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A55 views please? It feels SO responsive! And great EVF!
- Thread starter antoineb
- Start date
WaltKnapp
Veteran Member
For night shooting the EVF ruins night vision.
It is the nature of the Sony SLT mirror to always have offset internal reflections reflected into the sensor as the mirror is not of the thinness of a pellicule mirror and is angled. This can show up sometimes as ghosts, other times as slight lowering of IQ via contrast or focus differences. Depends on the characteristics of the scene lighting but it's there at some level.
Also the mirror looses about a half stop of light that does not get to the sensor vs a clear optical path behind the lens.
The image in the EVF or LCD always contains a significant delay, it's not realtime and that can matter a lot in any shooting of moving subjects. The image in the view has to be taken by the sensor and processed before it can arrive to be seen. That's way slower than the speed of light arrival on a OVF. The lower the light the more the problem as the exposure has to be longer.
Walt
Glenn
Veteran Member
um Viewfiner on the Nikon just plain black between frames.. and I'm sure the op prefers and viewfinder that sees the whole scene and can indedd show you the sceen even in a dark room the Nikon OVF is small and dark why doi I care about colour in the viewfinder? infact it might be a uge advantage to have the VF show you B&W so you can see the tonality of the scene and better judge DR.
I never got to try the D7000 but I'll tell you what, it's noit a very inviting camera the D300 was better in that regard and the menus are still a mess. I can see where the Sony camera would be just a breath of fresh air to any Nikon user... The VF complains are way over blown and I can see where that EVF can be better better than the OVF's on anything short of the A900..
http://www.fotosource.com/downloads/flyer/eye_cancer_en_CA.pdf
I never got to try the D7000 but I'll tell you what, it's noit a very inviting camera the D300 was better in that regard and the menus are still a mess. I can see where the Sony camera would be just a breath of fresh air to any Nikon user... The VF complains are way over blown and I can see where that EVF can be better better than the OVF's on anything short of the A900..
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http://www.fotosource.com/downloads/flyer/eye_cancer_en_CA.pdf
No, the exposure on A580 and A55 are identical. The gain on A55 sensor is boosted so that both have an identical exposure time.
Glenn
Veteran Member
That might be but at least you can compose in almost darkness! these APS-C viewfinders need modeling lights and such long before the filmones ever did and the EVF fixes that
Thats a theory alright but it's so small that it's not even mattering to traditionally hostile (to Sony) reviewers. I'd say this point doesn't matter.
With and SLR there are periods where there is NO light getting to the VF at all and again this isn't really showing up in pictures
Yup.. but again you can see the subject in almost darkness. even if the delay is a little jarring if your used to an OVF in about 5 minutes you forget there is even a delay at all.
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http://www.fotosource.com/downloads/flyer/eye_cancer_en_CA.pdf
WaltKnapp
Veteran Member
Reports are you get only one locked on aperture, normally f3.5 unless the lens cannot open that wide when using AF in video
That was also what it appeared to do when I checked it with a few lesnses in the store. Definitely no good if I was interested in video where I'd want a lot more DOF.
Walt
The blackout of the A33/A55 is much longer in single shots, in fast continous they freeze shortly. How is that better?
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http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/
WaltKnapp
Veteran Member
I'm talking about the exposure taken by the sensor to be used to produce the viewfinder image, not the one used to take a photo. Though the exposure for the viewfinder is also dependent on the scene lighting level. And most certainly is not the same exposure time for all subject lighting.
While the a580 has nothing to do with this problem, The a580 being a OVF has, for the viewfinder image a near infinitely short delay as it's working at the speed of light and needs no image taken by the sensor.
Walt
sandy b
Veteran Member
Auto focusing
The Multi-CAM 4800DX focusing system is the new mid range AF system which we will probably see in the D9000 (D90 replacement) as well. Its made up of 39 focus points with the 9 center most points being the cross type. It’s leaps and bounds much better than the D5000 and D90 and not far from the D300 and D700. More precisely, in daylight and with a pro level AFS lens (eg 70-200mm) the D7000 is super fast on static subjects and pretty much focuses at the same speed as the D300/700. Differences are seen in tracking moderate to fast moving subjects and under low lighting conditions where the D7000 comes a close 2nd to the D300/700. Where this camera excels is in focusing on faces in full auto mode and with 3D tracking selected. Overall, the focusing is very capable, even tracking moving subjects at 6 fps, though as mentioned not as good as the semi-pro models. With the D7000 I found that the older screw driven lenses seem to focus at the same pace as with the D300, so I can only assume the D7000 is using the same AF screwdriver motor as the D300.
