SX30 - Birds in Trees part 2: Sometimes there's a twig...

kenn threed

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Hi all,

We're back with another batch of SX30 birds shot in various trees around the yard.

Photographing birds in trees nearly always presents a variety of extra challenges. There's focusing of course, with the camera often struggling to lock onto your intended target instead of any number of other elements in the frame. There's lighting, with frequent shadows and hotspots which can make exposures tricky at times. There's distance, as at least in our case most of the potential tree perches are further up and away than the staged ones we have placed around our feeders and near the deck. And in very many cases there are obstacles to that "in the clear" shot which lets us capture the whole bird...
But we just say, "sometimes there's a twig"... and take the shot anyway.

Bully Robin:



A (female) House Finch:



Dark-eyed Junco:



Northern Cardinal (male) :



Yellow-bellied Sapsucker (female) :



Red-bellied Woodpeckers (mating pair) :



Eastern Bluebird (male) :



Bluejay:



All these challenges to shooting birds in trees make it harder for us (and our cameras) to get the kind of well-lit highly detailed photos we want. And we miss a lot of great shots for all these reasons that's for sure. But we manage to keep some too, and we hope you enjoy them.

Kenn

--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
 
Kenn, your birds images are outstanding! Thank you very much for sharing them with us. Actually, you images played a great role in convincing me to get a SX30.

All the SX30 bashers out there should look at your pictures first, and redirect all the issues to the one behind the camera.

I've never been a birder, but after seeing your images, I think of buying some bird seed, throw in my backyard and hide somewhere with the camera:)
 
Those look Fantastic Kenn!...You sure are having fun... Got to love the birdies... (-:





Any criticism is Welcome so please add your thoughts I'm always learning..And as always thanks for looking...(:

H2- Bridget
H5- Jeff
 
Hi Kenn

Thanks a lot for posting these wonderful shots of birds,you are lucky that see all of these beautiful birds around you.About two month ago i bought SX 30 IS,believe me its birds shots i have taken at end zoom 840 mm are really much much better than those birds shots i have taken with my 20 D and Sigma 50-500 mm !! , i am really very glad that got this lovely SX 30 IS,thanks again,best regards,Mo. :)
--
mbkamrani
 
Kenn, your birds images are outstanding! Thank you very much for sharing them with us. Actually, you images played a great role in convincing me to get a SX30.

All the SX30 bashers out there should look at your pictures first, and redirect all the issues to the one behind the camera.

I've never been a birder, but after seeing your images, I think of buying some bird seed, throw in my backyard and hide somewhere with the camera:)
I guess I am a "basher" due to the fact I post honest and balanced information and correct those that don't. It's just not realistic to expect people to pander to those who can't face facts. The SX30 has mutiple issues, people who buy it not knowing this often are very unhappy and many return it. Those who walked into the purchase (like me) knowing them end up getting what they expect.

Sure, you can spend hours editing pics to make them acceptable but not everyone wants to buy something where they NEED to do this.

The results from his pics are editing mostly and "tame/static" subjects as well. After that we are talking about skill.

I am very happy with what I have and what I can do with mine. I certainly don't spend hours editing picture either. If I had to do that I would have bought the wrong camera for my needs. Most people feel the same.

I know when I take my SX30 out of specific roles the performance suffers quite a lot.

If as an example I try to shoot our small native birds the results are quite poor. These are small and FAST little things. They don't sit and pose for you.

getting one in 30 shots is doing well. With the SX30's "lag" and slow frame to frame rates you really do feel the issues you and others want to ignore.

Another example was taking a picture of an Emu drinking from a puddle the other day. I pressed the shutter when he was in the puddle. The shot shows his head 6-8 inches above it. It's a nice shot but it shows the lag many can't face up to.

I accept the issues and like my SX30. I know what it can and can't do. In an effort to help stop the "I took it back" threads seen mutiple times with the SX30 I post honest information when needed. If you think it's better to fool people into thinking it has no issues, that to get the results you worship can be done without a lot of editing or that it does perform really well in all enviroments then there is little that can be said to help you. Just don't attack those of us who want people to like the SX30 for what it is and not for what people fool themselves into thinking it is.
 
