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softbov vs PLM

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arankamature

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I am wondering about using a Silver PLM umbrella with a diffuser instead of a softbox. It's seems this setup would be have it's advantages. Has anyone compared the two.
 
arankamature said:
I am wondering about using a Silver PLM umbrella with a diffuser instead of a softbox. It's seems this setup would be have it's advantages. Has anyone compared the two.
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Yup, I've compared the 86 inch PLM to my Chimera 36x48 inch "Super Pro"...

Here's what I like about the softbox.
  • The softbox takes a grid, the PLM doesn't.
  • The softbox gives rectangular catchlight, which I generally prefer.
  • The softbox can point to just about any angle from straight up to about 45 degrees downward. It goes downward enough for high light, like butterfly light. The PLM cannot point up more than 20 degrees.
  • The softbox is uninterrupted, there's a black dot in the center of PLM catchlights. Seldom visible unless you're really close to the subject.
  • You adjust the angle of the light from behind the light.
  • The softbox has a useful adjustment range when hanging upside down on a Sky Trax with a pantograph (that scissors contraption). The PLM cannot point downward, at all, on a Sky Trax. If you have a Sky Trax, I'd seriously avoid the PLM.
  • The soft box is much better behaved on my boom. The PLM can't maneuver with the boom lower than level, so lowering the light means leveling the boom and fighting the stand lower.
Here's what I like about the PLM.
  • The PLM with a sock probably has a stop more power than the box.
  • The PLM has almost twice the area of the softbox, so it's softer. And it's basically round, so the shadows are prettier. Sometimes, you can see the rectangular light source in shadows cast by a softbox.
  • The PLM is a joy for smaller studios or location shoots. The big part is behind the center of the stand, so it goes almost to the wall. The softbox protrudes past the center of the stand, into the working area. (yeah, people say it's "huge". They're coming from 44 inch umbrellas that are less than 3 foot in diameter when deployed. I'm comparing it to a 4 foot softbox).
  • the PLM may not be able to point up more than 20 degrees, but it can point straight down, which is very useful. (You can get an extra gadget called a "baby boom" that lets you point the PLM up more if necessary).
  • On a big stand, the PLM is surprisingly stable. The center of gravity of light + PLM is pretty much over the center of the stand. The softbox center of gravity is much farther forward, it wants to fall easier.
  • The PLM is cost effective. With sock, it's about $100, the 48 inch Chimera Super Pro is about $300. Granted, that's not apples to apples. A Paul Buff 30x60 folding softbox is $160.
And here's one that I don't know if it's a like or dislike.
  • The PLM puts your light controls facing the subject. The softbox puts your light controls facing the studio. My lights are run by a Cyber Commander remote, so I don't give a whiffy where the controls are. But if I didn't have the remote, say I was using Elinchroms, the PLM would make "main setup" easier, with me at the subject location metering, then walking a few steps to the light to adjust power. But if I later wanted to tweak lights, the ratio wasn't looking good in preview so I want to drop fill half a stop, that's easier to do with a softbox, a few steps from camera to light.
One comment. The PLM goes up in about 3 minutes, easily. My softbox isn't one of those new folding types, and is a 10 minute struggle. Again, if I were doing apples to apples, I could get a folding softbox.

wizfaq PLM

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Thank you very much Joseph S Wisniewski.

Your comments were well thought out and very helpful.

I doubt I can buy a PLM here in Thailand, but you never know. I'm shopping for new lights now and I'll certainly keep the PLM in mind when deciding on which lights to buy.
 
Sailor Blue said:
Thank you very much Joseph S Wisniewski.
Click to expand...
You're welcome, Sailor Blue. Give my regards to the rest of the scouts.
Sailor Blue said:
Your comments were well thought out and very helpful.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I try.
Sailor Blue said:
I doubt I can buy a PLM here in Thailand, but you never know. I'm shopping for new lights now and I'll certainly keep the PLM in mind when deciding on which lights to buy.
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If you can't get one, there are several products that are similar that have better worldwide ability. You might look into the Photek Softliter II. It's not quite the equal of the PLM (PLM mounts centered on a speedring for White Lightning, Alien Bees, Einstein, and Elinchrom lights, Softliter is a bit off center on an umbrella shaft, and it's 10 ribs against PLM's 16) but it has most of the PLM's favorable characteristics. Definitely worth a look.

I won't tell you the sad story of what happened to mine...

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
Is the PLM another term for umbrella or is actually a little different than an umbrella? I am looking at the Paul Buff PLM and it is in a different section than umbrellas so I assume it is different.

I know one difference is you can shoot through it, which means the controls are not facing the subject, or that could be just for the Buff product.

Sometimes my head spins with all these choices. I am just starting out and have a 30x60 and 32x40 softbox, umbrellas that I have not been using. I have a small strip softbox that still is unpacked. I have been using honycombs for hairlight. I am guessing I should get some grids for the softboxes.

Joseph, your posts are always very helpful and I think you (sometimes my memory is good for only about 30 seconds!) posted some very helpful links.

