Is it really hard/expensive to make E630?

[maboleth]

Oly nailed it with E620, finally got the ideal IQ-small factor-price value then abandoned the whole idea!

But, is it really hard to make E630? Put E5/PEN sensor & Truepic V CPU and some more tweaks in E620 body and here you go! I really doubt that E630 would steal potential PEN buyers... Those two cameras are using two different formats that just look similar. No one with m4/3 lenses would buy E6xx and vice versa.

It's ok to abandon E4xx and E5xx series, maybe even Exx, but E6xx has a big potential for everyone owning a 4/3 glass that are not wanting to pay premium for Ex.
I see E6xx used by both amateurs and pros, it's versatile and affordable.

Oly used to release cameras with just marginal improvements (like E400+ series or E510-520), but this one would be a true upgrade and I bet everyone with E620 would buy it, including new customers. Then many of the existing E620 owners would buy more quality glass... More $$$ from lens and to keep customers happy. The E630 would also reassure E5 users to feel that their investment in body & glass is more secure.

If we compare PEN and Exxx DSLRs as a riding mowers and a car - Oly is essentially suggesting car drivers to start driving mowers with an adapter that could take the whole family on a trip. Errr...hello? Oly WHERE is your logic in this game?

--
http://travelingnome.ivframes.com

 

[Andrewteee]

The global monthly sales numbers indicate that sales of DSLRs are decreasing and mirrorless are increasing (1001 Noisy Cameras sometimes release these numbers). And if you look at the top selling DSLRs on Amazon.com the top 20 are Nikon and Canon. Olympus sees this and sees the success of their mFT line and makes a decision about where to focus its energy.

Now, what could be interesting is an E630-like mFT camera with an mFT mount - then you get the compact, lightweight camera FTs historically envisioned. Along the lines of the G2/GH2 but more robust.

What prompted this thought was seeing the new Panasonic 100-300m lens on a GF1. It looks like an odd pairing, but that lens could work really well on a E630-like cameras.

Since the E620 essentially has DSLR-like performance, more so than mFTs, it could be a better, more robust mFT camera.

Though we'd all agree that the FT and mFT lens lines are not on par.

 

[David J Barber]

Like I said. Change nothing but the sensor/engine and 7-stop bracketing.

Otherwise, keep the E-620 as it is.

I'd buy it and see what's around in three years.

David.

--
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

 

[jockstrap]

I know, right? I mean how hard is it to design a new logo that says E630 and update the firmware with a DRAMATIC TONE "Art Filter"

No brainer!

 

[CharlesB58]

Ok one more time .

Olympus is a business. Businesses exist to make a profit.

Profit depends on selling a product in sufficient quantities to offset all the expense involved in production and distribution.

When sales have already been slow-especially due to a sluggish economy-businesses make "strategic decisions" based on what they feel will be best for long term profitability.

This is a matter of saying "We have X amount of money avaialable to develop and produce new products. We can't produce product A and product B in a way that will make both profitable. Which product should we then produce?"

Simple business practice-PEN won out over Exxx series.

It wouldn't be hard nor expensive-but in the opinion of Olympus, it wouldn't support long term profitability. No, a few people on a forum saying "I would definitely buy an E630" doesn't warrant as much consideration as you might think because people buying E620s are already a much smaller percentage of the market than those Olympus feels will buy PENs.
--

Some people operate cameras. Others use them to create images. There is a difference.

http://ikkens.zenfolio.com/

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[AxeM]

..that works (well) with few HG lenses I have. I do not want to limit myself to Canon camcorder anymore and lug it around.

If I am forced to pay E-5 price to get video, I would rather buy Sony A55 and some nice Zeiss lens, and shelf my Zuikos.

 

[AxeM]

Olympus is a business. Businesses exist to make a profit.

And we are the consumers. We have money in our pockets not to give to a busines that does not care about our needs.

No way I am buying in Pen after Olympus abandoned its product line that I have expected to last me some ten years or more.

 

[ajcgn]

Olympus is a business. Businesses exist to make a profit.

I just wish they could have done it without s c r e w i n g their existing idiot customers (like me) that thought there was a future in 4/3rds because Olympus kept telling us there was

I'm a former Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac owner. Guess I sure can pick em. Is my beloved Buick next to go?

--
Andrew, Toronto ON
(laziness, not necessity, is the mother of invention)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajcgn/sets/

 

[sderdiarian]

I just wish they could have done it without s c r e w i n g their existing idiot customers (like me) that thought there was a future in 4/3rds because Olympus kept telling us there was

I'm a former Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac owner. Guess I sure can pick em. Is my beloved Buick next to go?

No, the Buick equivalent in the Oly line-up is the E-5, and it's alive and well until, like its automotive equivalent, its customer base dies off.

I drive a Miata, camera equivalent to the E-620. Both are small, light, handle great and have all the right features.

Add E-PL1 sensor/processor and video, all very simple upgrades right out of their parts bin, and this user base would buy plenty of them, many more than the ridiculously overpriced old before it was even introduced E-5. Those of us who cut our teeth on OM's never had any interest in the bloated beast that is the E-3/E-5.

