Metal Vs plastic

AnaDigi

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I don't understand why people are so concern about the boday is plastic or metal.

If it is a FF(big) or camera for journalists then I understand metal may be better.
Ask youself, how many people treat their cameras like babies?
Feeling bad if they find a tiny scratch.
Keep looking for the best bags for protection.
When upgrade their cameras, the outdated cameras are still looking very new.
Do you think metal or plastic matter to you?
I think it is very interesting!
 
Why would you care about what others think?

--

Phil .. Panasonic GH1 (14-140, 7-14, 20 f/1.7, 45-200); Oly E-PL1 (14-42); Canon 40D, S90
http://www.pbase.com/phil_wheeler
 
It is an overblown issue for some, for sure. I fall into the camp of babying my stuff.

That said ..if I did drop my 'Baby', I would hope that it would survive the drop. Most of the plastics being used today are pretty tough, and they sure will not dent like metal will ...possibly actually absorb the impact better.
 
yes it does matter, but not in a fashion as " metal vs plastic " more like " usage and utilization " , ultimately a camera is just a tool, well a complex one at that, and one that must be able to deliver the result when asked to do its duty under whatever condition the photographer might be having to deal with.

Metal vs plastic is not the issue, the issue is whether it stand up to the usage ... sadly speaking many of today's are much less well build than their price should be delivering .. call it a consumer electronic phenomena, but in any case they are just not build well enough ..
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  • Franka -
 
Knowing it's metal makes me feel better. But it's just me.
 
yes it does matter, but not in a fashion as " metal vs plastic " more like " usage and utilization " , ultimately a camera is just a tool, well a complex one at that, and one that must be able to deliver the result when asked to do its duty under whatever condition the photographer might be having to deal with.

Metal vs plastic is not the issue, the issue is whether it stand up to the usage ... sadly speaking many of today's are much less well build than their price should be delivering .. call it a consumer electronic phenomena, but in any case they are just not build well enough ..
--
  • Franka -
  • Agree, and it depends on the plastic quality, and build quality even in metal
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication
 
I can't remember where that a guy disassembled the Ep1 long time ago right before it came out.
It is plastic inside with the metal outer shell/
 
Metal tends to weigh more than plastic and there may be the deciding factor for some people. When a camera is heavier, it MAY be easier to hold still.....maybe not.

I wonder if certain plastics are more durable than metal? Guess it would depend on thw type of plastic. Too bad we didn't have someone on the board who wanted to experiment and drop their camera, then buy the other and drop it to test it's shatterability! Oh well....dreaming, I guess.

Then we'd have to talk about the surface it was dropped onto. Geesh! It never ends, does it?!

Beth
--
Story Hour Photography
'Life's a story. Let us illustrate it!'
http://www.pbase.com/cokids/ or
Blog: http://storyhourphotography.blogspot.com/
 
I solved my doubts about Oly's plastics once that my 410 was tethered to the laptop, and I moved the latter, dropping the camera from the table to a hard stone floor.

The metal filter was dented, but the lens and camera didn't suffer any damage. In fact the camera is fiberglass so should stand any impact much better than metal, while being lighter.

Preference for metal is just and old prejudice, like people who try to discriminate cameras according to their being assembled in Japan or China. They are simply clueless.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
I've done a fair amount of work in the RC car, plane, etc. hobby world and most hobbyists will tell you that metal doesn't always equal 'better' even if it does bring a higher price.

Durability and other qualities really depends on the type(s) of metal. 'Pot' metal is the most frequently used of these, being the cheapest and usually most prone to breakage. Lots of old RC cars use various blends of pot metal for parts like suspension arms, transmission casings, etc. It's basically an alloy of low-temperature melt casting metals like zinc, cadmium, tin, magnesium and others. There's no one set formula and there's a wide range of strength, weight, etc. Some pot metals are fairly strong and some are pretty fragile.

With hobby vehicles sustaining a lot of punishment, manufacturers have tried aluminum (light, bends easily), titanium (light, strong, expensive) and superior composite plastics including nylon blends that yield far higher stress ratings before permanent deformation or breakage. Plastics/composites also tend to not dent or bend and as variable as pot metal can be, so can plastics. Some of the newest 'beginner' RC trucks now come with fiberglass or nylon blended composite parts that are flexible yet strong and resistant to breakage, unlike the pot metals and brittle plastics of decades ago.

