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Lightweight E-3 Alternative - Advice please ?

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jkrumm said:
Christina, I think the focusing is close to the 510. I use a bunch of 520's at my daughter's school and they are very similar, especially with the kit lenses. I think the 620 is a tiny step backwards with the 50f2 and the 50-200. It just seems a little more reluctant to find focus in dim light. But in good light, with IS turned off, it feels a little snappier, with a slightly faster frame rate and better C-AF, from what I can tell. IS slows the frame rate noticeably.

--
John Krumm
Juneau, AK
Click to expand...
Hello again John,

Thanks for replying again, your experience with both cameras and my favourite 50f2 and 50-200 is most interesting and much appreciated.
It's always about the light - that alone can make such a difference !

As I always shoot with the IS turned on, I hadn't realised that it slows the frame rate noticeably. I'll have to try that !

Thanks again,
Best wishes,
Christina

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I don't think it slows the frame rate in the E3, but I think it does in the 620. Different systems.

--
John Krumm
Juneau, AK
 
LinusP said:
Gigi B said:
I know I've been spoiled by the focus speed of the E-3 with the 12-60mm.
Click to expand...
LinusP said:
An E-3 with HG glass certainly isn't a discrete candid camera.

I only have the pro glass, sadly I don't have the muscles or the cash for the HG !
Click to expand...
I wonder if there's a miscommunication here. When you say "pro glass," do you mean standard grade (SG), high grade (HG), or super high grade (SHG)? If you haven't seen it, here's Olympus' road map:



If you have mostly larger HG/SHG glass, your biggest enemy in terms of weight would seem to be your lenses. In that case, I'd say buy a PEN with either the kit lens or the Panasonic 20mm, which is supposed to be excellent.

If you have smaller primes or SG, glass though, the E-620 would be cheaper and have the side benefit if being faster (than a PEN) to focus all your higher-end Four Thirds glass once you're fully healed.
Click to expand...
Hi LinusP,

Many thanks for your reply too, with my apologies for getting the lens terminology wrong - I'm too busy thinking of the bodies !
Of course I should have written HG - the 11-22, 14-54, 12-60, 50, and 50-200.

It was good of you to post the Lens map, for though I'm familiar with the 4/3 chart, and impatiently waiting for that mythical 100mm macro, I hadn't seen the m4/3 lens map before.

Weight is my main problem at present, which is why the E-620, combined with my kit lenses or pancake would make a really good lightweight combination on walks.

The excellent advice in this forum does make me reconsider, and have another look at the PEN too...

Not an easy decision ! :)

Best wishes again,
Christina

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RoelHendrickx said:
I'm considering getting a new extra body.

While I still love and use regularly my E-1 and E-330, there may be something in my future for which I will need a backup body that is more in line with the E-3's output (megapixel count and all that).

And I was wondering whether to get an E-30 or E-620 (in case the E-5 does not appear on the horizon soon enough).

But your post singlehandedly made me reconsider the EP2 or EPL1 with viewfinder...
Click to expand...
Hello Roel,

I know exactly what you mean, it singlehandedly stopped me in my tracks to reconsider the E-P2 or E-PL1 with viewfinder too !

Not an easy decision !

Best wishes,
Christina

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My Gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23773763@N07/

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do not expect the same image quality or speed of operation.

It's a nice camera, but it's no E-3.

I would have said the E-30 but I am not sure if the E-30 is already too big/weighty for what you want.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
 
Raist3d said:
do not expect the same image quality or speed of operation.
It's a nice camera, but it's no E-3.
Click to expand...
Hello Raist3d,

Your reply is much appreciated too, and of course it's understandable that the E-620 isn't going to be as good as the E-3 at half the price !
The old saying, "you only get what you pay for" will always be true !
Member said:
I would have said the E-30 but I am not sure if the E-30 is already too big/weighty for what you want.
Click to expand...
Yes, the E-30 is a most attractive camera, but at 655g without batteries, it's closer to the 810g for the E-3 without batteries.

I'm very grateful to everyone for taking the time and trouble to help, and I really appreciate your honest and helpful advice.

You've all given me quantities of "food for thought" to munch on, and it sure takes my mind off the recent operation ! :)

Best wishes,
Christina

--
My Gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23773763@N07/

UK Photo Safari Group (International Member)
( http://www.ukphotosafari.org/ )

 
Hi Roel/Christina

Here are my 2c

My first DSLR was a E520 and I still think the overall photo at lower ISO esp colours are very good out of this camera and has a special texture/feel to it. Low light/High iso is quite disappointing from my view but its a known story and DR too.

