Outdoor flash advice

[SteveInCo]

I have an E-410 and am looking to add a better flash to it. Here is some background on what I am trying to accomplish:

Most of my shooting is of outdoor motorcycle events in the woods. I get one (or sometimes two) chances to shoot each rider as they come by. If I'm lucky, I might be able to snap off a couple frames before they are gone.

Conditions vary from bright sunlight to cloudy and overcast, or possibly even rain or snow. Its a steady stream of traffic throughout the day, and suitable locations are few and far between, so I'm pretty much stuck at one location for the duration. This means I have to deal with the lighting conditions as they change rather than trying to relocate to somewhere with better lighting.

The biggest problem I have now is shadows. In the morning the riders may be in dark shadows with backlighting, mid day they may be in direct sunlight, afternoon may bring shadows with front lighting. Then there is also the possiblity of overcast conditions which can help balancing things out, but might not afford enough light to attain the shutter speeds I need.

A nice strobe to fill the shadows seems like the answer, but I haven't done a lot of outdoor shooting with a strobe so I'm not sure what to look for. I'm assuming I'm going to want the highest power one I can get in order to be able to have an effect at the distances I need in broad daylight. But then there are also things like diffusers and bouncing (which obviously doesn't do much good outdoors) and reflectors, etc.

And of course to make it even tougher, the locations where I shoot from are only reachable by motorcycle, so the amount of gear I can carry is limited. Big 6' studio reflectors aren't going to be an option unless the roll up to something the size of an umbrella.

I've looked at the Olympus flashes, and my first instinct is to go top of the line with something like the FL-50, but of course my pocketbook says otherwise. Are there other units (not necessarily Olympus) that will give me what I need for less money and still provide a full feature set on the 410?

Any good advice on how to deal with conditions such as I have described above?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gregm61]

It sounds like the conditions you shoot in pretty much mirrors what I deal with in shooting thoroughbred races each spring/early summer, at least as far as often dealing with shadows and changing lighting conditions. The woods is the last place I'd be shooting what I do!

First, do you think strobing these guys as they race by will be a bad thing as far as distracting them as they negotiate the course? I know flashing a horse and rider with a high-powered strobe would not only be a bad idea, it is probably forbidden by the track although I have never checked. I never see the offical photogs on the track using strobes and assume if they do not, I should not.

I simply shoot RAW, expose for the highlights and manually pull up shadow details, which vary according to the time of day the race happens to fall and/or weather conditions..

 

[InOmaha]

Will the let you flash? You don't want to interfere with their riding for safety purposes. What lens do you use. Maybe a constant aperture like a Sigma 18-50 f2.8 would help. The 50-200 is likely too big, but maybe not much more depending on what you end up for a flash solution.

I bought a set of three cheap flash triggers for $30 and a pair of old Minolta AF 4000s for $15 each. More than enough light (gn 40 meters at 50mm) and they work on camera with manual adjustment if needed (after testing for voltage). I carry an FL-36r with me all the time. It's tiny and recharges fast enough if you don't have it on full power. I can trigger the set wirelessly from my digital camera or OM-2n and use the Minolta Flashes on a family member's Minolta 7000 with TTL functionality.

There are plenty of low cost options available for flashes if you don't need the TTL and more available than just Olympus if you can live without the remote operation function. I would go for cheap so you don't have to worry about the flash getting damaged.

 

[Timskis6]

I've looked at the Olympus flashes, and my first instinct is to go top of the line with something like the FL-50, but of course my pocketbook says otherwise. Are there other units (not necessarily Olympus) that will give me what I need for less money and still provide a full feature set on the 410?

Any good advice on how to deal with conditions such as I have described above?

You've got an E-410 which does not support wireless TTL via Olympus flashes. This would have been the ideal choice, but let's work with what you have. The E-410 is also very small in hand (I had one), and does not feel good with a flash attached. Not at all.

Here's what you need. You need a manual flash, a flash stand, wireless sync, and a diffuser. You can get all of this for under $100, total.

The idea is to set up the flash on a stand (a tripod will work, if you have one, otherwise buy a cheap flash/umbrella stand, ebay), and trigger the flash each time you release the shutter button. You will be limited to the sync speed of the E-410, which I believe is 1/160s. Since you're in the woods, this will not be a problem. If it is a problem, you can use an ND filter on your lense to reduce some light.

You will need to get used to manual flash and manual camera settings, but this is not difficult. One day of practicing and you'll understand it.

