CR2 files,Help with how to embed the changes with either DPP or ACR

[OhioBowhunter]

I have a Canon Camera and can shot CR2 files as well as JPG. I was doing some experimenting to see which software program I would use to process the Raw files. Here is what I found out.

File: CR2 (raw file)
ACR software via bridge/PSc5.

I could not figure out any reason why I would want to let ACR make a xmp file for every CR2 file I had so I changed the setting to "save in camera raw database" rather then saving it as a sidecar .xmp. When making changes to the files this way, all the information seems to be saved somewhere, but I have no idea where. I did not notice an difference in the way bridge functioned as compared to saving it in the xmp files. Should I have to reformat my HD in the future, I would not have to copy or save all the xmp files as well.

Here's the issue: if I take a cr2 file, view it with bridge, open it with ACR, set the exposure to - 3 to make the image look very dark, click done, close acr and bridge. When I open bridge again and view the file, it looks very dark as expected, I can open acr and see that the exposure is still set to -3 for this file. Good right???

Issue is...when I open the file in say, Canon's DPP software, it shows the original exposure setting of 0. I can move the exposure to -2 this time, close DPP, open DPP again, and the exposure is still at -2. Great...???

NO...because if I open up the same file with ACR, it once again shows the exposure set to -3.

If I go further and open it in another program, it will look like the original exposure and ignore any ACR or DPP changes I made. If I open it with Micosoft picture viewer using a cr2 codec, I again get the original picture.

Given this...it seems that regardless the "view" in ACR, DPP, or Bridge, it I were to uninstall that particular program, the exposure adjustments I made would be lost.

Maybe I'm missing something...best I can figure is the simple answer is NO, you can not alter the CR2 file unless you save it as something else. And I will have to remember that what I see on my computer when using say....Bridge, is not what someone else would get if I sent them the cr2 file. Or for that matter, the same cr2 file opened by me on my computer using ACR and DPP (with the exposure set differently for the same file, will look different.) My head is spinning from all the possible options.

Help is greatly appreciated.

 

[cybrid]

Nope, you cannot alter the .cr2 file directly.

That is your negative, you want to keep it as is. This way you can always go back to the original if you want/need to start all over.

Each program does/keeps it's RAW alterations in different ways, thus you cannot read DPP changes in Lightroom (or ACR or Bridge etc....). Proprietary Formats is the term. Every one wants to have it their own way and everyone else is wrong.

Best plan, pick one RAW converter and stick with it.

--
http://www.abstractionisms.com

 

[lumigraphics]

A RAW file is read-only and cannot be changed. Your changes have to be saved to another file someplace- either XMP sidecar files or a program database.

If you save the image out to another format (PSD or TIFF) then you can make and save changes within the file.

 

[OhioBowhunter]

Thanks for the info, even though I don't like the answer.

Now...as far as this database goes.....

is there any advantage to using the sidecar .xmp vs the software database? I would imagine I could take (copy along with the cr2 file) all the xmp files, then say build a new computer, install Bridge, and the metadata would all be there including keywords, stars, authors, etc. That is ....assuming Adobe doesn't obsolete the xmp file format in say PS CS9.

I did a search and found that Bibble, Photomatrix, Geotag, and others use xmp files, but I would also guess they are not compatible with each other.

Given all this, and the fact that I have turned off sidecar xmp files (guess I could turn it back on), what specific file does adobe update so that if I rebuilt the computer, I could copy the cr2 files over to the new system, then copy ??? file to the ??? adobe directory, and have it all be there. If you know, that would be great. If not, I will go ahead and try to figure it out. I am running win7 64 bit, so the folders are different from xp.

edit.......Ignore the last paragraph....
....found this link to explain the adobe database...others might find it useful
http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=550

Thanks again for the info.

 

[suddie1215]

That's not entirely true.

The "image data" in a RAW file cannot be changed; however, the metadata that describes how the image data appears when viewed can easily be changed. Canon's Digital Photo Pro software writes its metadata changes directly to CR2 RAW files. However, the method and language used is publicly disclosed.

Adobe has a different philosophy in that they don't allow any modification (other than metadata changes like Time Taken) to RAW files. So when using Adobe software the options are either to save the changes to a central database or to XMP files.

A RAW file is read-only and cannot be changed. Your changes have to be saved to another file someplace- either XMP sidecar files or a program database.

If you save the image out to another format (PSD or TIFF) then you can make and save changes within the file.

 

[suddie1215]

XMP is a publicly available standard so XMP files created in one application will be readable in any other application capable of interpreting the files.

Thanks for the info, even though I don't like the answer.

Now...as far as this database goes.....

is there any advantage to using the sidecar .xmp vs the software database? I would imagine I could take (copy along with the cr2 file) all the xmp files, then say build a new computer, install Bridge, and the metadata would all be there including keywords, stars, authors, etc. That is ....assuming Adobe doesn't obsolete the xmp file format in say PS CS9.

I did a search and found that Bibble, Photomatrix, Geotag, and others use xmp files, but I would also guess they are not compatible with each other.

Given all this, and the fact that I have turned off sidecar xmp files (guess I could turn it back on), what specific file does adobe update so that if I rebuilt the computer, I could copy the cr2 files over to the new system, then copy ??? file to the ??? adobe directory, and have it all be there. If you know, that would be great. If not, I will go ahead and try to figure it out. I am running win7 64 bit, so the folders are different from xp.

edit.......Ignore the last paragraph....
....found this link to explain the adobe database...others might find it useful
http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/?p=550

Thanks again for the info.

 

[OhioBowhunter]

I set the raw feature in adobe back to create xmp file. Then did another test. Took a cr2 file, opened it with acr, set exposure to -3, did not save anything but left it that way in bridge. So now when I view the file in bridge, it shows it at -3 and very dark and an .xmp file exists in the folder for that file.

Now I take the same (original) cr2 file, open it with DPP and set exposure to -2, save it as a CR2 file and give it a new name.

Then, open bridge back up to view the 2 files. The first one, which I modified with acr and set to -3 shows the file in bridge as very dark....good. The second file where I set the exposure to -2 in DPP, does not look dark, it looks exactly the same as the original file. No changes were made.

In fact, the original cr2 file IF opened with DPP first and then saved as a .cr2 file, then opened in bridge, does not even show any "raw" info in the metadata tag. Not until I make a change in ACR and click done, does the raw info for the file show up. Either DPP is doing something wrong when writing the new cr2 file, or Bridge is doing something wrong when reading the new file, but there is not compatibility between the two. Third, view the files with windows 7 and no changes are seen in either of the files (in full view or thumbnail).

I could and will live with just one raw converter (acr vs dpp), but it sure would be nice to at least be able to view it with explorer, rather then having to open bridge every time. When grabbing files for something, I will generally use explorer, but because I am not really seeing what I am grabbing, I will have to use bridge for that simple function as well.

I think I have beat this dog enough...

 

[padman0008]

The problem with storing changes to raw files in a central database is that that information is NOT available on another computer. Sidecar files (.xmp) are usually invisible files (depending on how the preferences of your operation system are set), that are "usually" automatically sent with the CR2 file when it is copied or moved. But sometimes they are not copied and all your changes are lost.

IMHO, a better solution is to convert all raw files to Adobe "dng" (digital negative) files. These files store the changes to the raw data in the header of the file. So you don't have to worry about losing sidecar files or corrupting central database files. DNG files are also normally slightly smaller. About 80% to 90% of most CR2 files.

The dng converter is a free download for the Adobe web site. Except for action shots, I only shoot raw files. I always convert them to dng when I download them.

There are other advantages to dng files. Do a Google search and read about them.