Samsung 245T sharpness and calibration

[simsi]

Hello,

I got a Samsung 245T monitor.

First of all, I must say I am not so happy, but maybe I am doing something wrong. Test is not sharp...it looks like a little bit with halo around. Is that normal? For the moment I am just using a VGA cable, because I still have to buy HDMI/DVI. I am also under Linux, but have observed the same phenomenon under windows. My computer is a laptop, with an ATI Radeon HD2600.

Second....how do I calibrate it? I have a Spyder2, and I am thinking of calibrating it with ColorEyes Display Pro. On the laptop that was easy, there are no settings to choose - but what do I choose on the OSD of the monitor now? Sorry if I am repeating a topic, I read some other threads but just got thoroughly confused.

Thanks!
Simone

 

[NewsyL]

Hello,

I got a Samsung 245T monitor.

First of all, I must say I am not so happy, but maybe I am doing something wrong. Test is not sharp...it looks like a little bit with halo around. Is that normal? For the moment I am just using a VGA cable, because I still have to buy HDMI/DVI. I am also under Linux, but have observed the same phenomenon under windows. My computer is a laptop, with an ATI Radeon HD2600.

Use the tests on the following site to evaluate the monitor. A lot of people here have found the Sharpness test useful with other monitors.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

&nbsp

Second....how do I calibrate it? I have a Spyder2, and I am thinking of calibrating it with ColorEyes Display Pro. On the laptop that was easy, there are no settings to choose - but what do I choose on the OSD of the monitor now? Sorry if I am repeating a topic, I read some other threads but just got thoroughly confused.

You have a bit of a problem here. The Spyder2 puck was not built for wide gamut monitors which the 245T is. It will work fine if the 245T is put into the "sRGB" mode it offers but then you will lose the use of the RGB sliders in the monitors' menus to help with adjusting the calibration profile.

The Spyder3 pucks were built for the newer wide gamut monitors.

In any case, even after calibration with a "wide gamut" calibrator, you're going to notice that the reds and greens are quite vivid in any non-color managed applications like the Windows Desktop, or Picassa, etc. That is just the way it is with wide gamut monitors. For editing in color managed applications like CS3/CS4 they are wonderful if you work with images in the AdobeRGB or ProPhoto color spaces.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[simsi]

Use the tests on the following site to evaluate the monitor. A lot of people here have found the Sharpness test useful with other monitors.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

thanks for the link! indeed described with this method, i can see a wrong sharpness. it seems it is too high. strangely though i can always see the white and black in the center of the circle.

but i don't have a sharpness control in the monitor osd, so i am wondering how i can regulate it?

You have a bit of a problem here. The Spyder2 puck was not built for wide gamut monitors which the 245T is. It will work fine if the 245T is put into the "sRGB" mode it offers but then you will lose the use of the RGB sliders in the monitors' menus to help with adjusting the calibration profile.

The Spyder3 pucks were built for the newer wide gamut monitors.

In any case, even after calibration with a "wide gamut" calibrator, you're going to notice that the reds and greens are quite vivid in any non-color managed applications like the Windows Desktop, or Picassa, etc. That is just the way it is with wide gamut monitors. For editing in color managed applications like CS3/CS4 they are wonderful if you work with images in the AdobeRGB or ProPhoto color spaces.

oh interesting, so i guess i should buy a spyder3? is a huey or something else fine too?

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[NewsyL]

oh interesting, so i guess i should buy a spyder3? is a huey or something else fine too?

If you want to use if for AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB colour spaces then you should get a colorimeter that is optimized for wide gamut.

I strongly suggest either the Spyder3 Elite or the Xrite i1D2.

Both of these models have software which allows you to target custom white luminance values so you can get your brightness at the right level for print matching - avoiding dark (or too bright) prints from post processed images. They have an ambient light feature where the puck measures the brightness of the room you edit in and then suggests a white luminance value to calibrate to as well as a colour temperature.

The Spyder3 Pro also has the ambient light feature but I'm not sure that it has the custom B/W Luminance feature - some posters here have stated that the new "Pro" download supports this but others have said it does not. The feature chart says it does not.

http://spyder.datacolor.com/s3compare.php

Here in Canada, I've seen the Spyder 3 Elite at stores for $299 and the Xrite i1D2 for $399.