For example, you will keep your E-410 at 1/160s and ISO100. You will choose an aperture that correctly meters the scene; let's assume it's around f/5.6 since you'll be in the shade. Now, these settings do not change.

Next you'll place your flash on the stand, turn it on (along with the wireless sync), and adjust the power. Take a practice picture with the camera on full power. Check the exposure. Dial the flash down in power one click if it's over exposed. If it's underexposed at full power, you can either increase the ISO to 200, choose a larger aperture (like f/4), or physically move the flash closer to the subject.

Once you have found the correct flash power setting, you're done. That's it.

As the day brightens or there is more light, you can increasingly make the aperture smaller to make it darker, to compensate for the brighter light. Cake. Add a flash diffuser if you want to make the light softer.

Manual flash: $40

Flash stand: $15 (or use a tripod that you have, or a gorilla pod and wrap it on a tree branch, or bring some duct tape and tape it to a tree or rock)
Wireless sync: ebay, chinese import, $30
Diffuser: ebay, $10

--
Tim
'I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.'
E3/7-14/12-60/35-100/150/25/EC14/EC20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/

 

[SteveInCo]

Nice shots!

As far as whether the flash would be distracting, I wouldn't think so. If it were dark out, I'd say maybe, but in broad daylight, I don't think its going to have a significant impact. This isn't a race, so nobody is worrying about trying to keep position, bikes don't "spook", and the riders are "prepped" that their photo is going to be taken with lead signs, so no surprises. I try to choose a place where they can show off a little while at the same time being a safe location with plenty of room to manuver. (hence the difficulty in finding suitable locations)

Your method is essentially what I've been doing, though I think my post processing skills could use some improvement when I compare my results to yours.

Thanks.

 

[SteveInCo]

I'm using the kit lenses at the moment, but have my eye on the Zuiko 12-66mm f2.8. I've been debating on whether the lens or the strobe is a better first investment. Ideally I am hoping to be able to scrounge the money for both, but I may have to put one off for a while.

That brings up another point too about charging...sometimes I only get a split second from one rider to the next and end up pushing the 410 as fast as it can shoot. Will any of these flashes keep up at that rate?

 

[SteveInCo]

Here's what you need. You need a manual flash, a flash stand, wireless sync, and a diffuser. You can get all of this for under $100, total.

I like the price.

Forgive my ignorance. Its been a long time since I dealt with any of this stuff - long before the days of digital, and I've forgotten most of what little I knew back then.

The 1/180 sync speed (the published spec on the 410) seems a bit slow for action shots when just trying to fill. 1/800 is about the slowest I want to go. Is the flash going to dictate my exposure time to stop the action, or am I going to end up with some motion blurr?

 

[Gregm61]

That brings up another point too about charging...sometimes I only get a split second from one rider to the next and end up pushing the 410 as fast as it can shoot. Will any of these flashes keep up at that rate?

You'd need to use the right type of batteries. The rechargeable nickel metal hydrides provide almost instantaneous recharges on an FL50R, but if you shoot too many frames in burst mode or too many fast sequence shots with it on, it will start to overheat and you could fry it. I personally would not go beyond 7-9 fast sequence shots and let the flash cool off before doing another set.

 

[InOmaha]

I have the 12-60 and it's a really good lens, but f4 on the long end. So it may be too dark for what you want at times. The 18-50 is 2.8 through-out and the zoom is probably important to you.

This might get your sync speeds up a little.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1022&message=26387745&changemode=1

 

[Gregm61]

The 1/180 sync speed (the published spec on the 410) seems a bit slow for action shots when just trying to fill. 1/800 is about the slowest I want to go. Is the flash going to dictate my exposure time to stop the action, or am I going to end up with some motion blurr?

FP mode with dedicated units will allow syncing at much faster speeds, but at a cost of less power and, depending on the shutter speed, less to much less reach. How far away from these riders are you when you shoot?

 

[Timskis6]

FP mode with dedicated units will allow syncing at much faster speeds, but at a cost of less power and, depending on the shutter speed, less to much less reach. How far away from these riders are you when you shoot?

Also at a significantly steeper price, too.

--
Tim
'I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.'
E3/7-14/12-60/35-100/150/25/EC14/EC20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/

 

[Timskis6]

The 1/180 sync speed (the published spec on the 410) seems a bit slow for action shots when just trying to fill. 1/800 is about the slowest I want to go. Is the flash going to dictate my exposure time to stop the action, or am I going to end up with some motion blurr?