The Multi-CAM 4800DX focusing system is the new mid range AF system which we will probably see in the D9000 (D90 replacement) as well. Its made up of 39 focus points with the 9 center most points being the cross type. It’s leaps and bounds much better than the D5000 and D90 and not far from the D300 and D700. More precisely, in daylight and with a pro level AFS lens (eg 70-200mm) the D7000 is super fast on static subjects and pretty much focuses at the same speed as the D300/700. Differences are seen in tracking moderate to fast moving subjects and under low lighting conditions where the D7000 comes a close 2nd to the D300/700. Where this camera excels is in focusing on faces in full auto mode and with 3D tracking selected. Overall, the focusing is very capable, even tracking moving subjects at 6 fps, though as mentioned not as good as the semi-pro models. With the D7000 I found that the older screw driven lenses seem to focus at the same pace as with the D300, so I can only assume the D7000 is using the same AF screwdriver motor as the D300.
antoineb
Veteran Member
video is supposed to have some AF but it's crap (but this I knew before buying)
It's poor because it's bad on the LV AF, which is very slow. Why Panasonic can make a GF1 AF (contrast-detect) so fast with any of the interchangeable lenses, but then Nikon or Canon cannot make a contrast-detect AF that is also fast, beats me. Especially in the case of Canon who make fast-focusing advanced compacts (Nikon is weaker here).
basically if you ask for AF in video, what you get is some stuff that tries to catch up and eventually does, hunts a lot, and makes a lot of noise. So you get a poorly focused video, with lots of engine noise. Oh and it's mono, not stereo.
Most of the decent compacts (not just the advanced compacts) today deliver MUCH better video, with full AF, and with stereo sounds. ALL the EVIL's, and the Sony A55/33, deliver video with continuous AF with interchangeable lenses, and stereo sound.
So the D7000, much like products from its main competitor here, feels like some not quite fully developed product, as far as video goes.
It's poor because it's bad on the LV AF, which is very slow. Why Panasonic can make a GF1 AF (contrast-detect) so fast with any of the interchangeable lenses, but then Nikon or Canon cannot make a contrast-detect AF that is also fast, beats me. Especially in the case of Canon who make fast-focusing advanced compacts (Nikon is weaker here).
basically if you ask for AF in video, what you get is some stuff that tries to catch up and eventually does, hunts a lot, and makes a lot of noise. So you get a poorly focused video, with lots of engine noise. Oh and it's mono, not stereo.
Most of the decent compacts (not just the advanced compacts) today deliver MUCH better video, with full AF, and with stereo sounds. ALL the EVIL's, and the Sony A55/33, deliver video with continuous AF with interchangeable lenses, and stereo sound.
So the D7000, much like products from its main competitor here, feels like some not quite fully developed product, as far as video goes.
WaltKnapp
Veteran Member
In that level of darkness the EVF wipes out your night vision and that does not fully recover for 20-30 min. Come bumble out in the swamps with me (with the cottonmouths and other fun things) with your night vision gone. I prefer to keep mine, thank you.
You'd be surprised how dim a light can be used with the a700. And of course it's AF has it's own light supply. But I compose and shoot closeups and macro with the a700 in nighttime woods and swamps so dark you cannot see your hand in front of your face.
Matters to people who are after the very top IQ in real life shooting. Those that spend more than a week or two and spend their money on their cameras.
And is a result of laws of physics that say what happens at a refractive index boundary. If it's no so then lenses could not form a image as light would go right through their curved surfaces with no change in direction. And I've noticed that lenses do work as do mirrors following those laws.
That has zero to do with the subject at hand. Obviously you have no answer, no magic light recovery so are just trying smoke and mirrors to confuse the subject.
No light getting to the VF equals no light for a shot.
The movement of your subject and not getting the framing you are shooting for will most certainly remind you of the EVF delay if you forget.