Kenn,

I'd like to know what settings you use for the Auto focus on your SX 30. In particular
AF Fram
AF Point Zoom
Servo AF
Continuous Af
Spot AE Point
ISMode
Display Area

Do your settings change for perching or in flight birds.
Or for other reasons.

I just got an SX 30 yesterday and am trying to figure out the best settings for long range telephoto shots.

Thanks,

John



 
Kenn, your birds images are outstanding! Thank you very much for sharing them with us. Actually, you images played a great role in convincing me to get a SX30.

All the SX30 bashers out there should look at your pictures first, and redirect all the issues to the one behind the camera.

I've never been a birder, but after seeing your images, I think of buying some bird seed, throw in my backyard and hide somewhere with the camera:)
I guess I am a "basher" due to the fact I post honest and balanced information and correct those that don't. It's just not realistic to expect people to pander to those who can't face facts. The SX30 has mutiple issues, people who buy it not knowing this often are very unhappy and many return it. Those who walked into the purchase (like me) knowing them end up getting what they expect.

Sure, you can spend hours editing pics to make them acceptable but not everyone wants to buy something where they NEED to do this.

The results from his pics are editing mostly and "tame/static" subjects as well. After that we are talking about skill.

I am very happy with what I have and what I can do with mine. I certainly don't spend hours editing picture either. If I had to do that I would have bought the wrong camera for my needs. Most people feel the same.

I know when I take my SX30 out of specific roles the performance suffers quite a lot.

If as an example I try to shoot our small native birds the results are quite poor. These are small and FAST little things. They don't sit and pose for you.

getting one in 30 shots is doing well. With the SX30's "lag" and slow frame to frame rates you really do feel the issues you and others want to ignore.

Another example was taking a picture of an Emu drinking from a puddle the other day. I pressed the shutter when he was in the puddle. The shot shows his head 6-8 inches above it. It's a nice shot but it shows the lag many can't face up to.

I accept the issues and like my SX30. I know what it can and can't do. In an effort to help stop the "I took it back" threads seen mutiple times with the SX30 I post honest information when needed. If you think it's better to fool people into thinking it has no issues, that to get the results you worship can be done without a lot of editing or that it does perform really well in all enviroments then there is little that can be said to help you. Just don't attack those of us who want people to like the SX30 for what it is and not for what people fool themselves into thinking it is.
I guess we are moving off-topic here, but I just want to clear all the misunderstandings. Actually, I don't think you are a "basher", since you keep and like your SX30, knowing all it's pros and cons. I'm on the same side here and I agree with what you've said in your post. What I meant was that there are some people who are very quick to put a "no good" label on the SX30 based on their first impressions of the right out-of-camera images.

Any camera, even $30K Hasselblad have their issues, and of course, SX30 has them. But it also has many potentials, and Kenn's birds pictures are perfect example of it. Of course, this is not the best camera for snapping, resizing and posting on the Facebook. It can be done with an $80 Vivitar soapbox. But knowing SX30's potentials and limits, with the right PP, one can achieve a very good results, like Kenn does.

I don't attack anyone, and not trying to fool anybody that SX30 has no issues. That would've been just silly. I just don't like when people give their final verdict on the camera based on the first look, or, even without understanding the subject at all. And, after all, everybody have their own taste.

I, personally, PP all my images whether they are taken with a P/S camera or with the Canon DSLR with L lens. And i think SX30 images hold PP very good and, again, Kenn's pictures are very good example of it.
 
Hi John,

With regard to our AF settings...

AF Frame - We are currently using the small frame for near shots, and the larger one for distant shots. But the difference is minimal I think.
AF Point Zoom - off
Servo AF - off
Continuous Af - on

Spot AE Point - We don't use auto-exposures, but we do use Spot Metering only as a guide to set exposures in Manual Mode
ISMode - continuous
Display Area - We don't use the Frame Assist function

Your Pelican shot looks good btw... nice color and exposure. I presume this was a fairly distant shot, but it seems the camera did a pretty good job with the focus.

hope this helps,

Kenn

--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
 
Kenn - I can better relate to these for my own shooting situation ... but mine are never as good!

