5DMKII Require Higher ISO?

[irememberu]

In between cameras right now, but I got to play around with a 5DMKII recently...

Maybe it's just me, but for some reason, it seems as if I need to increase the ISO on the 5DMKII to take a shot with the EV at 0, compared to my old 30D.

For example, using the 24-105 @ f/4.0, it seems like I'm having to use ISO 640 or 800 whereas on my 30D ISO 400 would have sufficed (to get a decent shutter speed) and using evaluative metering. It's all indoors in my house and the lighting hasn't changed, although I sort of get this feeling outdoors too (when dark or cloudy).

I don't have the 30D anymore to compare, but is this normal or just me? Maybe I'm not remembering the settings on my 30D... I thought I had read somewhere before images on the full frame may be darker due to the sensor and requires more light... am I remembering things wrong? But I'm gonna try it with a friend's 20D to test...

Did a few search, but kind of hard to hit the right keywords, I keep getting results about high ISO performance on the 5DMKII. =P

Just trying to understand this a little... hope someone can help. Thanks!

 

[benalys]

30d and 5D have higher actual ISO values than their indicated one. See the following page,

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d/page20.asp

 

[irememberu]

Thanks, some useful info in that link. While I understand the 5D/5DII tend to underexpose a bit more indoors and the ISO sensitivity is different than that of Nikon's, but it feels like that I needed to bump up the ISO to get the same exposure as the 30D.

What I'm trying to understand is the ISO less sensitive on the 5DII than the 30D/5D? For example, ISO 100 on the 30D/5D is equivalent to ISO 200 on the 5DII?

 

[benalys]

While I understand the 5D/5DII tend to underexpose a bit more indoors and the ISO > sensitivity is different than that of Nikon's, but it feels like that I needed to bump up > the ISO to get the same exposure as the 30D.

According to DPR, 30D and 5D have higher actual ISO sensitivity than 5DII and Nikon's.

What I'm trying to understand is the ISO less sensitive on the 5DII than the 30D/5D? For example, ISO 100 on the 30D/5D is equivalent to ISO 200 on the 5DII?

Yes, comparing to 30D/5D, 5DII looks like under sensitive. But 5DII is not less sensitive than its indicated, say ISO 100 behaves like ISO 100 and ISO 200 like ISO 200. While in 30D/5D case, their ISO100 behaves like ISO125 and ISO200 like ISO250, etc.

 

[irememberu]

Okay, I think I may have found the answer... maybe the 5DII does have less ISO sensitivity..

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_5D_mkii_review_5.html

Incidentally, this plot also shows that at ISO 3200 (indicated), the true ISO of the 5D is 2700 and the true ISO of the 5D MkII is 2133. This means that the 5D is about 1/4 stop slow and the 5D MkII is about 3/5 stop slow. This in turn means that the 5D is about 1/3 stop more sensitive at an indicated ISO 3200 than the 5D MkII is. This difference holds pretty much constant throughout the common ISO range of the two cameras. Again this corresponds to my observation that at the same shutter speed, aperture and ISO setting, the 5D MkII images are slightly darker than the 5D images.

The keyword I was missing in my searches was "sensitivity"... but can anyone else confirm this in their day to day photos?

 

[irememberu]

Thanks - thought I was losing my mind! =)

Yes, comparing to 30D/5D, 5DII looks like under sensitive. But 5DII is not less sensitive than its indicated, say ISO 100 behaves like ISO 100 and ISO 200 like ISO 200. While in 30D/5D case, their ISO100 behaves like ISO125 and ISO200 like ISO250, etc.

 

[benalys]

Good to some extras... Thanks.

 

[RedFox88]

Okay, I think I may have found the answer... maybe the 5DII does have less ISO sensitivity..

I believe that "actual iso" chart from dxo has been widely discredited because it shows iso values being all over the place for all brands and models.

 

[Scales USA]

Canon service can adjust it, if it bothers you, send it in with a complaint.

It is possible that the metering is different on the 5d, and you get different settings.

