EF-S: Here to stay?

[mhz888]

Sorry if this has been posted before, I did do a quick search and didn't really find any threads that were relevant, other than is the "APS-C sensor here to stay?" I think my question is related, but since I'm a relative newbie, maybe there's a subtle difference between what I am asking and what that thread is about.

I'm considering buying some new lenses, going through the Sigma 24-70 vs Canon 24-70 vs 17-55 debate. I suspect most looking for a good "short" lens would go through the same. People rave about all three, and any of them would be better than the crappy 17-85 I bought with the camera (all I could afford at the time). What sticks out to me is the fast that the 17-55 is an EF-S. While this will work on my current 20D and the 7D I'd like to upgrade to, if I ever get more serious, I might want a 5D MKII or better. I suspect those (and anything else with a full frame sensor) don't take EF-S lenses.

If someone could educate me, I'd appreciate it. Specifically:

1.) Do any full frame Canon's take EF-S or are they only for the crop bodies?

2.) Is there any verifiable word from Canon, rumor, or suspicion that EF-S lenses will fit future genrations of cameras or any camera with a full frame sensor (past or present).

The answer to this would maybe sway me a bit away from the 17-55 for versatility and resale value. Feel free to cross link to another thread if this is discussed.
--
-Kevin

 

[Narcosynthesis]

EF-s lenses will only mount on an EF-s body, EF lenses will mount on any Canon EF (both standard EF and EF-s) so the EF-s is restricted to the small sensor bodies.

As for it being here to stay, I think the release of the 7d says something to Canons commitment to the format - I can't see them continuing to release higher end bodies only for them to turn around shortly thereafter and leave the 7d and all the related lenses (10-22, 17-55IS, 60mm macro, etc...) as orphans. If they do decide to drop it, I would expect it to be a gradual process slowly phasing it out as they upgrade the high end stuff to FF.

You also have to consider the price of current FF bodies - the sensor being a major part of the cost, so it is still going to be w while yet before the price decreases enough to fit the larger sensor to a rebel body...

That is only a guess though, nobody knows for sure other than a few people in Canon
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/narcosynthesis
http://www.illaname.deviantart.com

 

[aman74]

Sorry if this has been posted before, I did do a quick search and didn't really find any threads that were relevant, other than is the "APS-C sensor here to stay?" I think my question is related, but since I'm a relative newbie, maybe there's a subtle difference between what I am asking and what that thread is about.

That was the appropriate thread:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=34939543

Noone has a crystal ball, but most will say it's quite obvious it will be around for awhile. Just as likely that a mirrorless format would overtake it before FF does if you ask me. Either way I think FF, APS-C and a mirrorless format would co-exist for quite some time.

I really don't get what the big concern is. Lenses can be sold without too much loss financially, especially if you bargain hunt or buy used in the first place. Only good thing about ebay is that people love to overpay there and you'll get a good amount when selling used if you have an effective listing.

 

[tocar]

Canon has invested a lot on the EF-S system. It's been out for a long time now and is improving.

 

[Mark B.]

Sorry if this has been posted before, I did do a quick search and didn't really find any threads that were relevant, other than is the "APS-C sensor here to stay?" I think my question is related, but since I'm a relative newbie, maybe there's a subtle difference between what I am asking and what that thread is about.

I'm considering buying some new lenses, going through the Sigma 24-70 vs Canon 24-70 vs 17-55 debate. I suspect most looking for a good "short" lens would go through the same. People rave about all three, and any of them would be better than the crappy 17-85 I bought with the camera (all I could afford at the time). What sticks out to me is the fast that the 17-55 is an EF-S. While this will work on my current 20D and the 7D I'd like to upgrade to, if I ever get more serious, I might want a 5D MKII or better. I suspect those (and anything else with a full frame sensor) don't take EF-S lenses.

If someone could educate me, I'd appreciate it. Specifically:

1.) Do any full frame Canon's take EF-S or are they only for the crop bodies?

No. EF-S lenses are specifically for 1.6x crop sensor bodies. If you modified a lens to fit on a full-frame body, it would result in vignetting (shadows in corners). The EF-S mount is meant to result in slightly lighter lens designs.