I got a EP1 as my bday gift this year ( one year on after the 520 ) and I have to say I am blown away by its IQ especially in low light. I think DR is also better than the 520.

However the colours and texture are slightly different ( I think this is true of the 620 and E-30 also ) with the new 12mp sensor and True pic IV/V imaging engine. The high iso files respond well to pushing as well in Oly viewer or LR...

However, when it comes to focussing, I use the Pen with the m14-42 which is an ok focusser - about half the speed of my 4/3 14-42 on the 520 and the 40-150 (adapted via MMF1) isnt bad but not super quick. I have heard good things about the m.9-18 and the 17mm pancake but do not have them.

Low light focussing revelations from a recent experience shooting an indoor event. The 520 with 40-150 & 14-42 was hopeless in an indoors mixed light situation ( kids bday ). While the Pen wasn't fast the CDAF atleast focussed but both were beaten by compact cameras with an AF-assist ( not joking - very serious here - I think manafacturers are making a big mistake by omitting this simple feature and expecting one to get an external flash esp on the Pen )

regarding 620 vs the Pen - I think these are the differences

620 -
  • OVF
  • AF adjustment ( I suspect some feel this is invaluable )
  • articulated screen
PEN
  • No VF for Ep1
  • Pricey but good EVF for E-p2 & E-pl1
  • TruePic V is definitely a better imaging engine
  • all Pens have a lighter anti aliasing filter than the 620 ( iirc) - the e-pl1 has a very very light one
  • Shadow noise better controlled than 620/E-30
  • Very Lightweight option with the m.z lenses
  • Balance with HG/SHG I think would be hopeless
  • Balance with regular 4/3 40-150 suprisingly good
For my use - I am wondering as an enthusiast, if I should just add a flash for my pen and sell the 520 - but can't make up my mind... esp given that I dont have any HG/SHG lenses.

Good luck with your search and purchase

[EDIT]

A couple of pics from my pen from a recent walk around for your reference if it helps. You can find more in my gallery





[EDIT]

Tx
Vidya
 
NewOly520User said:
Hi Roel/Christina

Here are my 2c

My first DSLR was a E520 and I still think the overall photo at lower ISO esp colours are very good out of this camera and has a special texture/feel to it. Low light/High iso is quite disappointing from my view but its a known story and DR too.

I got a EP1 as my bday gift this year ( one year on after the 520 ) and I have to say I am blown away by its IQ especially in low light. I think DR is also better than the 520.

However the colours and texture are slightly different ( I think this is true of the 620 and E-30 also ) with the new 12mp sensor and True pic IV/V imaging engine. The high iso files respond well to pushing as well in Oly viewer or LR...

However, when it comes to focussing, I use the Pen with the m14-42 which is an ok focusser - about half the speed of my 4/3 14-42 on the 520 and the 40-150 (adapted via MMF1) isnt bad but not super quick. I have heard good things about the m.9-18 and the 17mm pancake but do not have them.

Low light focussing revelations from a recent experience shooting an indoor event. The 520 with 40-150 & 14-42 was hopeless in an indoors mixed light situation ( kids bday ). While the Pen wasn't fast the CDAF atleast focussed but both were beaten by compact cameras with an AF-assist ( not joking - very serious here - I think manafacturers are making a big mistake by omitting this simple feature and expecting one to get an external flash esp on the Pen )

regarding 620 vs the Pen - I think these are the differences

620 -
  • OVF
  • AF adjustment ( I suspect some feel this is invaluable )
  • articulated screen
PEN
  • No VF for Ep1
  • Pricey but good EVF for E-p2 & E-pl1
  • TruePic V is definitely a better imaging engine
  • all Pens have a lighter anti aliasing filter than the 620 ( iirc) - the e-pl1 has a very very light one
  • Shadow noise better controlled than 620/E-30
  • Very Lightweight option with the m.z lenses
  • Balance with HG/SHG I think would be hopeless
  • Balance with regular 4/3 40-150 suprisingly good
For my use - I am wondering as an enthusiast, if I should just add a flash for my pen and sell the 520 - but can't make up my mind... esp given that I dont have any HG/SHG lenses.

Good luck with your search and purchase

[EDIT]

A couple of pics from my pen from a recent walk around for your reference if it helps. You can find more in my gallery





[EDIT]

Tx
Vidya
Click to expand...
A very big thank you Vidya, for giving such a thorough and comprehensive reply, with an excellent example too. I'll have a good look at your gallery after lunch !