I haven't noticed it being a problem with my camera. I check the camera histogram to see thats its just overexposing a tiny bit. Since I shoot RAW, this is just right.

 

[DSPographer]

Okay, I think I may have found the answer... maybe the 5DII does have less ISO sensitivity..

I believe that "actual iso" chart from dxo has been widely discredited because it shows iso values being all over the place for all brands and models.

No, the problem is in misinterpreting the DXO chart which is the mistake that the OP made. The ISO that DXO measures is the saturation ISO: having a saturation ISO below the manufacturer ISO just means that the camera has extra highlight headroom when shooting in raw mode- which is a good thing. The Original question concerns what exposure the camera selects for a given ISO which Canon service centers can calibrate. Another point that wasn't asked is how bright the jpeg image appears with the exposure the camera selects. Over time Canon has updated their ISO ratings so the the selected exposures are closer to the standard that a light meter would measure. With old Canon D-SLR models the exposure was often less than you would expect for the rated ISO. So, in that sense a given camera ISO rating used to be more sensitive than the same ISO is now. But, since the noise levels at a given exposure for the same ISO setting are actually lower it really isn't true that the newer cameras are less sensitive.

 

[irememberu]

Thanks folks, basically I'm just trying to figure out if it's indeed true the ISO setting I used on this 5DII is higher than when I used my 30D - due to the ISO sensitivity difference.

I don't have any other cameras to compare the ISO against this 5DII at the moment, so I'm just going by memory.

 

[Trevor Allen]

I think about 3yrs ago by 1/3 stop downwards, if I remember correctly, but did a search & can't find the article. Also Canon used to conservatively rate there Camera ISO value's, I sometimes think we've been conned. In my 20D & DS2 days 3200 iso seemed to work fine, we don't seemed to have made the claimed progress.

Trevor

 

[PhillipA]

.. using manual and setting the 5DII to the same aperture and shutter speed as the 30D for a particular scene and lighting (if you can reproduce it) , use auto-ISO and see what the camera selects and how that compares to the 30D. Also make sure the field-of-view covered by the lens is the same.
--

Judge: ' This image may be better in black and white - perhaps even just black! '

 

[irememberu]

I wouldn't say it's a problem and it doesn't bother me all that much. Just trying to understand the camera more.

 

[landmarks4711589173]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/ (appareil1) 182%7C0 (appareil2) 305%7C0 (onglet) 0 (brand) Canon (brand2) Canon

Open the Tag for Iso sensitivity,
iso400 on D30 sensitivity equal to iso 640 on 5D2

 

[DSPographer]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/ (appareil1) 182%7C0 (appareil2) 305%7C0 (onglet) 0 (brand) Canon (brand2) Canon

Open the Tag for Iso sensitivity,
iso400 on D30 sensitivity equal to iso 640 on 5D2

DXO meaures saturation ISO. That measurement only tells you about highlight headroom. What we care about here is the amount of light needed for a proper exposure: the recommended exposure index or REI which is how the camera ISO is rated. Two very different things.

 

[Dixie1]

Set the 5D Mark II on Auto ISO and let it choose, we also have a 30D with a EF 24-70mm F2.8 USM but, the Mark II is much better in low level light and takes shots at 1/20 and 1/30 sec with blurr

 

[landmarks4711589173]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/ (appareil1) 182%7C0 (appareil2) 305%7C0 (onglet) 0 (brand) Canon (brand2) Canon

Open the Tag for Iso sensitivity,
iso400 on D30 sensitivity equal to iso 640 on 5D2

DXO meaures saturation ISO. That measurement only tells you about highlight headroom. What we care about here is the amount of light needed for a proper exposure: the recommended exposure index or REI which is how the camera ISO is rated. Two very different things.

You mean the ability to give clean image in Shadows Area without vertical Banding when it's pushed.

I agree for that.

The dynamic range measurement on DPR has a flaw, because it does Not measure banding as a noise.

Banding will be interpreted as solid line objects