You post great birder eye candy, information, and inspiration. Ugh! Now to pick a favorite. The woodpecker pair is beautiful and I bet it's tough to get them both in the frame together so that scores high. The cardinal with the color matched berries is wonderful. Boy, you make it tough! I kind of like the pale tones of the female house finch. I alway want to pump up their feather color and contrast. Your subtle tones go well with the blue background. The bluebird ... I just want to cuddle that cutie. Welp, it's tough, but it's gotta be the BOLD and bully robin! Super sharp and a very dignified expression. Striking sharpness and color separates it from the busy background. My only problem with it is a strong desire to grab it and clone out that doggone branch above it's beak.

Great set. Thanks for posting!

Mark
--

 
AJSAUco - Is it your calling to protect un-suspecting camera shoppers from buying a camera not suitable for their needs? You seem to imply there are sneaky people in our forum that hide SX30 defects using posed shots and post processing. What's so wrong with post processing. I'd think a intelligent techno savvy guy like you would embrace computer power to help improve images.

Kenn uses his SX30 and skills and talent to produce exceptional images that grab attention. He has been very open and helpful supplying information on how he takes and processes his shots. I have also posted animated GIF before/after post processing SX30 shots that are not meant to hide camera faults, but to show those interested what the camera and post processing can do.

All I've seen from you is talk. Much with a "basher" feel to it. Why? You bought five batteries for your SX30 and you promote CHDK and say you take lots of photographs. You say you know the strengths and weaknesses of the SX30. You say a LOT, but show nothing. How about providing us some visual proof you know what you talk about. Show me some photos where you have taken good advantage the SX30. I'd like to see your shot of the emu and wonder if you would admit to not anticipating the animals movement and not thinking to use continuous mode for a series of shots that might capture interesting behavior. How about something positive for a change? Let's see your good stuff!

Mark
--

 
Kenn - I can better relate to these for my own shooting situation ... but mine are never as good!

You post great birder eye candy, information, and inspiration. Ugh! Now to pick a favorite. The woodpecker pair is beautiful and I bet it's tough to get them both in the frame together so that scores high. The cardinal with the color matched berries is wonderful. Boy, you make it tough! I kind of like the pale tones of the female house finch. I alway want to pump up their feather color and contrast. Your subtle tones go well with the blue background. The bluebird ... I just want to cuddle that cutie. Welp, it's tough, but it's gotta be the BOLD and bully robin! Super sharp and a very dignified expression. Striking sharpness and color separates it from the busy background. My only problem with it is a strong desire to grab it and clone out that doggone branch above it's beak.

Great set. Thanks for posting!

Mark
Hi Mark, and thanks for your always encouraging and insightful comments.

Bully is a proud handsome bird indeed, and we do love him, (even tho we must chase him off the worm dish constantly to keep him from eating them all). We give him a lot of raisins especially during the winter, and he stays with us year-round even when most of the other Robins leave.

As regards the busy branches in this shot... I was actually more annoyed by the little one in the lower left which reaches back thru the focal plane partially obscuring his right foot and wing. But as I said in the title of this post, ...sometimes there's a twig.

Anyway your point is well-taken and so I took a few minutes this morning to clear that oof one behind his head. I probably could have done a better job, and maybe I'll eventually get around to making that edit well enuf to replace the original effort in the gallery.

Meanwhile, this one's for you. :)



Thanks again,

Kenn

--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
 
I just love it when Kenn posts more of his bird photos! I also got a couple bird feeders and plan to set up some posing branches near them hoping I can get a few nice pictures of my local birds in Morgan Hill, CA.

Thanks Kenn! You inspire me to try harder (or smarter?) taking my pictures.

Bob
--
Bob
 
AJSAUco - Is it your calling to protect un-suspecting camera shoppers from buying a camera not suitable for their needs?
I feel having a accurate opinion based on facts and presenting balanced information to be most helpful. I don't feel we need to hide or pretend there are no issues.
Many do.
You seem to imply there are sneaky people in our forum that hide SX30 defects using posed shots and post processing.
No, what I am saying is the following. I can name mutiple people who are running around in just about every thread involving the SX30 and posting information which is simply not true. They have the information to show this, they have had it pointed out factually. What would you call this?
What's so wrong with post processing. I'd think a intelligent techno savvy guy like you would embrace computer power to help improve images.
Nothing IF you enjoy it. I do it when I need to but if I felt I had to spend significant time on every shot I would have bought the wrong camera.