2.) Is there any verifiable word from Canon, rumor, or suspicion that EF-S lenses will fit future genrations of cameras or any camera with a full frame sensor (past or present).

Of course not. Canon is never going to verify 100% one way or another. The market might look completely different 10 years from now. But in all honesty, there's no reason to believe the EF-S mount is going away any time soon. The 7D is a significantly advanced crop sensor body; if they were going to do away with EF-S, I don't think they would still be releasing bodies with EF-S compatible mount.

The answer to this would maybe sway me a bit away from the 17-55 for versatility and resale value. Feel free to cross link to another thread if this is discussed.
--

Don't worry about what may or may not happen in the future. Get what you want/need today.

Mark

 

[carlk]

It's an advantage for you if your camera can use EF-S lens. By all means take the advantage if that's the lens you need.

 

[photonius]

Sorry if this has been posted before, I did do a quick search and didn't really find any threads that were relevant, other than is the "APS-C sensor here to stay?" I think my question is related, but since I'm a relative newbie, maybe there's a subtle difference between what I am asking and what that thread is about.

I'm considering buying some new lenses, going through the Sigma 24-70 vs Canon 24-70 vs 17-55 debate. I suspect most looking for a good "short" lens would go through the same. People rave about all three, and any of them would be better than the crappy 17-85 I bought with the camera (all I could afford at the time). What sticks out to me is the fast that the 17-55 is an EF-S. While this will work on my current 20D and the 7D I'd like to upgrade to, if I ever get more serious, I might want a 5D MKII or better. I suspect those (and anything else with a full frame sensor) don't take EF-S lenses.

If someone could educate me, I'd appreciate it. Specifically:

1.) Do any full frame Canon's take EF-S or are they only for the crop bodies?

yes, theoretically only for crop. However, some did do modifications to fit on FF.
http://photonius.wikispaces.com/Canon+FD

However, one has to be careful because of the mirror, which can bang into the back of the lens.

2.) Is there any verifiable word from Canon, rumor, or suspicion that EF-S lenses will fit future genrations of cameras or any camera with a full frame sensor (past or present).

On Nikon FF cameras you can mount the crop lenses, you will automatically get a smaller image circle.

The problem with the EF-S mount for Canon is that it reaches further into the camera body. This produces problems with some of the lenses where the mirror could hit the back of the lens (even if you remove the protrusion).

However, for some lenses, it should not be an issue at all, like the 55-250 IS, it doesn't have a far back glass element. They could have actually made it an EF mount.

--
Life is short, time to zoom in ©

 

[mhz888]

Thanks for the advice. Well taken.

The big deal to me is that I've had a lot of trouble selling the turkey lens I bought without getting any advice - on eBay. People tried to defraud me twice, and I've yet to have a single "overpayer" - 2x it didn't sell (maybe because $300 (25%) under new price for an almost new lens isn't enticing enough?). Would rather buy the lens I will want to keep for the long term and get what I paid for out of it. I think that makes sense, no?
--
-Kevin

 

[mhz888]

Thanks to all for the insightful replies.
--
-Kevin

 

[Tarpon6]

People have been asking this same question for 7 years now...
--
Dan

http://www.pbase.com/drimar

 

[gurbally]

Somebody asked this question just this week. Crop body is here to stay because it is not handicapped at the wide end now because of availability of WA lenses. Plus, you get extended reach with tele lenses.

 

[biochemiker]

How much are you asking for your 17-85? It can be purchased new for $390-$445. List price is $600 but almost nobody actually pays that.

The 17-55mm f/2.8 IS is a much better lens from 17-55mm and is also faster. It also seems to be holding its value better than the 17-85. I think EF-S will be around for a long time.

 

[Collett]

Crops are here to stay. The only thing I have to add is that I had crop camera's for about 5 years before going full frame and now find my EF-S lenses and Rebel/20D bodies on the shelf as a backup. Like you, I have not been keen on buying/selling used lenses on Ebay. Prices will continue to drop and it might get hard to pass up on FF. That will not be an issue if you stick with the mid zoom EF lenses (24-70, 28-105, 28-135) and 17-40 or 16-35 on the wide end. That is something I would consider, unless you are sure you will never go FF.

