R, G, and B histograms because you can blow one channel without knowing it when using normal WB. I don't expect an automatic exposure system to get it right in all situations.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

 

[Robin Casady]

When someone gets familiar with metering on other brand sometimes it's tricky to get on right with another brand and this is my case

Or even a different model from the same brand.
--
Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html

 

[Bill Wallace]

I have done some reading on uniwb and I still don't quite understand it. It also seems to me very complicated to set up?

Why is this different than shooting a grey card or white card and setting wb from that? Then you ettr and set wb in post?

Always looking to learn something...

Tia,

Bill

--
Bill Wallace

http://bwallace.zenfolio.com/

"I'd rather laugh with the Sinners than cry with the Saints"

 

[HiRez]

Place your focus point on the subject and use either spot or center. This will expose for the subject.

Yeah, I couldn't get matrix metering to be predictable for me, so I never use it. I use center weighted almost all the time (by the way you can change the size of the center weighted zone in the menus). This mode still uses the matrix for the full frame but it's more predictable because you choose the general point of importance. Occasionally I will use spot for something finicky. If my subject is off-center, I meter it and lock with the AE Lock button, which works great, but you have to remember to unlock it when you change to a different scene.