So thank you, your help and the help of others on this forum is extremely appreciated - Gary
--
http://www.expecttowinphotos.com
 
gary stepic said:
Is the PLM another term for umbrella or is actually a little different than an umbrella? I am looking at the Paul Buff PLM and it is in a different section than umbrellas so I assume it is different.
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Umbrellas are literally "umbrellas". They're typically built on frames build for rain umbrellas, by umbrella companies, on special order with different cloth, and then distributed by photographic equipment supply companies.

Umbrella companies don't really care if the umbrella has a precise focus and a good pattern. And the cloth isn't really optimized to the purpose.

(bit of trivia, Westcott, one of the most highly respected makers of softboxes and yes, umbrellas, started out as an umbrella company, making golf umbrellas. One of the brothers saw a market opportunity and they made a few uniquely photographic products: square umbrellas, deep umbrellas, etc).

Because they don't have good parabolic shapes, they can't really collimate light, make the "chief rays" all parallel to each other and perpendicular to the subject. And without well defined focus points, they don't have uniform patterns. They might be hot in the center, which leads to the umbrella being effectively "smaller" than it really is, i.e. a 44 inch preforms like a decent 28 inch dish. Or worse, they might be hot around the edges, and that gives you a "double shadow" that's pretty annoying, especially off a nose. ;)

The reason umbrellas have such weird shapes is that they're typically just a single round or octagonal piece of cloth, and the umbrella company does a juggling act between the diameter and stretchiness of that cloth, and the length and springiness of the ribs, to make it form a curved shape when opened. The shape is an accidental balance of the tensions of the cloth and ribs. If it's "roundish", doesn't tear, and isn't too hard to open, they're happy.

And, because these umbrellas kind of suck to begin with, no one is really that worried about getting the light to umbrella distance right, or worried that the light isn't centered on the umbrella.

There are some exceptions, a few photographic companies make, or commission, umbrellas that have actual parabolic shapes, and use better qualities of cloth. That's why you see Profoto, Broncolor, or Hensel umbrellas costing 4x what you'd pay for a Westcott and 8x the generic brands. (A friend of mine has a 12 foot Bron umbrella, it's amazing. It's also $9,000).

The market for low cost, high performance modifiers has picked up, so we're seeing "more better brollies". The Photek Softliter was one of these. The PLM is perhaps the vangard of the movement. It's as much performance as you can get for $100.
  • Instead of a circle of stretchy cloth and luck, it uses cut and sewn wedges of stiff cloth to to create a parabolic shape. That's the way soft boxes are built.
  • It has 16 ribs, instead of 8 like an umbrella, so it performs less like a bunch of "wedges" dispersing light to the side, and more like a dish, reflecting forward.
  • Because it's such a good parabola, 16 wedges instead of 8 like an octobox or 4 like a soft box, if you want to diffuse it, you don't need as "aggressive" a diffuser, the light is collimated about as good as it can get.
  • It has very reflective silver over black cloth, much less dispersion than a conventional silver brolly.
  • For Pail Buff products (Einstein, Alien Bees, White Lightning, and Zoot) or for Elinchrom products, it mounts with a tripod arrangement that goes to a speed ring, so the light is automatically centered and right at the focal point.
  • That tripod gadget also serves as a proper 140 degree "spill reflector" so there's no stray light going around the umbrella.
gary stepic said:
I know one difference is you can shoot through it, which means the controls are not facing the subject, or that could be just for the Buff product.
Click to expand...
There's two "shoot through" ways to use a PLM. The first is to use the standard silver PLM and put a sock (which Paul Buff sells) over it. That diffuses the collimated light, and you get light like a softbox. A really big soft box. The 86 inch PLM has a front area of 22.3 ft2, which is about as big as my 4x6 softbox.

The other way is to buy the shoot through PLM. I do not recommend it, that's a pretty specialized piece of equipment, useful mostly for the "Chinese Lantern" lighting technique. If you've got a large business meeting, you can hang 2, 3, or 4 of them overhead, and they'll give you something softer than the normal room lighting, that goes everywhere and reflects everywhere. Like a "bare bulb", but 5 feet in diameter.
gary stepic said:
Sometimes my head spins with all these choices. I am just starting out and have a 30x60 and 32x40 softbox, umbrellas that I have not been using. I have a small strip softbox that still is unpacked. I have been using honycombs for hairlight. I am guessing I should get some grids for the softboxes.
Click to expand...
I like grids on soft boxes, especially when working close, so they spill less on the backdrop, and for product.
gary stepic said:
Joseph, your posts are always very helpful and I think you (sometimes my memory is good for only about 30 seconds!) posted some very helpful links.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I try.

But I can't take credit for that really good links post the other day. Although I've also forgotten who posted it.
gary stepic said:
So thank you, your help and the help of others on this forum is extremely appreciated - Gary
Click to expand...
You're very welcome.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
I just received my 64" white PLM v2. I feel dumb but I have a feeling I'm not setting it up correctly (no instructions or PDF). Do you guys have any pix of yours?
 
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