 

[CNY_AP]

It's discussed every month or two. They sell 5 to 10x more EFS cameras than FF, so what format do you think Canon will support?

 

[Cephus]

The crop format is totally adequate for 90+ percent of the DSLR users and most of the DSLR users do not want a larger, more expensive and heavier camera and lens (crop lenses can be made lighter, smaller and less expensive than FF lenses).

What would happen to Canons market share if they drop the crop cameras? Canon will want to be able to continue to offer a line of affordable DSLR that are small, light and capable for new users and more capable cameras that these users can easily graduate to without scrapping all of their lenses. The crop will be with us for a long time.

I can see a potential day when the dedicated crop users could migrate to a FF body but this would not be the majority of users who do not want a more expensive, heavier and larger camera.

Also there is the possiblility that the FF format may get larger in the future.

Get the camera that meets your current needs. I have a 50D and 7D camera and the only crop lenses I have are the 10-22 and 15-85. I plan to go FF but intend to keep a crop camera as backup (can't afford two FF's) and these lenses.

 

[mhz888]

Thanks, Collette. This is exactly the thinking I was going through.
--
-Kevin

 

[Rick Knepper]

unless there is a Canon exec impersonating a DPR member.

The educated guess would be that EF-S lens will still be manufactured at least long enough to outlast your present camera.

 

[Peter 13]

What sticks out to me is the fast that the 17-55 is an EF-S.

Precisely the reason you should choose it over the other two.

While this will work on my current 20D and the 7D I'd like to upgrade to, if I ever get more serious, I might want a 5D MKII or better.

Then you might want the rumored 24-70 IS II or someting else. And ebay is full of people who overpay for used lenses, there is no problem to sell your EF-S lens at a minimal loss (or even a profit).

 

[photonius]

Thanks for the advice. Well taken.

The big deal to me is that I've had a lot of trouble selling the turkey lens I bought without getting any advice - on eBay. People tried to defraud me twice, and I've yet to have a single "overpayer" - 2x it didn't sell (maybe because $300 (25%) under new price for an almost new lens isn't enticing enough?). Would rather buy the lens I will want to keep for the long term and get what I paid for out of it. I think that makes sense, no?

Some lenses make up to 90% of new price, but the problem is that the 17-85, while not gone, has been effectively replaced by the 15-85, so - like the 18-55 non IS - it is a less desirable lens. Canon lenses also keep a better value (than e.g. sigma).

Why don't you use the feature in ebay to look at past auctions to see what prices were reached? Also, it's probably better to start low to attract people, price will come up, often only in the very last day. I was worried for a lens when I was selling it that nobody would bid on it, it still was at only a few dollars before the last day, and in the end it sold for more than I had hoped for.
Follow a couple of lens auctions to get a feel.

--
-Kevin

--
Life is short, time to zoom in ©

 

[HSU]

If someone could educate me, I'd appreciate it. Specifically:

1.) Do any full frame Canon's take EF-S or are they only for the crop bodies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EF-S

2.) Is there any verifiable word from Canon, rumor, or suspicion that EF-S lenses will fit future genrations of cameras or any camera with a full frame sensor (past or present).

Well, nobody really knows, but believe, many would be surprised and angry if Canon would abandon them. There exist many Lenses already (in consumer hand) and Canon is developing new lenses.

Furthermore Canon learnt with the switch from FD mount to the EF in the late '80th, that you should not annoy your user base too much. Many switched to Nikon at that time (seeing their precious lenses being worthless).

Another reason speaking for the APS-C sized Cams is the cheaper price, since producing full-frame silicon sensors is still a challenge, the smallest imperfection of the silicon on the whole sensor surface renders the sensor defective.
Therefore I'd guess, EF-S will stay for quite a time.

The other question is, however, will YOU stick to APS-C sized cams, or do you plan to go FF? If you tend to FF, I'd only by a ultra wide-angle and perhaps a standard zoom for aps-c, and the rest definitely for EF mount only (this route, however is more costly) -- or even go the complete EF-mount road (Sigma 12-24, Canon/Sigma 24-70 f2.8 ... -- but that's for sure costly) .

--
http://www.holger-urbanek.de/