Your Pros and Cons are very accurate, and your point on the Truepic V being a better imaging engine is one that I have considered too.
( It would be great if this was available in the DSLR's - surely soon ? )

It's very disappointing that this is let down by slow focussing, especially if you're outdone by compact point and shoot cameras - very embarrassing !
I can't help feeling that HG lenses wouldn't balance so well on the PEN too.

Trying to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of each system isn't easy.

I wish you good luck and good shooting too with your E-P1 ! :)

Best wishes,
Christina

--
My Gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23773763@N07/

UK Photo Safari Group (International Member)
( http://www.ukphotosafari.org/ )

 
Nothing wrong with the E620 but if your E510 is working I would use it. I upgraded from the E520 to the E30 but I am giving the E520 to my daughter.
 
I've had a ball with my EP1. In fact, the PL25 has pretty much been permanently attached to it. Focus speed is quite good (after the firmware upgrades), the overall package is still very portable, and it's so utterly discreet.

IQ is as good or better than the E3 (though I prefer the E3's ISO 800, it looks 'warmer'), the level indicator is priceless for using the 7-14, and the 50M sits on it nicely without making the entire package much larger.

It's a real pleasure to leave the ball and chain of a heavy camera bag behind, for those times when you don't want photography to dominate your whole day. I wouldn't ditch the E3 for it, but the two work very well together.

Oh, and one other reason to give a Pen consideration, that you will appreciate: Leica M. Lovers of fine glass, it doesn't get any better than that, and the older M glass is attractively priced.
 
It's the lighter, SG ZD lenses, the later models, that are CDAF optimized. Of course, you're dealing with slower glass, so you have to work a bit harder. If you have the later 14-54II, it is also CDAF optimized. The later PL 14-50, the slower one that no one wants so it sells cheap when you find it, is CDAF enabled. Not sure about the PL14-150, but that is not a small lens. Or cheap.

Even the slow kit lens isn't that slow to focus. It's useable, just not lightning quick. Rabid fanboy chatter has blown that out of porportion. What sold me on the Pen was seeing one in a camera store. Beautifully made, a jewel to hold, and when I tried the focus, I thought, well it isn't that bad

I'm also mostly an owner of the intermediate HG glass (plus 7-14), and just love it. The 50M and PL25 are short and light enough that they don't pose any handling problems on the Pen. 50-200 can be used, but AF is slow and can be clumsy to handle.

I have no regrets about getting the EP1 (other than wishing I had the EVF, but just don't have the $$$ to upgrade right now). It's not a replacement for a 4/3 setup, at least for me, it's a powerful addition that extends the system.
 
TrapperJohn said:
It's the lighter, SG ZD lenses, the later models, that are CDAF optimized. Of course, you're dealing with slower glass, so you have to work a bit harder. If you have the later 14-54II, it is also CDAF optimized. The later PL 14-50, the slower one that no one wants so it sells cheap when you find it, is CDAF enabled. Not sure about the PL14-150, but that is not a small lens. Or cheap.
Click to expand...
From what I understand about CDAF, I believe it works with small incremental focus corrections in both directions (very fast of course), until the point is reached where focus does not improve anymore. So if I understand this correctly, the lens starts at a certain point and goes looking for focus in one direction, overshoots focus with a certain margin, then corrects in the other direction, overshoots again, corrects again but with a smaller margin than before and so on.

Such a process may be just harder to do with the SHG lenses that (being faster) have a lot more glass (weight, mass, ..) to move for every focus adjustment.

(I've also noticed that I get a lot less mileage from my batteries in terms of amount of images, when using large SHG glass as opposed to physically smaller lenses. Maybe the actual size and weight of the lenses does not only affect battery life, but maybe the motors are just not up to moving all that glass in all those corrective movements, and maybe this is much easier to achieve with physically smaller and lighter lenses.)
TrapperJohn said:
Even the slow kit lens isn't that slow to focus. It's useable, just not lightning quick. Rabid fanboy chatter has blown that out of porportion. What sold me on the Pen was seeing one in a camera store. Beautifully made, a jewel to hold, and when I tried the focus, I thought, well it isn't that bad

I'm also mostly an owner of the intermediate HG glass (plus 7-14), and just love it. The 50M and PL25 are short and light enough that they don't pose any handling problems on the Pen. 50-200 can be used, but AF is slow and can be clumsy to handle.

I have no regrets about getting the EP1 (other than wishing I had the EVF, but just don't have the $$$ to upgrade right now). It's not a replacement for a 4/3 setup, at least for me, it's a powerful addition that extends the system.
Click to expand...
All the rest that you write here, sounds very good to me.