You can buy both from "B&H" in New York for a lot less.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/525541-REG/Datacolor_DC_S3EL100_Spyder3Elite_Display_Calibration_System.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465156-REG/X_Rite_EODIS2_Eye_One_Display_2_Colorimeter.html

However, maybe you can check out Simon's in Montreal and see if they have a good deal. I've read many times they are a good camera shop to deal with.

http://www.simonscameras.com/

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[simsi]

ok. i actually saw them on b&h just before and ordered a pro. i am a bit limited in budget, let's hope the new pro download includes that feature. if not i won't die ;-).
i'll sell my spyder2 on ebay or so.

do you have an idea of the sharpness issue? i can't set it in any menu.

 

[NewsyL]

do you have an idea of the sharpness issue? i can't set it in any menu.

Hmmmm..... c'est domage!

Some of the newer monitors, the Dell 2209WA for example, are starting to add a sharpness control.

You may be able to access a sharpness control from what is called the "service menu" - a hidden menu that normally only the repair technicians access. Each manufacturer has it's own sequence of button presses that will bring it up. Certainly the local Samsung service centre would know this but it will cost you $$$ for the visit.

Let me see if I can find it for the Samsung.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[NewsyL]

I could not find a service menu specific to the Samsung 245T.

I did find several references to a service menu for Samsung's line of TN paneled gamers type monitors but 245T users posted it would not work with their monitor.

I found a procedure that does work for my Samsung 215TW monitor.

Before trying it, write down your settings for:

Contrast
Brightness
R ed
G reen
B lue

When I used it it reset my monitor back to default settings.

...........................................

Enter the monitor service menu using the following steps:

a. Enter OSD menu by pressing menu button on monitor.
b. In Picture-> Custom submenu reduce both brightness and contrast to 0.
c. Return to OSD menu.
d. Press and hold the Menu button for 15-20 sec. until the Red menu shows up.

...........................................

To get out of the service menu I had to power off/power up and that is when I saw the settings had been reset to default.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[simsi]

wow, so cool, it works!! )))) you are the best!! i am very sorry that your values got lost in the process. :-(

I actually liked the factory reset, because the monitor is not new and i wanted to at least start from meaningful settings. now it looks a bit better - although maybe not perfect.

The test picture still looks wrong (i actually don't understand completely how it works) - i will have to find out what all those values for the sharpness are and set them....phew.

I went out to buy an HDMI cable today, but with that everything is bad. it switches to 1920x1080, and the desktop is wider in length and shorter in height than the screen - and image quality is terrible. something must be very wrong there. i will google around a bit.

 

[simsi]

hmmm.... do you know what any of these settings means?

In the sharpness menu I can set

HEM HLE GAIN
HEM HLE THR
HEM HDP GAIN
HEM HDP THR
HEM HDP HAELVL
HEM HDP FELVL
ENH OVR GAIN
VDP GAIN
FTEQ GAIN
FTEQ ENABLE

That is for a VGA connection.
I tried HDMI but it looks desastrous. :-(

 

[NewsyL]

hmmm.... do you know what any of these settings means?

In the sharpness menu I can set

HEM HLE GAIN
HEM HLE THR
HEM HDP GAIN
HEM HDP THR
HEM HDP HAELVL
HEM HDP FELVL
ENH OVR GAIN
VDP GAIN
FTEQ GAIN
FTEQ ENABLE

That is for a VGA connection.
I tried HDMI but it looks desastrous. :-(

No idea....

LVL = Level

EQ = Equalization

Just make sure you record all the original settings before changing anything.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[atomaz]

In my experience (I owned the HP 2065 still have Samsung 214T) the signal cable is the most essential for display sharpness (also its uniformity across the panel) and absence of moire. The VGA cable doesn´t assure either. I am convinced you should first provide a DVI cable (I use a 5m DVI cable-t he lenght is obviously not an issue) and still then evaluate the results.