Yes, 1/180s is a bit slow to sync at. The E-3 and other cameras can do 1/250s, and almost do 1/320s with some fudging.

However, remember motion is relative, and the flash can "freeze" a subject. For example, given the same setup, you might see motion blur if your camera is stationary on a tripod, but you may not see any motion blur if it's hand held and sweeping as the subject comes into the frame. This is because motion is relative; by sweeping the camera, the sensor "sees" a motionless subject. Additionally, if the majority of your light is coming from the flash, you'll freeze the subject.

If you're only wanting a flash for fill, and nothing else, you might want to consider spending a few more dollars and getting a Metz flash that is capable of both TTL and FP-TTL. The Metz-series are cheaper than the Olympus-series, but more expensive than a fully-manual flash.

FP-TTL allows you to sync at faster shutter speeds, at the expense of power and effective range. Here are two good reads about flash, that are very basic:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm
http://www.thewonderoflight.com/articles/?page_id=118

--
Tim
'I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.'
E3/7-14/12-60/35-100/150/25/EC14/EC20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/

 

[InOmaha]

I forgot that given the people are moving past you quickly, you could also try LED light panels, video lights, or some form of constant lighting to brighten up the area depending on distance and battery life.

I've looked at some of the LED lights that use Sony batteries like you find on video cameras for extended battery life. I'm not sure of the reach of the lighting, but they are in getting down in the $30-$100 range.

The biggest benefit is no syncing required. But they may not be bright enough unless you can strategically place several around the area, or figure out other work arounds.

 

[SteveInCo]

You'd need to use the right type of batteries. The rechargeable nickel metal hydrides provide almost instantaneous recharges on an FL50R, but if you shoot too many frames in burst mode or too many fast sequence shots with it on, it will start to overheat and you could fry it. I personally would not go beyond 7-9 fast sequence shots and let the flash cool off before doing another set.

Cooling off shouldn't be a problem. Riders come sporadically. Normaly I might get 2-3 within a few seconds of each other, then several minutes before the next one shows up. Once in a while I'll get a pack of a half dozen or so all back to back and end up filling the buffer before I run out of riders. But that doesn't happen very often. The average over the course of the day is about 1 rider per minute, and I try to get 1-2 frames per rider.

 

[SteveInCo]

I forgot that given the people are moving past you quickly, you could also try LED light panels, video lights, or some form of constant lighting to brighten up the area depending on distance and battery life.

That sounds bulky. Keep in mind I have to transport everything on the back of a bike. Even with LEDs, you'd probably be looking at something along the lines of a car battery to keep them going for 6 hours + with enough brightness to be useful.

Although perhaps the idea of a large reflector that I could move around as the sun moves. Not a mirror, but some sort of reflective tarp that I could hang to bounce some light in to the shadows. The canopy I use to shade myself comes to mind - one side is a reflective silver coating.

 

[SteveInCo]

If you're only wanting a flash for fill, and nothing else, you might want to consider spending a few more dollars and getting a Metz flash that is capable of both TTL and FP-TTL. The Metz-series are cheaper than the Olympus-series, but more expensive than a fully-manual flash.

I'll have to take some time to look in to that.

Thanks for everyone that has given input. Unfortunately I timed my posting poorly and I am leaving town for a week and I won't have access to this forum while I'm gone. If I don't respond for a while, please don't think I'm being rude. I'll try to catch up when I get back.

 

[SteveInCo]

FP mode with dedicated units will allow syncing at much faster speeds, but at a cost of less power and, depending on the shutter speed, less to much less reach. How far away from these riders are you when you shoot?

Distance varys by location, but generally no closer than 20' and no further than 40'.

 

[gdiver]

Have you looked into better beamer, I just ordered one. I want to see if it's as good for flash reach as what they claim.

http://www.naturescapes.net/store/better-beamer-flash-extenders/

 

[dgrogers]

If you use fast shutter speeds, you'll need a flash capable of FP mode or you'll be stuck at shutter speeds of around 1/200 (I don't know what it is on your camera). If you go much faster, you'll need the most powerful flash you can get as FP mode greatly reduces flash power. You'll also want a flash that's capable of recharging quickly, which may require an expensive external battery pack unless you don't mind the possibility of waiting 8 seconds between shots.

Metz may make an equivalent to the FL50 for a little less money (don't know as I haven't checked), but make absolutely certain it's compatible with FP mode if you use higher shutter speeds.

Have you tried a reflector? You might need an assistant to aim it, but you won't have to worry about recharge times, etc.