--
Roel Hendrickx

lots of images : http://www.roelh.zenfolio.com

my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html
 
The E-510 easliy produces superior images as far as sharpness is concerned. In fact it was the last of the sharp E-series cameras until the E-PL1 arrived. You could buy the latter - but is it easy to take sharp macro shots using the rear screen to focus? I don't know, although this guy at least has taken some superb shots:

http://www.pbase.com/allonkira/olympus_ep1_photos
 
Gigi B said:
TrapperJohn said:
The slow focus is tied to an all too inexpensive kit lens. When I put my CDAF optimized PL25 on my EP1 with the most recent firmware upgrades to both, it focuses at darn near E3 speed. Reports online are that the MZD 9-18 and 40-150 are very speedy focusers. Downside is - most of the HG and above ZD lenses aren't CDAF optimized. The Pen's tiny battery struggles with the 50-200. But, with proper glass, focus speed is quite adequate.

And it's definitely light. A Pen is a terrific addition to a 4/3 camera bag. It opens up some new horizons while sacrificing nothing in image quality or capability. People just don't notice it, whereas the E3 with HG glass is definitely an attention getter. Candids are, well, more candid. Plus, the build quality... if you love the E1 and E3's rock solid feel, the Pen feels much the same.

It's a camera you're very likely to keep, even after you're back to full strength. I wouldn't give up my E3 for the Pen, the tiny body just doesn't handle well with large glass on it. But, it's a superb option to have, especially for those times when you don't want to drag the full rig out and be tagged as 'that camera person'.
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Hi TrapperJohn,

Your comprehensive reply is much appreciated, and your viewpoint as an E-3 shooter is very helpful.
An E-3 with HG glass certainly isn't a discrete candid camera.

I only have the pro glass, sadly I don't have the muscles or the cash for the HG !

I'm glad you're happy with your PEN, and it's pleasantly surprising to read that the MZD 9-18 and 40-150 are speedy focusers, and even better that there is no sacrifice of image quality or capability.

I've been researching the E-P2, but was discouraged by reports of slow focus speed.

You've given me plenty to think about... :)

Best wishes to you,
Christina

--
My Gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23773763@N07/

UK Photo Safari Group (International Member)
( http://www.ukphotosafari.org/ )

Click to expand...
My experience with the E-P2 has been very very positive with regard to the AF speed. I was especially happy with the FW upgrade as it provided an incredible boost of speed. It is a wonderful camera, especially with the Lumix 20mm on it.
--
Best regards,
Jeff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuikoarts
http://www.zuikoarts.com
http://www.zuikoarts.posterous.com
 
it's how the camera communicates with the lens. PDAF uses parallax to establish a distance to target, tells the lens to focus to a certain point, then fine tunes. CDAF, like you said, is more trial and error overall.

PDAF only lenses just aren't set up for the camera to start and stop the motor a lot. CDAF lenses are, more a limitation of the existing lens firmware than anything. And, apparently, it's more than just instructions, the circuitry has to be a bit different.

So my understanding is that the CDAF optimization is more related to lens circuitry design and communications protocols than it is the weight of the moving elements. Panny got the later PL14-50 to CDAF fairly quickly, and it's about the size of a 14-54. The fact that the SG ZD glass has CDAF may be related to the fact that LV/CDAF focusing tends to be used more on the low end cameras than it does on the E3 or E30.
 
Hi Christine;

I too am a woman photographer. I love my E-3, but sometimes wish I had a lighter camera at those times I don't need the robust/water resistant build I will be curious to see what the choices are for you.

Mostly though, I just wanted to wish you well, and the hope that your healing is fast and that you can return full steam to doing what you love.

Warm Regards from California,
Lory
 
Thanks for your reply Michael.
Michael M Fliegel said:
Nothing wrong with the E620 but if your E510 is working I would use it.
Click to expand...
I have a suspicion my husband would agree with you ! :)

I took the E-510 with the 25mm pancake, for a walk along the beach yesterday afternoon.

I must admit I did enjoy using it again, although by the end of the walk even that was starting to feel a little heavy, maybe because I went much further than usual trying to get good compositions, and waiting for the best light !
Michael M Fliegel said:
I upgraded from the E520 to the E30 but I am giving the E520 to my daughter.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you're enjoying your E-30.

Best wishes to you,
Christina

--
My Gallery:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23773763@N07/

UK Photo Safari Group (International Member)
( http://www.ukphotosafari.org/ )

 
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