Red River ICC profiles & accuracy?

[ken henke]

Recently purchased the sample pack from Red River Paper to compare with Ilford Gold Fibre and Epson papers with a luster finish. Using the Epson 3880 printer, I noticed the Red River papers tend to have a bit more red than either the Ilford or Epson paper. This was quite apparent with a photo that had a lot of blue sky. On all papers I was using the canned ICC profile supplied by the manufacturer. As one would suspect, the Epson premium luster was a very good match. The Ilford canned ICC profile was a close second.

Just curious if others have noted this as well? Obviously, if need be, I could get a custom profile for the RR papers, but I was trying to avoid that cost.
Ken

 

[Vernon D Rainwater]

Recently purchased the sample pack from Red River Paper to compare with Ilford Gold Fibre and Epson papers with a luster finish. Using the Epson 3880 printer, I noticed the Red River papers tend to have a bit more red than either the Ilford or Epson paper. This was quite apparent with a photo that had a lot of blue sky. On all papers I was using the canned ICC profile supplied by the manufacturer. As one would suspect, the Epson premium luster was a very good match. The Ilford canned ICC profile was a close second.

Just curious if others have noted this as well? Obviously, if need be, I could get a custom profile for the RR papers, but I was trying to avoid that cost.
Ken

I just received my (RR) Red River Paper order (including the Pigment sample pack) and have not had time to run a print test with several of the paper types. However, I have printed samples as well as some 8x10 and 17x25 on the (RR) 60 lb Polar Matte DOUBLE SIDED. I tested both with and without the RR profile.

I used the Epson 3880 and Qimage as the printing software. Qimage has a choice to select "Let Printer/Driver Manage Color" and this choice produced printed Photos with no noticeable color changes from when using the Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Matte Paper. Of course, Paper choice was for this paper (as indicated to use by Red River paper Insert information).

The Printing Profile (in Qimage) when selecting "Let Printer/Driver Manage Color" is pRGB.icm and using this choice produces great results.

I use Qimage for all Photo Printing, however; if I should (for example) use Photoshop for photo printing, this Profile could be used by placing it in the proper folder with the other printer Profiles.

Based on my limited example results, I see not specific need to test this Paper Type further with the (RR) 3880 Profile.

Further testing, using the other (RR) Paper Types will be interesting and may provide more insight regarding the profiles.
--
Vernon...

 

[ken henke]

As a follow up since I posted, my original observations was with RR Arctic Polar Satin. After printing with RR Arctic Luster, the canned ICC profile is a very close match. Interesting. In fact, it is a shade better than the Epson luster profile. I am somewhat surprised there would be much of a difference between RR Arctic Polar Satin and Luster. Also observed that the RR Ultra Pro Satin is quite close to the Arctic Polar Luster, with just a bit less saturation.

Give my latest results, it may be good enough not to require a custom profile, in fact.
FYI, even though I have a Mac, I am printing with Qimage.

 

[irvweiner]

I gather you are using the Parallels prgm to run Qimage on the Mac. I'm a PC user and have been suggesting this mode to Mac users, but rcvd no feedback.

Can you confirm if this works or indicate how you have succeeded to run Qimage on the Mac?

I have also run several RR papers (luster & satin)on my 3880 using the RR profiles and got good results. I then created a few profiles with my colormunki a saw some moderate improvements--I expected this, I'm using my printer-ink-paper as opposed to their profile in my printer.

irv weiner

 

[ken henke]

I am using Fusion VMWare and it works quite well. In fact, Windows itself runs better on a Mac than on Windows built machine. Go figure. I was willing to actually load windows on a Mac just for Qimage. I have that much respect for that program. I have had Qimage for many many years. As I have said in many posts, for printing, I don't think anything has ever compared to it !

Thanks much for your comment on the RR paper profiles. Just not sure yet if I want to spend the funds for good print calibration device. However, it would open up many more possibilities. I was encouraged to hear of your positive result.

 

[Stuart20831]

I use an older (cheap) pc to run the printer via Qimage. drag the image to the pc over an cat 5 or put it on a thumb drive, etc. this allows the printer to spool and print without tying up the 'good' computer (pc or mac).

I use Qimage to print everything, thus no variables at all from different softwares.
Stuart

 

[MaxB1]

--
Paul

http://www.pbase.com/spdavis/a_few_nifty_galleries

 

[E Dinkla]

As a follow up since I posted, my original observations was with RR Arctic Polar Satin. After printing with RR Arctic Luster, the canned ICC profile is a very close match. Interesting. In fact, it is a shade better than the Epson luster profile. I am somewhat surprised there would be much of a difference between RR Arctic Polar Satin and Luster. Also observed that the RR Ultra Pro Satin is quite close to the Arctic Polar Luster, with just a bit less saturation.

I think if you can use the canned profile for RR Artic Luster, you can also use it for the the Arctic Polar Satin, both haveidentical high FBA content, both will act the same for the same illumination. The Ultra Pro Satin is another paper base though with less FBA and so warmer in light with a UV component.

--
Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

 

[FaciaBrut]

Ken, are you using the recommended media type setting from Red River?
--
Chas

 

[plantdoc]

I seem to have problems with the Red River profiles for my Epson R280 Photo printer. I am letting Photoshop control the color, and I believe I have all the settings correct in PS CS3 and the printer driver. The prints are somewhat darker and the skin tones are reddish. However, if I use the appropriate Epson profiles for CS3 and the printer driver, the results are very good using Premium Matt and Polar Satin. Somewhat baffled why the Red River profiles are producing "off" results compared to the Epson paper profiles. Perhaps, I'll contact Red River.

Greg

 

[Julian Vrieslander]

Recently purchased the sample pack from Red River Paper to compare with Ilford Gold Fibre and Epson papers with a luster finish. Using the Epson 3880 printer, I noticed the Red River papers tend to have a bit more red than either the Ilford or Epson paper. This was quite apparent with a photo that had a lot of blue sky.

I too recently ran some tests on the Red River sample pack, printing from a 3880. But I may be seeing different results than what you describe. When I compare RR Arctic Polar Luster to Epson Premium Luster, the RR paper tends to shift reds more toward orange than the Epson paper. The RR paper has more saturation in blue skies, where the Epson paper shifts a bit toward cyan. Looking at gradient test strips of the CMY primaries, the Epson is more saturated than the RR.

For these comparisons, I used the Printer Evaluation Image from the Outback Photo site

http://www.outbackprint.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html

printing out of Photoshop CS5, with manufacturers' profiles and suggested settings, perceptual rendering intent, Epson ink. Prints were viewed under a 3500K 50W Solux bulb. Note that the Epson paper is warmer than the RR (less optical brighteners?) so that might account for some of the differences.

For the 3880 my favorite paper is still Epson's Exhibition Fiber. But it's expensive, and does not come in 17x25 cut sheets.

 

[E Dinkla]

printing out of Photoshop CS5, with manufacturers' profiles and suggested settings, perceptual rendering intent, Epson ink. Prints were viewed under a 3500K 50W Solux bulb. Note that the Epson paper is warmer than the RR (less optical brighteners?) so that might account for some of the differences.

This Red River paper has much more FBA content than the Epson. The respective b values are -9.8 and -2.9. The papers really loaded with FBA score near b -11

Manufacturers profiles must have been made for D50 so the 3500K is at the warm side too for that profile. Solux lamps do not emitt much UV if their spectral plots are correct. Depending on the light level (lower = better then) the 3500K could be acceptable illumination despite the shift from D50.

New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

--
Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/