Charging for a framed print. What mark-up?

[John35198]

I always knew that framing was the most expensive part of artwork.

So, let's say you have a print. You want to do a gallery wrap 16x20, or whatever size. To have it printed on canvas is around $30, floater frame, around $50, stretcher bars, around $15, shipping charges around $30, your time to stretch the canvas (or pay to have someone else do it) So you're up to $125 plus your time. Then there is the price for the print. What do you charge for that? How much do you mark-up the framing?

No wonder a thread started that prints are dead!

For a wedding photographer it is simple to include it in the cost of a package. Yet the cost gets high! A reputable Pro Lab charges easily over $200 for a quality album. What's a standard mark-up?
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John M Samuels

 

[Richard Katris]

industry standard markup used to be 7X cost. Today with more widely available products that the consumer can buy themselves...there is the perception that this is excessive. They are however buying content...not the materials to make that content. IF the 7x markup seems absolutely unreasonable to you or your client ...point out to them that they disk they buy their OS on for their computer costs maybe $0.15 to make...the box and materials it comes in far more than the disk....but that they pay in excess of $100 for that disk and do not complain......what is that markup?? in %? at least 20X.

I think today standard industry markup may have slipped to 5X, but I think that is still a more than reasonable amount to charge....
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Richard Katris aka Chanan

 

[BigPixel]

If considering fine art prints, double at minimum the cost of materials and labor to matt/frame an image above your print cost.

In other words, if you sell an unframed 20"x30" fine art print for $200, charge $200 plus double the cost of framing.
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BigPixel / Hawaii

 

[PenguinPhotoCo]

industry standard markup used to be 7X cost.

I think today standard industry markup may have slipped to 5X, but I think that is still a more than reasonable amount to charge....
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The medical industry?

In the photography industry you caculate your cost - product and time and mark that up 2.5 to 3.3. Framers often markup the frame 4 to 5 times to cover their labor.

PPA benchmark study says the cost of goods (as calculated above) should be about 30% of sales.

The 'cost' of labor to edit an image is the same whether it's put on a 29 cent 4x6 or $100 canvas. You can't markup that canvas 7x ever and you had better markup that 4x6 a lot.
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If I knew how to take a good picture I'd do it every time.

 

[PenguinPhotoCo]

You need to figure out your cost for an image.

I have a big fancy spreadsheet that works it out somthing like this

Session is an hour. From that I get 40 images to show a client. I also need 15 minutes to get ready and 45 minutes after to DL/backup and proof edit those images. That's 2 hours to make 40 images. "Time" value of that is $15/hour (i can hire someone for that price so that's what the job costs me for this method).

To sell takes another hour. To final edit and order an image 25 minutes (sit at computer, start PS, find images, edit, save, move to order folder, upload to lab, get package in from UPS, open it, toss the trash, repack images for delivery.) Cost of packaging is 1.25. You may also have costs in a cd, price brochure, how to dress for your portrait brochure, etc. Say $4 in misc costs.

That's 3.5 hours plus $9.35 (the 8x10 they bought) Most pro labs ship free or have a minimal order 'fee' of $2. 3.5 hours at $15 is $52.50 plus the $9.35 means the COST of the first print is $61.85. And you have nothing in there to cover your gas, gear, computer, insurance.....You probably got a session fee that can go toward that a bit.

If you 3X that you get a price of $185 for an 8x10. Not gonna sell too many at that price, huh?

You only make money if you sell many images/prints from a session. Most of the time involved changes very little if they but 10 images right? The lab's shipping, the backup time, your packaging remain the same.

The problems arise when say you want to sell a keychain or mug or mousepad. The 'cost' of $61.85 is the same, but nobody's gonna pay $180 for a mousepad!

So what happens is you sell an 8x10 for $90 and markup a mousepad to $25 and try like hell to sell them the wall canvas for $295. If they buy one of each say, then you get $410. Costs are the products ($115 or so) and $60 for the first image and 10 minutes edit time for each additional pose, say $7.50 for a full 30 minutes, or $182.50. You got $410 plus $50 session fee for $460. That just about works out OK. You can remain in business for another day!
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If I knew how to take a good picture I'd do it every time.

 

[gnius]

industry standard markup used to be 7X cost.

I think today standard industry markup may have slipped to 5X, but I think that is still a more than reasonable amount to charge....
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The medical industry?