People are taking the much processed images of subjects in specific situations which ideally suit the camera and do not expose the issues and using this to tell everyone just how good the camera is. The OP makes it clear he processes images.
Those using them to support the SX30 being just about perfect do not.

Funny enough, where I think the SX 30 shines is portraits. I really find the results to be very, very nice.
Kenn uses his SX30 and skills and talent to produce exceptional images that grab attention. He has been very open and helpful supplying information on how he takes and processes his shots. I have also posted animated GIF before/after post processing SX30 shots that are not meant to hide camera faults, but to show those interested what the camera and post processing can do.
For sure. Do you not notice those going around in the thread using that to mislead people the shots are straight out of the camera or they can expect those results without working on the images?
All I've seen from you is talk. Much with a "basher" feel to it. Why?
As above. There are guys on here misleading people. You don't have an issue with this but you have an issue with someone trying to shine some light on what they really can expect? Don't we often see "Oh well, if YOU can take shots like this with the SX30 it's because you don't know what you are doing"? I know I have see this sort of comment many times and it's often not true. I know I can replicate many of the images using CHDK motion capture. It's not my thing though. I don't enjoy it. I enjoy walking, being out and about and hunting for shots. If people want a camera for specific static situations then what is being done really does show how good it can be in THOSE situations. Have you seen any posts where people want it for this and this only? We need balance.
You bought five batteries for your SX30 and you promote CHDK and say you take lots of photographs. You say you know the strengths and weaknesses of the SX30. You say a LOT, but show nothing. How about providing us some visual proof you know what you talk about. Show me some photos where you have taken good advantage the SX30. I'd like to see your shot of the emu and wonder if you would admit to not anticipating the animals movement and not thinking to use continuous mode for a series of shots that might capture interesting behavior. How about something positive for a change? Let's see your good stuff!
I am a very private person for good reason. If you find any technical issues with my comments, if they are technically inaccurate then show me. Put up or shut up does not show if my comments are accurate. It shows if YOU like my shots. Is this relevant to a technical discussion? Not at all. I am sure to post something at some stage. RAW VS jpg is something we need put up when I get around to it. I am hoping a friend will let me put some pics of her up as well.

On the issue of technical accuracy, how on earth would continuous help me on the SX30? It's simply far too slow. I took mutiple shots, due to the lag and slow speed some of those were missed. I cannot anticipate when an animal would stop drinking. Animal has it's head in a puddle, take shot, animal moves missing shot.

You will notice I have made comments about static or staged subject. Once we move out of fixed enviroments it's much, much harder and we start to see how things really perform.

My friend who is currently staying here is being encouraged to use my SX30 as much as possible. I'm pushing her to find the issues with it and use it. I think it would be a good tool for her battery of camera's but first she needs to know what it can't do to make sure she will be happy with it :) That's what I do in my posts.
 
Perfect pics as always
Regards
Renato

 
Hi all,

Thanks again for the many nice comments. We love to share our birds.

I'd like to just make a few comments here regarding the SX30, processing, and about photographing wild birds in general, ...in the spirit of helpfulness.

Wild bird photography is challenging for any camera and all photographers who attempt to do it. It requires patience, practice (skill), a good camera, and a bit of luck, All the best wildlife photos you will see here or anywhere, are the result of some combination of all of these things. You can't just buy a camera or lens that makes it easy. And those who attempt it occasionally or casually, will likely find it very difficult indeed, no matter which camera they use.

Perhaps the major key to success is getting close enuf to take a shot at all. How close varies with the reach of the lens being used of course. But you will likely hear it said that no lens is ever long enuf, and bird photographers employ a lot of different tactics and techniques to try and bridge that critical distance. Many use camoflage and/or stealth, birdcalls, or even bait. But millions of us simply put up feeders and water features around our property and give the birds an attractive habitat in which to live. And they come to us.