Too easy, too logical for the chimps cuurently in charge of Oly to wrap their heads around. Please, please, Oly, cut your losses and sell the imaging division to a buyer with passion for photography and a brain.

--
Sailin' Steve

 

[Raist3d]

why did Olympus abandon the e-620 if it was so perfect. Do you honestly think you know morethan their market research and sales numbers knowledge?
--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

 

[thatsnoordinaryrabbit]

The real value in a 620 replacement right now is retaining existing customers. If you own any Oly body short of a E-3 or E-30 and want to upgrade to a similar or slightly higher spec and performance, with modern features, you have zero Oly options. Pens underperform that segment and the E-5 costs half again to double what you budget would be. So you either sit on your hands and wait patiently like an obedient little customer or you go somewhere else.

The problem is that these customers are the kind of customers that are likely to spend money on their lenses and accessories. You need a lot of new buyers who just get the one lens kit to make up for losing these existing customers. And the competition all offer very good options in this class. You risk customers discovering that contrary to the prevailing attitude in this forum, the competition do not make crap.

To me, it would be worth it to offer something in this segment, even as a break even proposition - which should be easy given that most of the costs are already sunk.

--
STFU and do it.

 

[kmanche]

I'm new to this forum, and am not a camera designer, but here are my thoughts...

It probably doesn't matter if it's hard or expensive for Olympus to build an E630 because it's something that they probably don't want to do. For all of the satisfied E620 users out there, there are probably as many satisfied E1, E500, E510, OM users out there who would probably want the same kind of update for what they might consider Olympus's near-perfect camera. Maybe they will come out with a less expensive E body before the 43rds becomes legacy equipment, but who knows what it might look like.

From reading this form, the rumors forum, and olympus's own statements, I doubt if they'll come out with anything that is substantially progressive in an exclusively 43rds mount cause they want to focus on m43rds.

I have come to terms with their plans. Not a big fan of their plans, but I'll take what I can get til it's over for good.

In a warped sense, I kinda wish that m43rds had been developed to be completely incompatible with 43rds, with a different name and everything. Maybe only keeping the flash system compatible. When I first got my EP2, I spent a lot of time trying get comfortable using the 43rd lenses on it, but I only got comfortable when I gave up trying. I just don't interchange the lenses between the systems, and it suites me better to not even try anymore. Panasonic users were shocked when they announced no more 43rd development, but at least it was over for them in a relatively short period. I think what scares others is that Olympus is stretching the life of 43rds, and although it is probably a good thing in the short term, everyone knows that at some point, Olympus will have to make the same move that Panasonic made.

Keep your E620 health and clean, and maybe it will be a classic in a few years!

 

[Art_P]

Oly nailed it with E620, finally got the ideal IQ-small factor-price value then abandoned the whole idea!

Could be they just don't feel the need to replace it just yet... maybe in a couple years? (of course by then it would be mirrorless)

But, is it really hard to make E630? Put E5/PEN sensor & Truepic V CPU and some more tweaks in E620 body and here you go!

Not hard, not especially expensive, but if there's still plenty of 620's and 600's kicking around, why build a camera that will obsolite them?

I really doubt that E630 would steal potential PEN buyers...

But maybe Oly wants us to migrate over to Pen

Those two cameras are using two different formats that just look similar. No one with m4/3 lenses would buy E6xx and vice versa.
But those who have no lenses yet (new buyers) might go either way

It's ok to abandon E4xx and E5xx series, maybe even Exx,

Speak for yourself! The 6xx never apealed to me, I like a camera I can hold.

but E6xx has a big potential for everyone owning a 4/3 glass that are not wanting to pay premium for Ex.

Hey, maybe if they built it like the OM-77, w interchangable grips, those who wanted light & trim could use the BLS grip, those wanting more power... and grip, could use the BLM grip... but the 77 wasn't all that well made.

Oly used to release cameras with just marginal improvements (like E400+ series or E510-520),

I think the 520 was the camera they meant the 510 to be, but they felt they needed to get a camera out before the 520 was ready... Sounds like they are now content to wait until a camera is ready before releaseing it.

but this one would be a true upgrade and I bet everyone with E620 would buy it, including new customers.

Hey, not everyone has the cash to upgrade every year or two... I think you would loose that bet.

It's fine to want what you want, but don't assume the camera you want is the one everyone else wants.

Also keep in mind, if 620's were selling better than Pens, we wouldn't be discussing this, because there probably would be a 630 out already...

But either way, I'm sure your 620 still works, I know my 520 still does, and it will be getting a workout this weekend.
--
Art P
Select images may be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sigvarius/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cecropia_grove/

 

[RoyGBiv]

The real value in a 620 replacement right now is retaining existing customers. If you own any Oly body short of a E-3 or E-30 and want to upgrade to a similar or slightly higher spec and performance, with modern features, you have zero Oly options. Pens underperform that segment and the E-5 costs half again to double what you budget would be. So you either sit on your hands and wait patiently like an obedient little customer or you go somewhere else.