Oh please. Most hospitals that ARE profitable get by on 1-3% margins.

 

[RDKirk]

PPA benchmark study says the cost of goods (as calculated above) should be about 30% of sales.

It should be mentioned that figure is reverse-calculated. When you divide studios between the upper half that are doing well and the lower half that are doing less well or poorly, all those in the upper half are keeping their costs to no more than 30% of their sales.

Now, that is for home studios, by the way (including homes designed from the ground up or heavily modified to be studios--any location where the photographer manages to have only one location where he both lives and works). For photographers who have separate studio locations, those in the upper half are keeping their costs below 25% of sales.

This could mean that some items are loss-leaders and other items have huge profit margins. But it does not mean that they simply "marked up" by 30%. It means they price according to what they need to make and according to what they can sell their products for, and then ruthlessly reduce their costs.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

 

[RDKirk]

After doing all that spreadsheet work, I determined long ago that I needed to gross at least $300 from an average portrait session just to break even .

Certainly, though, I could not charge $300 for a single 8x10 and expect clients to be happy. Some photographers charge or advertise a low session fee "to get them in the door" and then hard-sell like heck to reach a profitable sale.

However, I could produce a 16x20, put it in a half-way decent frame, throw in a couple of 8x10 prints in folders for only a few dollars more and I could sell that for $500. So I set a 16x20 as my minimum package. Since then, I've raised that price substantially and managed to keep costs at bay.

This also has another effect: I don't have a session fee. In the initial consultation, I point out my minimum package. If the client agrees, then we both know what the minimum money will be. They pay me half of that up front. It's not a session fee, it's half the fee for what they've already agreed to purchase (although I do have a money-back guarantee if everything goes south).

At the preview session, they will either go with the minimum or order more. I'll collect the balance on delivery.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

 

[RDKirk]

When my mother had brain surgery in 2001, they fitted her with a leather helmet--it looked much like the old-fashioned leather football helmets. It was lined with felt and I noted that it was made in Korea.

In the bill, the hospital charged $2000 for that leather helmet. I doubt very seriously the medical supply paid more than $50 for it.

At any rate, since we were in SW Oklahoma, I went to a local saddle shop and asked them how much it would cost to have such a helmet custom made. They quoted me $500. So I could have had a custom helmet locally made for only a quarter of what the hospital charged.

Yes, I know hospitals have a huge amount of unreimbursed expenses. But those should not be hidden in overcharges for everything else. A Tylenol pill should not be priced at $5.00 to cover emergency room costs for indigents. They should invoice items at their true costs and add an "unreimbursed expenses" surcharge to the bottom of the invoice so that we see what we're dealing with.

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RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

 

[Vegasluvr]

Images of scenery such as what would be displayed in an office building, we charge about $600 for a 16x20 framed image. Anything larger, we print on a wide format printer. Last week we did a custom sized 8 foot wide by 5 foot framed image for $1,800.

For a new photographer or someone who is not in fine arts, I would not charge more than 150% of your cost. I would also not advise to nickel and dime your clients because you will find you will lose clients that way. Price your product with one set price. Add up your costs and mark it up 150%.

 

[PenguinPhotoCo]

Not a bad idea.

I've seen some photogs have a higher than normal session fee with it all credited to prints/package. I've found that to be a hard sell. I think some of it depends on your market and rep - if you're "the" family photographer in town you can get away with that concept more easitly than if you new to the market.

I've had pretty good luck giving past clients a free family session and 8x10 and then allow them to buy whatever.
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If I knew how to take a good picture I'd do it every time.

 

[RedFox88]

I always knew that framing was the most expensive part of artwork.

So, let's say you have a print. You want to do a gallery wrap 16x20, or whatever size. To have it printed on canvas is around $30, floater frame, around $50, stretcher bars, around $15, shipping charges around $30, your time to stretch the canvas (or pay to have someone else do it) So you're up to $125 plus your time. Then there is the price for the print. What do you charge for that? How much do you mark-up the framing?

No wonder a thread started that prints are dead!

Art buyers understand that framing or having a print framed is an expensive and time consuming process. This is why they will pay to make their lives easier by buying a nicely framed print from a single source. Often if you buy just a print, it may sit around until you actually drag yourself to frame it or give it to someone to frame.