You find pot metal in lots of stuff. Older RC cars often used varying blends of pot metal for parts like suspension arms. Over the years, manufacturers have gone to aluminum and then superior composite plastics including nylon blends that yield far higher stress ratings before permanent deformation or breakage. Plastics/composites also tend to not dent or bend.

Most electronic device body metals I've seen have been magnesium alloy, which is one of the 'pot' metals. They're fairly strong, but depending on the composition can dent or bend in ways some plastics might bounce back (or perhaps crack). I know my D100 had a magnesium shell and it did have a hairline crack near the shutter button, almost imperceptible.

On an RC car or truck, nobody would think of a metal body, because it would add too much weight and they take too much punishment. The body is usually meant as a kind of soft plastic (lexan) buffer to protect the electronics inside. Most newer cars have plastic chassis, with some high end options including carbon fiber. All-aluminum RC vehicles are usually scoffed at, because they are heavier than plastic and are much more prone to component bending and deformation because the individual pieces have less shock absorbing ability than plastic. So plastic definitely has its place, as does metal. Servo gears can really benefit from being metal and are usually less likely to strip - cameras use servos as well.

So, metal vs. plastic depends on the metal - and the plastic.
 
--Thank you for posting this photo of the insides of the plastic with metal clad skin E-P1 which I hope others will view to see that is the real arguement of metal vrs plastic with these cameras.

If you were to look at a similar picture of the all metal GF1 you would see that the most critical center part housing the lens mount, sensor, shutter, etc holding them in precise alignment are all milled from a single solid block of stainless steel as illustrated in a PP picture of insides and attached as the body panels to a metal frame.

I don't know why DPR continues to claim in the specs that E-P1 and E-P2 have metal bodies as the picture very clearly shows this is not the case. While the outer plastic shells can be made just as tough as a metal one as more prosumer DSLRs are now using in place of magnesium bodies to reduce cost & time to produce that is not the same as the interior body where EPs using construction similar to that used on most cheaper P&S compacts. Because everything is very compact inside with such a small body and the generally small lens designed for same this is just fine for most people, but I wouldn't personally expect such camera to last anywhere as long or handle larger lenses as my old reliable SLR FM or OM bodies or my DSLR K10 or Kx with metal frames for the matter.

Having an all metal body will become more and more important as people try using these cameras for HD video. Plastic does not conduct heat well from the sensor so must be shut down after only short periods of operation say 7 minutes on most to avoid overheating while no limit with metal body? The GH1 does go longer but that is with a larger body with more air space inside less compacted than the minis and smaller m4/3 sensor compared to APS-C.

I think many camera manufactures are building these camera bodies as cheaply and as fast as they can as a result designed to wear out quicker construction and frankly looking at some of the entry DSLRs out there I am frightened by what appears to me to be very flimsy shells indeed for the very fine mechanical and optical camera components put inside? Just my opinion but in my haste and working in adverse environments I am harder on my equipment than most.

I have accidentally dropped both my FM SLR as well as my tough K10 DSLR accidentally to concrete without damage to them or their metal housed lenses. On the other hand I have had a plastic zoom lens tumble just a few feet to heavy carpet and find the AF made inoperable from the fall!

I also question the adviseability of screwing metal machined screws to attach and hold the lens mount and heavy lens into a plastic thread plastic block?

Plastic may be lighter but then magnesium is not very heavy and the GF1 body is lighter than that on any PEN but probably much of that is due to the IBIS mechanism found in the latter.

Even if the EPs and GFs had equal AF speeds I would probably chose the latter simply because of my preference for its metal body build and the hard use I would subject it to in carrying it with me most of the time. With the 20/1.7 I don't need IS and with Panys zooms I have OIS anyway so IBIS less of a factor even though I wouldn't have a DSRL without it as have in both my 5D and K10 so I probably take its advantages just a bit too much foregranted.
 
--Thank you for posting this photo of the insides of the plastic with metal clad skin E-P1 which I hope others will view to see that is the real arguement of metal vrs plastic with these cameras.

If you were to look at a similar picture of the all metal GF1 you would see that the most critical center part housing the lens mount, sensor, shutter, etc holding them in precise alignment are all milled from a single solid block of stainless steel as illustrated in a PP picture of insides and attached as the body panels to a metal frame.