 

[simsi]

hm yeah i thought that too for the cable. i bought an HDMI cable for many dollars, but it is looking horrible, first of all resolution is set to 1920x1080 (i guess because of HD), which makes the picture be narrower in height but larger than the screen in width, and picture quality is just desastrous, very strange, a bit like a TV in closeup, hard to describe.

The point is that i am using the monitor on a laptop, which has no DVI output. should i try an HDMI-DVI adaptor?

 

[simsi]

hmmm...i guess i will have to try around, google didn't say anything.

after reset all values are 0 and the image is sharper than before, so i am advancing.
also, for hdmi and vga connections the parameters there are different.

 

[NewsyL]

I have heard of this before with laptops where the output using HDMI is 1920x1080 and there is nothing you can do about it. There are some here who claim this does not happen.

Just be glad you did not get one with the old 1280x720 resolution.

I'm curious what model laptop you have.

I'm somewhat surprised the 245T is not recoginzing the HDTV resolution and adjusting its' display so that you have a black bar above and below the 1920x1080 image.

When I went from using my monitor via analog VGA to DVI I did not see too much of a difference. Not so much in color balance, more in terms of occasional intermittent artifacts like noise.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[atomaz]

Simone,

before trying any monitor calibration you should resolve the connectivity issue between your laptop and monitor and deliver signal of proper (monitor native) resolution 1920x1200, 60Hz to the monitor.

Your actual HDMI(laptop) - HDMi(monitor) connection should work fine from the hardware point of view. Any additional conversion over adapter would be needless. What you need is to configure the hardware assembly. Solution to your problem obviously lies on the laptop side. Your laptop is "convinced" that you have a HDTV connected. I don´t know your laptop graphics characteristics but I assume it supports dual monitor configuration (as it recognized your second monitor as HDTV). You find that out from your graphics card propertiesDisplay/properties/Settings/Advanced/ or more directly from the graphics card icon on the taskbar. From that spot you can configure your second monitor to proper resolution (1920x1200). You can also determine whether the new monitor is you first or second one. If your laptop supports only single monitor, you should simply adjust the output resolution to 1920x1200 and then switch between the two monitors striking hotkeys, where you try from F1 to F8 for the F1 - it depends on the laptop.

Once you get the proper signal to your new monitor, you can start tweeking or calibrating your new monitor. I use simply the factory default settings with very good results and my monitor (214T) is tack sharp. I believe your monitor shouldn´t require any sharpness tweeking under native resolution.

 

[simsi]

My laptop is a HP Compaq 8510p. It has an ATI Radeon HD2600 and an HDMI and a VGA output.

I have read a bit about this on the net, and they say it is called overscanning and you can set it somewhere in the ATI Catalyst center, but I didn't find anything.

Anyway, what I did was buying an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor!! and it works, resolution correct, and sharpness test passed. From they eye I am not totally sure it's perfect, but the test looks good.

I also got my Spyder3 today....and was not at home...grr ;-). Will have to wait until Monday .

Soon I'll have a perfect monitor! ))

PS: I played around with those sharpness settings, all of them, and they seemed to change almost nothing.

 

[simsi]

Yeah, I think it is the laptop, you are right. But I find no way to set the true resolution. I read it is called overscanning, and somewhere in the ATI catalyst you can set that, but I didn't find anything.

Now I tried an adaptor and it works like a charm because I use the DVI input of the monitor instead of the HDMI input.

 

[simsi]

The second question I had is: where to start from when calibrating?

I did that before only on laptops and there it is easy, because you basically can't set anything ;-).
On the monitor, which things should I set and how before calibrating?
And then with Native White point, and which luminousity?

Also, I heard that ICC profiles are platform-independent - means I can use the profile generated in Windows also in Linux, right?

Thanks!
(sorry for the many questions :-$)
Simone

 

[NewsyL]

The second question I had is: where to start from when calibrating?

I think you already reset the monitor to factory defaults. With your laptop make sure there is no other color/gamma software loading at startup. Adobe Photoshop used to come with Adobe Gamma. Make sure it and others like it do not start up. The only thing that should load at startup is your calibrator's software.

&nbsp

I did that before only on laptops and there it is easy, because you basically can't set anything ;-).

Make sure the video utility is set back to default if possible.