You can forget it only if you shoot nothing but still life.
Walt
antoineb
Veteran Member
And REMEMBER most of these reviews are done using the BEST, FASTEST-FOCUSING lens the manufacturer has to offer.
In these tests top DSLRs typically AF in about 0.1s, semi-pro and high-end consumer in about 0.2s. And 0.2s is also what advanced compacts get.
More DSLR users who think their AF is fast, should try an advanced compact.
The other thing is, if you focus at say 10ft, and then at 11ft, it will match the AF time in reviews. But if you focus at say 10ft, and then at 20ft, the delay will be significantly longer of course.
And that's before getting to lower light levels, where since the AF sensor is getting only part of the light, it progressively struggles.
Oh, and finally the D7000 CANNOT FOCUS IN VERY LOW LIGHT, say some lights on a anotherwise dark country road. But my advanced compacts can. And the D300 could also.
In these tests top DSLRs typically AF in about 0.1s, semi-pro and high-end consumer in about 0.2s. And 0.2s is also what advanced compacts get.
More DSLR users who think their AF is fast, should try an advanced compact.
The other thing is, if you focus at say 10ft, and then at 11ft, it will match the AF time in reviews. But if you focus at say 10ft, and then at 20ft, the delay will be significantly longer of course.
And that's before getting to lower light levels, where since the AF sensor is getting only part of the light, it progressively struggles.
Oh, and finally the D7000 CANNOT FOCUS IN VERY LOW LIGHT, say some lights on a anotherwise dark country road. But my advanced compacts can. And the D300 could also.
antoineb
Veteran Member
so when using any other lens, AF is a bit slower, and ends up being slower than an advanced compact. And that's in GOOD light.
Yes, speed of light is fast but so is electric signal. Once the EVF refersh rate is so higher that it becomes faster than human reaction/brain processing, then speed of light argumenty would be academic. For practical purposes both OVF and EVF will be faster than human reaction time.
tbcass
Veteran Member
The onboard flash does experience about a 1/4 sec delay. It is probably the biggest flaw I find in the camera. If this is true with external flashes as well it would be a problem trying to photograph sports with a flash. The saving grace is the excellent high iso quality which makes the flash less necessary.
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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
antoineb
Veteran Member
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond7000/page4.asp
Of course they don't provide the comparison for the A55 because their computation is only for optical.
But when you put your eye to the EVF of an A55, and compare with a D7000, it's clear that (1) they are about the same size, and (2) the A55 can add gain and so give you a much clearer image in lower light levels.
For a BIG viewfinder you need a D700 ar 5D2 of course, APS-C cameras' viewfinders are tiny.
Of course they don't provide the comparison for the A55 because their computation is only for optical.
But when you put your eye to the EVF of an A55, and compare with a D7000, it's clear that (1) they are about the same size, and (2) the A55 can add gain and so give you a much clearer image in lower light levels.
For a BIG viewfinder you need a D700 ar 5D2 of course, APS-C cameras' viewfinders are tiny.
antoineb
Veteran Member
...but when moving the camera around in a store, and outside the store, with a couple different average lenses mounted, it's clear that the A55 focuses a GOOD DEAL FASTER, clearly faster than a D300(s) or similar class camera.
It's just night and day.
It's just night and day.
antoineb
Veteran Member
(nt)
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antoineb
Veteran Member
(nt)
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Danel
Veteran Member
The blackout on a traditional DSLR, like the D7000, is almost unnoticeable. Figure, the human eye when it blinks takes between 3/10 of a second and 4/10 of a second. Now blink your eye and see how much "black out" you notice. Now, lets say you are shooting with the D7000 and the shutter speed is 1/125 of a second. How much of a "blackout" do you think you will notice? Answer: the blackout is barely noticeable.
The blackout with single shots is longer with the Axx cameras than with a traditional DSLR. However, it still is pretty quick, and when shooting single shots with my A55 it has never created a problem for me.
In 10 fps mode, there is one short blackout in the beginning and then you are seeing frames come through the EVF at 10 fps. Believe it or not, with just a bit of practice, you will find that the 1/10 of a second delay between what the camera sees and when you see it ends up being very usable in all but the fastest and most erratic action. One tenth of a second is faster than a blink of your eye.
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