I don't know why DPR continues to claim in the specs that E-P1 and E-P2 have metal bodies as the picture very clearly shows this is not the case. While the outer plastic shells can be made just as tough as a metal one as more prosumer DSLRs are now using in place of magnesium bodies to reduce cost & time to produce that is not the same as the interior body where EPs using construction similar to that used on most cheaper P&S compacts. Because everything is very compact inside with such a small body and the generally small lens designed for same this is just fine for most people, but I wouldn't personally expect such camera to last anywhere as long or handle larger lenses as my old reliable SLR FM or OM bodies or my DSLR K10 or Kx with metal frames for the matter.

Having an all metal body will become more and more important as people try using these cameras for HD video. Plastic does not conduct heat well from the sensor so must be shut down after only short periods of operation say 7 minutes on most to avoid overheating while no limit with metal body? The GH1 does go longer but that is with a larger body with more air space inside less compacted than the minis and smaller m4/3 sensor compared to APS-C.

I think many camera manufactures are building these camera bodies as cheaply and as fast as they can as a result designed to wear out quicker construction and frankly looking at some of the entry DSLRs out there I am frightened by what appears to me to be very flimsy shells indeed for the very fine mechanical and optical camera components put inside? Just my opinion but in my haste and working in adverse environments I am harder on my equipment than most.

I have accidentally dropped both my FM SLR as well as my tough K10 DSLR accidentally to concrete without damage to them or their metal housed lenses. On the other hand I have had a plastic zoom lens tumble just a few feet to heavy carpet and find the AF made inoperable from the fall!

I also question the adviseability of screwing metal machined screws to attach and hold the lens mount and heavy lens into a plastic thread plastic block?

Plastic may be lighter but then magnesium is not very heavy and the GF1 body is lighter than that on any PEN but probably much of that is due to the IBIS mechanism found in the latter.

Even if the EPs and GFs had equal AF speeds I would probably chose the latter simply because of my preference for its metal body build and the hard use I would subject it to in carrying it with me most of the time. With the 20/1.7 I don't need IS and with Panys zooms I have OIS anyway so IBIS less of a factor even though I wouldn't have a DSRL without it as have in both my 5D and K10 so I probably take its advantages just a bit too much foregranted.
I don't think plastic is a problem for heat because all the notebook are plastic! I have found the E-PL1 is built with pretty strong plastic and is not the same as regular P&S camera plastic.
 
I don't think plastic is a problem for heat because all the notebook are plastic! I have found the E-PL1 is built with pretty strong plastic and is not the same as regular P&S camera plastic.
Plastic is a problem for heat. It acts as an insulator. Notebooks have fans and heatsinks. My Powerbook has an aluminum body which also acts as a heatsink and transfers heat from the internals and into the surrounding air.
 
For me, it's an aesthetic thing. I like using equipment that feels good in my hand. Metal just feels better. Doesn't make it take better pictures. Probably won't resist impact any better than modern plastics. But it makes me happy to feel the cool weight of metal in my hand.
 
I like metal on my cameras for the tactile rigidity, retro look and feel and some heft added in for good handling. I like plastic to reduce some of the weight, reduce cost and it allows for complex ergonomic design. There is nothing terribly wrong about an all plastic camera. Plastics these days can hold up to more abuse in many cases than metal. I just happen to like some metal on my cameras for the reasons noted above. I'm holding out for a m43 cam that has mag-alloy frame, rangefinder like design with built-in EVF from any company that cares to make one (Oly, Panny, Fuji or maybe even Ricoh). If Panny makes a DMC-L1 style camera in m43 I'll buy one tomorrow. Likewise, for the others, even a m43 module on the Ricoh would be OK by me. Just keep some metal in there please.
--
Cheers,
Snowbird_UT
 
If you were to look at a similar picture of the all metal GF1 you would see that the most critical center part housing the lens mount, sensor, shutter, etc holding them in precise alignment are all milled from a single solid block of stainless steel as illustrated in a PP picture of insides and attached as the body panels to a metal frame.
Once again, you seem determined to establish that the Olympus product is inferior. I believe tests have shown IQ and overall camera function is in no way compromised by the 'precise alignment' of the Pen sensor and shutter.