&nbsp

On the monitor, which things should I set and how before calibrating?

With my Samsung 215TW, at default the brightness is 100 and RGB was 50/50/50. I noticed something this week due your posts that I'd not noted before and that is my Brightness/Contrast on the monitor is opposite the settings many people find successful with other brands of monitors, particularly what I've seen lately with the Dell 2209WA. They usually end up with Brightness/Contrast at 20/70 or similar and with my Samsung it is the opposite 72/29. So I'm going to have to run another calibration and experiment. First I want to change the lighting of my room.

And then with Native White point, and which luminousity?

I've never used Native. I've used the Ambient Light function of the Spyder and followed their suggestions for my room's light - usually 125cd/m2 and 5800K. Then printed samples and tweaked white luminosity until I had the level right.

What you can do is.... run several calibrations for different Temperature parameters and give each calibration a unique name. Then later you can use Spyders' ProfileChooser utilty to switch between them.

There may be a practical use for this.

If you edit during daylight hours and have windows the let light into the workspace, it demands that you use a calibration for that ambient lighting. You may want 6500K for this.

Later in the evening, lighting is better controlled and the calibration should be different. 5800K with your room lighting may work best.

If you use a controlled ambient light for soft proofing you may want 5000K to match the monitor against 5000K light reflecting off your prints.

&nbsp
For white luminance values....

A monitor calibrated to 120 cd/m2 used in a pitch black room would be too bright. You need more like 90 cd/m2 in a black room. Images edited where levels are adjusted would likely print too dark due that by eye, you'd think you need ot reduce the brightness of the image.

A monitor calibrated to 120 cd/m2 used in a small room lit by a 60 watt bulb might be just right. Images edited and levels adjusted by eye would be neither dark nor light - the prints match.

A monitor calibrated to 120 cd/m2 used in a commercial office environment with Workers Compensation Board mandated light levels would be too dark as compared to the ambient light in the room. Images edited and levels adjusted by eye would likely print too light due your eyes told you that you had to increase the levels in the image.

You should use the ambient light function to measure the level in the room and use that to start. Find an image that looks to be correctly exposed by its' histogram - something like this should print match without any levels adjustment.

Calibrate, set the white luminosity to a "Measured" value if the "Pro" software permits it. If it doesn't, you either need to upgrade to the "Elite" version software or you can use HCFR to set the luminance values and then use the Spyder software to set RGB, Temp, and Gamma.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php

help > http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
help > http://www.marcelpatek.com/hcfr.html

Then edit the image in your normal room lighting and adjust levels to what looks right and print. If too dark, monitor is still too bright.

Re-calibrate, adjust white luminosity down a little, do a fresh edit of the same image from the base file and re-print - still too dark, repeat.

&nbsp

Also, I heard that ICC profiles are platform-independent - means I can use the profile generated in Windows also in Linux, right?

Not sure about that one.... I would think so.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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[EDWARD ARTISTE]

Hey folks

I just wanted to say that I have this 245t monitor and have for 2 years now. It is not the sharpest monitor in the world. that said, it comes with several extra calibrated profiles on the disc it comes with if/when it was new, not sure if you have those.

More importantly, I dont think you should be comparing the tuning of this monitor to the other models ive seen other post- especially anything thats a TN panel, as the 245t is an i-sps (or ips, i forget)- due to the native nuances of the screens they use, the results from the settings will not match up. the 245t is known to have a pretty heavy red push, and things like that should be taken into account when trying to calibrate. From my experience, it was extremely difficult to get the monitor to where things looked 'right'. the softness of the monitor has always bothered me to a certain degree, but theres not much i can do about it.

Now I use the monitor as a main screen for my imac 21.5inch, and by i tell ya its pretty night and day- white is white on the default setting of the imac, and i know the glossy screen exaggerates the contrast, but since you have to turn down the brightness for glare reasons on monitors like the 245t, white ends up being a very slightly yellowish in comparison.

thats just my 2 cents.

disclaimer: its quite harder to calibrate with a mac than a pc. and what someone said earlier is accurate- the wide gamut settings and profile will make colors seem off from what you/most of us are used to on more traditional lcds.

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'Only the dead have seen the end of war'