I want to assure everyone that all our birds are wild and free, not captive in any way... their only cage is the sky. And they are sure as small and fast as any wild birds you may find wherever you live. No matter which gear we might use to photograph them we would and do miss many shots because of this. But they live here, in our trees. And we spend a great deal of time outside with them. As a result they are somewhat accustomed to our being in their midst. So we do have the advantage of many opportunities, and also considerable experience from years of practice photographing them. All of which has improved our success.

A few words about processing...

I would say again, that ALL digital photos are processed. In my opinion, "heavy processing" fairly describes what's done by most cameras during the writing of the jpeg image that users call sooc. As I've said many times, we "dial back" the settings for this in-camera processing, specifically to avoid such "heavy processing". And as I've tried to say and illustrate in several earlier posts, we recommend and use the most subtle and careful post-processing of these detuned jpeg images to try to achieve the highest and most natural image quality possible from our cameras.

Yes, I process all our posted images. But, the processing I do is generally "lighter" and less injurious to the images we capture than the processing done by the camera's default jpeg algorithms. And it's certainly lighter and less injurious than turning up the in-camera processing would be.

Perhaps more importantly tho, the processing I do is based on the specific characteristics of each individual image. In-camera processing is blind, and applies its default routines as if every image were the same... It has no awareness of whether any captured image is sharp or soft, or over-exposed or under-exposed... or any other aspect of it. It sharpens, applies contrast, and performs color correction without regard to the color or quality of light, the complexity of the scene, or even which elements in the image are subject or background. There's little chance that default processing will optimize any given image, and any such preset method universally applied is very likely to harm an image at least as often as it helps one.

Here again is another illustration:



The left pane is the detuned jpeg as produced "sooc" by the SX30. It is a little bit soft, has a yellowish cast from the morning sun, and is somewhat lacking in contrast. But the detail is intact. The right pane is the image carefully processed to adjust WB slightly, reduce bg noise, and apply sharpening and contrast to enhance the details in the subject without over-processing. This is not heavy processing and it did not take long to do. Indeed, some might find the unprocessed image quite acceptable, and the in-camera defaults may even produce quite good results sometimes. The primary difference is that I can see the image being processed and make (or not make) adjustments intelligently as needed, whereas the camera simply applies the same routine to every image, and to the entire image, no matter what. I prefer to optimize the processing of each image myself rather than depending on the camera to "get it right", and I'm confident this will nearly always result in better images than are rendered sooc.

And as regards SX30 "issues" ...

The SX30 does an excellent job capturing detail. It's reach is pretty much unsurpassed at any price. Its image stabilization is excellent. And for the record, it's shutter lag and shot to shot speeds, while sure not fast, are about average for current cameras in its class. But to get the best results with it (or any camera really) requires understanding its strengths and weaknesses, and developing your skills to control it in whichever photographic application you need it to perform. For us, that's bird photography... and we're very pleased indeed with the results it's giving us.

Is the SX-30 the perfect birding camera? ... No.

Do we often wish it were faster? ... Yes.

Do any other cameras offer superior features, performance, or image quality? ... Ye$ .

Can it be used to take excellent photos of wild birds? ... Yes .

Will you get excellent photos of wild birds with an SX30? ... Maybe not. You'll surely still need patience, skill, and luck. But you will have a pretty good camera for it.

As always, I hope this might be helpful to some, and wish good shooting to you all.

Kenn

--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
 
Hi Kenn, thanks for all the help with the sx30! Question though, why do you turn the servo off, thanks again!
 
Hi Kenn, thanks for all the help with the sx30! Question though, why do you turn the servo off, thanks again!
Hi rdsatkaycee,

Thanks for asking this question.

I had assumed that continuous refocusing while shooting would both slow the shot to shot speed (as it significantly does on our Sx-IS cams), and also risk misfocusing on continuous shots. But I just did a quick test and it seems to have no effect on shot to shot speed at all! Not sure yet how reliable the continuous shooting AF will be... We're in the habit of locking focus (with half-press) and relying on that for continuous shots as long as our subject stays in frame. I'll be doing more extensive testing on this and report back if I find there are any disadvantages, but it would appear that Servo AF- On may indeed become a preferred setting for us. :)
Thanks again and good shooting,

Kenn

--
Kenn & Temple - Backyard Birders in St.Louis, MO USA
http://kenn3d.smugmug.com
 

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