There's a metal frame inside the E-Pens, as well. Maybe not "milled from a solid piece of stainless steel" but metal just the same. Unless someone does a real stress test like they did with the Sony PSP or the new iPad, we simply have no real data on which camera(s) are more durable.
I don't know why DPR continues to claim in the specs that E-P1 and E-P2 have metal bodies as the picture very clearly shows this is not the case.
Because they do - The body shell is metal and there is a metal frame inside. See here:

http://www.insightts.com/blog/?m=20090615
While the outer plastic shells can be made just as tough as a metal one as more prosumer DSLRs are now using in place of magnesium bodies to reduce cost & time to produce that is not the same as the interior body where EPs using construction similar to that used on most cheaper P&S compacts.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. There's no magical 'better stuff' that goes into making a DSLR body vs. a P&S. Bigger sensor, mount for lenses and so forth - but the plastics and servos and IC boards/chips are all made of the same stuff.
Because everything is very compact inside with such a small body and the generally small lens designed for same this is just fine for most people, but I wouldn't personally expect such camera to last anywhere as long... (blah blah neverending sentence, ad nauseum, Panasonic rulez, etc.)
Right, so all P&S cameras are junk and last a week - like the LX3? TZ series?
Having an all metal body will become more and more important as people try using these cameras for HD video. Plastic does not conduct heat well from the sensor so must be shut down after only short periods of operation say 7 minutes...
Um... What? Where do you get this nonsense? So a metal camera taking HD video somehow becomes a heatsink and conducts 'heat' from the sensor, I assume doubling as a hand warmer as well? This is hilarious stuff, brother.
I think many camera manufactures are building these camera bodies as cheaply and as fast as they can
Astonishing! Camera manufacturers building cameras as cheaply as they can. What will the world come to?
I have accidentally dropped both my FM SLR as well as my tough K10 DSLR accidentally to concrete without damage to them or their metal housed lenses.
This must somehow mean the Olympus Pen cameras will shatter when breathed upon, despite their metal bodies and metal inner framing.
On the other hand I have had a plastic zoom lens tumble just a few feet to heavy carpet and blah blah blah ...
Yes, because that's exactly the same as an Olympus Pen camera.
I also question the adviseability of screwing metal machined screws to attach and hold the lens mount and heavy lens into a plastic thread plastic block?
Question away. People have already demonstrated HUGE heavy lenses attached to the Pens.
Plastic may be lighter but then magnesium is not very heavy and the GF1 body is lighter than that on any PEN but probably much of that is due to the IBIS mechanism found in the latter.
Magnesium isn't some magic diamond-tough material, in case you weren't aware. It's referred to as a regular component in 'pot metal' which can be quite flimsy and brittle, as metal alloys go. If we were talking Titanium, that'd be another story.
Even if the EPs and GFs had equal AF speeds I would probably chose the latter
HUGE SHOCK! And this has nothing to do with your fanboy brand bias at all.
 
This isn't a laptop running AC with a CPU reaching 90+ Celsius temps and a video chip doing the same. The GF1 has plastic inside acting as insulation, too. So do most cameras. There's no evidence the Pens are any different from the Panasonics in this regard.
 
This isn't a laptop running AC with a CPU reaching 90+ Celsius temps and a video chip doing the same. The GF1 has plastic inside acting as insulation, too. So do most cameras. There's no evidence the Pens are any different from the Panasonics in this regard.
Don't get so Sensitive. I never said there was any difference between Olympus and Panasonic. I never mentioned Olympus and Panasonic at all. I'm not bashing your EPL1, or saying you made a poor purchase. Frankly, I couldn't care less about what camera you have. Not everybody's a fanboy.

I'm just correcting what AnaDigi wrote about plastic not being "a problem for heat because all the notebook are plastic!"

It'd be nice to be able to make a factual statement without being conscripted into your brand war.

Thank you.
 
The all metal GF1... milled from a single solid block of stainless steel...
I am not an expert in metallurgy or plastics but I am an engineer and I know a little bit about each. This is an interesting topic, because people who know absolutely nothing about the technical aspects of materials have passionate opinions about them. Like the use of "oxygen-free" "monster" cables to attach loudspeakers. All passion, no science.

The quote above is a good example from this thread. The G1 does have a stamped metal piece that encompasses the lens mount, sensor mount and tripod mount, but which designer in their right mind would mill such an open frame? But it sure sounds impressive and "Leica-like".

I played with a metal tennis racket when they were popular, and now I play with a plastic one (everyone does), and I hope no photographer ever treats his camera like I treat my plastic tennis racket, let alone Federer and Nadal, who hit 100 mph balls back with a force that is beyond belief. Their rackets can take it.

Let the camera designers make use of all the modern materials at their disposal. If you are concerned about mechanical quality, look at the switches, buttons and cracks between sections. That is where differences that affect you are relevant.
 

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