The problem is that these customers are the kind of customers that are likely to spend money on their lenses and accessories. You need a lot of new buyers who just get the one lens kit to make up for losing these existing customers. And the competition all offer very good options in this class. You risk customers discovering that contrary to the prevailing attitude in this forum, the competition do not make crap.

To me, it would be worth it to offer something in this segment, even as a break even proposition - which should be easy given that most of the costs are already sunk.

--
STFU and do it.

Technically, you still have e-620 & e-30 as options for the time being. But that's besides the point, I know.

The funny thing about retaining customers is that it doesn't actually have to involve you. It doesn't have to involve anybody currently holding an olympus dslr. The lenses & bodies you sell perpetuate continuity for oly in the buyer. It's like that darn ring in Lord of the Rings.

Oly's current tact is classic strategy when you have a runaway train in an emerging product line & limited resources. Lucky for Oly, the character of persistence in these lenses really helps them make an arguably risky move. They're saying "Lost revenue? Pheh! There's no invested capital, so who cares? We're too busy making bank on m4/3 customers!"-- which is the bigger elephant. They're the more strategic elephant. They're the elephant that will still be relevant 20 yrs from now. And guess what... they buy lenses too.

So, It's obvious Oly's hoping they can go slim on their prosumer DSLR offerings, riding out the sunken cost already invested in e-620 & e-30 for the time being. If 'n when what we're calling "e-630" gets back on the drawing board. It'll fill out the portfolio where the e-620s & e-30s happily do now. It'd be the "latest & greatest." And it'll still have an audience...thanks to the lenses & well-built bodies everybody's been selling on the used market.

Will it be DSLR? Will it be a pen? Who can say? But more importantly...who cares? So long as it actually meets the needs of the segment, those details are not actually relevant.

--
'I have no responsibilities here whatsoever'

 

[maboleth]

But maybe Oly wants us to migrate over to Pen

That's true. But so far, they want to replace 4/3 with inferior system, that pen currently is.

Again, PEN promised much, but in my opinion, it failed to deliver...so far. You have 2x more expensive standard lens that are optically the same like their cheap 4/3 siblings. They are smaller but not that much. Panny cameras easily surpassed PENs in almost every way, especially AF.

And I personally don't understand the point of PEN except for being an advanced P&S for Japanese tourists. ;-) Don't get me wrong - it has its own qualities, but I cannot accept the "fact" that 4/3 and m4/3 are similar. To me, they are two different worlds! At least, for now.

You cannot expect to have a decent lens (50-200 for example) attached on it - then the point of being small and compact is denied. Further, no real grip... If you add a grip to PEN and other simple features, you get the E6xx sized camera.

But either way, I'm sure your 620 still works, I know my 520 still does, and it will be getting a workout this weekend.

Actually, I don't have E620, but E30. For me, E620 is too small and without some useful features (higher flash sync, leveler, etc...), but I know how many people enjoy E620 and what that camera means to the whole 4/3 market, now that we have the E5.

--
http://travelingnome.ivframes.com

 

[FrankyM]

It's not a question of hard or expensive. It's a question of return on investment , plain and simple. Olympus is a business like any other and must act accordingly no matter how emotional customers get with their products.

They've decided that they can't support two product lines so they've dropped the one that generates the least revenue.

It may also be true that the high price of the E5 reflects more the expectations of sales than the true cost (and of course, margins of 'flagship' products are always high).

Frank

 

[petrbur]

I bought E-620 only one year ago.

Even I underestand that a new sensor/processor will add better IQ, this is not enough for me to buy upgraded "E-630" now. The existing E-620 is still a great camera full of the nice features and with very good IQ, which I am happy with.

7 stop bracketing is a different story. But this can be done by very simple software update - not necessary to built up a whole new camera.

I vote for a software update

--
Petr
Zenfolio gallery at http://medsved.net

 

[amalric]

I bought E-620 only one year ago.

Even I underestand that a new sensor/processor will add better IQ, this is not enough for me to buy upgraded "E-630" now. The existing E-620 is still a great camera full of the nice features and with very good IQ, which I am happy with.

7 stop bracketing is a different story. But this can be done by very simple software update - not necessary to built up a whole new camera.

I vote for a software update

I was going to say the same. Do a parting gift.

Personally I ask additionally for the same upgrade that was made for the Pens: faster LiveView. Because it works so well with the flipping LCD.

Am.

--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

 

[Bobby J]

to have a choice. They WANT you to have to buy M4:3 in order to have a small camera. They (Oly) are planning their future around M4:3 and EVF cameras. They have indicated that they will likely continue making the pro level E system cameras (at least for a while longer) but will no longer make small, inexpensive ones. If you want that you gotta buy the M4:3
system.
--
BJM

 

[caver3d]

I know, right? I mean how hard is it to design a new logo that says E630 and update the firmware with a DRAMATIC TONE "Art Filter"

No brainer!

Ah, but then you'd have the "techno-whiners" on this board bashing it and saying why wasn't this done 6 months ago? Then again, they're not really photographers.

caver3d