Frank Patton
Leading Member
This is a message I am copying over from another thread in order to air out this subject. I think it deserves another run of it's own, with it's own header. It was written in regard to selection of a source for a lens, but it got deep into grey market vs USA.
Here is the message I am coping over:
I don't have any "grey phobia" thing in my head at all. I just have 53 years of age, and judgement based on purchase experiences. In fact, I purchased one of my 550EX's grey from HotBuys.com. It actually came with a warranty card that indicated it was good in at least (3) countries, including Canada and the USA.
I didn't know that would be the case when I ordered it, and from what I was told by Hotbuys on the phone later (there was a missing "foot" from the package), that was an exception, not the rule.
Canon, it appears, and I say appears because I have only heard this heresay, honors the USA warranty terms on non-USA "packaged" Canon items (honoring your assessment that only the materials packaged with the equipment is different, not the product). This "if" the owner can produce a receipt showing it was purchased from a USA source. Again this is heresay to me until Canon publishes a statement on a Canon site or on Canon letterhead.
This honor is by "policy". Policy is NOT warranty. Policy can change one minute from now. Warranty can not. Warranty is governed by law (read on below). Any of you who wish can argue with this until you are blue in the face, but you cannot change the laws that govern warranty no matter what you say. Policy is policy, and policy is not governed by law. Warranty is.
That being the case, the "increment" of value to me is this. Increment is an important word here. If I can purchase a true Canon USA whatever from Allen's, or Canoga, or B&H for LESS than the grey market version from Delta, or Hotbuys, or BestPrice.com, etc, then if instead I purchase a higher-priced grey, I am taking some level of risk about Policy vs. Warranty.
If the USA is less. If the USA is the same price. If the USA is somewhat more in price (up to a point), then the answer to this question is an absolute no-brainer. That because of Policy vs Warranty.
Where it becomes a valid argument is based on the "increment". At some point a price difference advantage for grey, when and where it exists, begins to outweigh the Policy vs Warranty question.
You guys can argue about that increment all you want, but if you put (10) of you in a room you will never come out with a unanamous agreement. We each value the increment differently.
I am married to an attorney (she prefers that description over "laywer" as she does not deal in litigation ). Her primary work is with an automotive manufacturer's finance arm. That finance arm markets the manufacturer's own extended service plan product. When the mfr itself markets an extended product it is tied closely to the original warranty. For that reason, she has to stay right on top of warranty law. And I mean RIGHT on top.
Policy is NOT warranty.
Base your decision on the increment.
I'll add one other tidbit here, and read through to the end to see why it is important.
I read last night over on the Galbreith site a message from a Canon engineer. He stated clearly that an item still under warranty, if sold by the original owner to a third party, would no longer have warranty coverage. He quoted the language in the written Canon warranty that spells this out. And it does quite clearly.
In many, if not most states, that language is pretty much worthless, and I will assume from my wife's knowledge that Canon even knows that.
Most states regard the Warranty as coverage by the producer, of the item they produced. The Warranty backs the physical product for defects in materials and workmanship. The warranty does not warrant the purchaser (only the genetic parents are responsible there !).
Sometimes mfr's locate their warranty repair facilities in states that have more general interpretations, and attempt to enforce that kind of language based on the repair location. However when it boils down to it, the Warranty is governed by the state of the purchaser, or the state where the product was sold.
I point this all out for one important reason. If you buy "grey" you are pleading under Policy, not Warranty. If like many of us, you buy and sell (eBay, whatever) to keep current on your equipment, then again on "grey" the Policy vs Warranty question becomes important at the time of re-sale. Where a State might nail a mfr such as Canon for an attempt to judge Warranty coverage after re-sale, there would be NO State juristiction in the case of the "grey" because it is Policy.
Same holds true for you if you purchase a "used" grey. As a 2nd or later owner of a grey Canon (or anyone else) can refuse you all they want and you have nothing to fall back on.
Frank
Here is the message I am coping over:
I don't have any "grey phobia" thing in my head at all. I just have 53 years of age, and judgement based on purchase experiences. In fact, I purchased one of my 550EX's grey from HotBuys.com. It actually came with a warranty card that indicated it was good in at least (3) countries, including Canada and the USA.
I didn't know that would be the case when I ordered it, and from what I was told by Hotbuys on the phone later (there was a missing "foot" from the package), that was an exception, not the rule.
Canon, it appears, and I say appears because I have only heard this heresay, honors the USA warranty terms on non-USA "packaged" Canon items (honoring your assessment that only the materials packaged with the equipment is different, not the product). This "if" the owner can produce a receipt showing it was purchased from a USA source. Again this is heresay to me until Canon publishes a statement on a Canon site or on Canon letterhead.
This honor is by "policy". Policy is NOT warranty. Policy can change one minute from now. Warranty can not. Warranty is governed by law (read on below). Any of you who wish can argue with this until you are blue in the face, but you cannot change the laws that govern warranty no matter what you say. Policy is policy, and policy is not governed by law. Warranty is.
That being the case, the "increment" of value to me is this. Increment is an important word here. If I can purchase a true Canon USA whatever from Allen's, or Canoga, or B&H for LESS than the grey market version from Delta, or Hotbuys, or BestPrice.com, etc, then if instead I purchase a higher-priced grey, I am taking some level of risk about Policy vs. Warranty.
If the USA is less. If the USA is the same price. If the USA is somewhat more in price (up to a point), then the answer to this question is an absolute no-brainer. That because of Policy vs Warranty.
Where it becomes a valid argument is based on the "increment". At some point a price difference advantage for grey, when and where it exists, begins to outweigh the Policy vs Warranty question.
You guys can argue about that increment all you want, but if you put (10) of you in a room you will never come out with a unanamous agreement. We each value the increment differently.
I am married to an attorney (she prefers that description over "laywer" as she does not deal in litigation ). Her primary work is with an automotive manufacturer's finance arm. That finance arm markets the manufacturer's own extended service plan product. When the mfr itself markets an extended product it is tied closely to the original warranty. For that reason, she has to stay right on top of warranty law. And I mean RIGHT on top.
Policy is NOT warranty.
Base your decision on the increment.
I'll add one other tidbit here, and read through to the end to see why it is important.
I read last night over on the Galbreith site a message from a Canon engineer. He stated clearly that an item still under warranty, if sold by the original owner to a third party, would no longer have warranty coverage. He quoted the language in the written Canon warranty that spells this out. And it does quite clearly.
In many, if not most states, that language is pretty much worthless, and I will assume from my wife's knowledge that Canon even knows that.
Most states regard the Warranty as coverage by the producer, of the item they produced. The Warranty backs the physical product for defects in materials and workmanship. The warranty does not warrant the purchaser (only the genetic parents are responsible there !).
Sometimes mfr's locate their warranty repair facilities in states that have more general interpretations, and attempt to enforce that kind of language based on the repair location. However when it boils down to it, the Warranty is governed by the state of the purchaser, or the state where the product was sold.
I point this all out for one important reason. If you buy "grey" you are pleading under Policy, not Warranty. If like many of us, you buy and sell (eBay, whatever) to keep current on your equipment, then again on "grey" the Policy vs Warranty question becomes important at the time of re-sale. Where a State might nail a mfr such as Canon for an attempt to judge Warranty coverage after re-sale, there would be NO State juristiction in the case of the "grey" because it is Policy.
Same holds true for you if you purchase a "used" grey. As a 2nd or later owner of a grey Canon (or anyone else) can refuse you all they want and you have nothing to fall back on.
Frank
