GF1/E-P1 poll results (part 1 of 3)

[duckling]

Disclaimer I: A similar post was submitted a couple of days ago before everybody who wished to participate in the poll had a chance to do so. This is a revised account of the results which includes all the answers obtained.

Disclaimer II: I have NO intention to start a dispute. I started the poll out of personal interest, but I think that the participants deserve a short account of the results. My hypothesis has been largely confirmed by the poll, therefore I may be giving the results more credibility than they deserve.

Disclaimer III: Please be warned that the interpratation of the poll results is my own. I might be completely wrong.

First of all I'd like to thank you for participating in this little poll. In accordance with StillHaveMyDiana's comment, the poll does not intend to represent the entire m4/3 user base. The 75 posters who answered are only a small sample of the users who roam this forum. Still, the results are interesting and suggest that the GF1 and EP1 are perceived as quite different tools to some of us. In fact, looking at the outcome of this poll I'm not even sure to what extent they are direct competitors, but I'll come to that later on.

The poll can be found in this thread: http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=34050070

Let us begin by looking what the questions asked stand for.

• which decade were you born in?

The user's age stands in accordance with experience. Photography enthusiasts who were born in the 60's or earlier and used film interchangeable lens systems are better acquainted with manual operation of cameras and lenses than are younger hobbyists.

• do you use a DSLR?

The purpose of this question was to assess whether the m4/3 system used is perceived as capable of replacing an all-purpose, high IQ system. Users who do not own a DSLR have either upgraded from compact cameras or sold their gear.

• have you owned a film SLR / rangefinder?

The users of film interchangeable lens systems are more likely to be acquainted with prime lenses and advanced focusing techniques (i.e. zone focusing and anticipation) than are those who never used those cameras.

• how many lenses do you regularly use with your m4/3 body?

The number of lenses used on a m4/3 body is indicative of "user level". I am aware to the generalization I made, but I couldn't think of a better objective indication for this elusive quality. User levels were categorized in four groups: one lens, 2, 3-4 and 5 or more.

Results are in the following post.
--
Gallery: http://weatherloony.fruitsens.com/snphoto.html

 

[duckling]

90% of the E-P1 users and 74% of the GF1 users own a film SLR and/or a rangefinder. The difference between the users of those two models is statistically insignificant.

Decade of birth related to the m4/3 model participants use. The percentages of E-P1 users were 71%, 53%, 37%, 27% and 25% for users born in the 40s or earlier, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, respectively. This result was statistically significant. The average years of birth of GF1 and E-P1 users are 1966 and 1961, respectively. The difference was statistically insignificant.

DSLR usage along the m4/3 system also differed between the users of the two models: 83% of the E-P1 users also use a DSLR, while only 62% of the GF1 shooters do so. Again, the difference was statistically significant.

The ownership of film interchangeable lens systems did not differ significantly between the groups. 90% of E-P1 owners and 74% of GF1 owners have used such a system.

Finally, "user level" also differed between the users of those cameras: 51% of GF1 users work with one lens, compared to only 17% of E-P1 users. 32% of GF1 users shoot with three lenses or more, compared to 60% of E-P1 users. This result was statistically significant.

You are welcome to contribute your interpretations of those results. Please bear in mind the limitations of this poll. Some thoughts in the following post.
--
Gallery: http://weatherloony.fruitsens.com/snphoto.html

 

[duckling]

The results demonstrate that the GF1 and E-P1, while sharing the same mount and body format, are perceived quite differently from each other.

The GF1, with its speedy AF and built-in flash, is considered by some as a comprehensive tool capable of replacing an entry level DSLR. It attracts younger, less experienced users as well as photography veterans.

The E-P1 (and E-P2) is perceived as a specialized tool. A vast majority of its users also keep a DSLR. It is not as attractive to young people and to P&S upgraders as the GF1. Most of its owners are seasoned amateurs who can (and like to) live with its limitations.
--
Gallery: http://weatherloony.fruitsens.com/snphoto.html

 

[efix]

The E-P1 (and E-P2) is perceived as a specialized tool. A vast majority of its users also keep a DSLR. It is not as attractive to young people and to P&S upgraders as the GF1. Most of its owners are seasoned amateurs who can (and like to) live with its limitations.

Ha, I'm absolutely out of your statistics! I was born in the '80s, consider myself an advanced hobby photographer, came from P&S systems (I guess you can count the FZ30 as a P&S), own more than one lens (three, at the moment, one of them a legacy manual-focus prime) but no accompanying DSLR system. YAY! I AM STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT! ;-)

 

[Robbie_EP1]

I'm almost exactly the same as efix.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/Robbie_e-p1/

 

[Its me]

A lot of the differences in the percentages could be explained bythe simply fact that the E-P1 was available first. Keen photographers waited for a long time for this type of camera and bought when the first one was available. Could explain the huge difference in DSLR owners buying Oly. I know did although I sold it and purchased the GF1 when it finally became available. Same with lenses. ..when the Oly was first out the pancake was hard to get so even though it was the lens desired by enthusiasts, they purchases the zoom kit and later added the pancake. On the other hand, the GF1 has been available with the pancake 20mm from the start.
--
-Steve

 

[TEBnewyork]

Or that there are really 3 distinct G models out and that there are a lot of very happy G1/GH1 owners that didn't see the need for a GF1. Remember the G1 has been out about 14 months now (I'm not counting the E-P2 as a different model. First it isn't available worldwide yet and really only adds an EVF isn't a different form factor. You could say the GH1 only ads video and that is why I lumped them above).

A lot of the differences in the percentages could be explained bythe simply fact that the E-P1 was available first. Keen photographers waited for a long time for this type of camera and bought when the first one was available. Could explain the huge difference in DSLR owners buying Oly. I know did although I sold it and purchased the GF1 when it finally became available. Same with lenses. ..when the Oly was first out the pancake was hard to get so even though it was the lens desired by enthusiasts, they purchases the zoom kit and later added the pancake. On the other hand, the GF1 has been available with the pancake 20mm from the start.
--
-Steve

--
terry
http://tbanet.zenfolio.com/

 

[imashination]

Finally, "user level" also differed between the users of those cameras: 51% of GF1 users work with one lens, compared to only 17% of E-P1 users.

How much of this is down solely to the existance of the 20mm 1.7 I wonder? It seems from reading here that most GF1 owners are going straight for the camera + 20mm kit and being decently happy with this combo. Whilst a popular choice for the EP owners is to buy the camera with the zoom kit lens and then pick up the panasonic 20mm at the same time/ as the first extra lens shortly after.

 

[duckling]

The 20/1.7 is not your typical kit lens. Restricting one's options to this focal length alone requires a rather high level of skill IMO. Nevertheless, for extracting the most out of any system, more lenses are required. The difference in the proportion of users who shoot with 3 lenses or more is what led me to say that there is a difference in user level.
--
Gallery: http://weatherloony.fruitsens.com/snphoto.html

 

[safaridon]

90% of the E-P1 users and 74% of the GF1 users own a film SLR and/or a rangefinder. The difference between the users of those two models is statistically insignificant.

Decade of birth related to the m4/3 model participants use. The percentages of E-P1 users were 71%, 53%, 37%, 27% and 25% for users born in the 40s or earlier, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s, respectively. This result was statistically significant. The average years of birth of GF1 and E-P1 users are 1966 and 1961, respectively. The difference was statistically insignificant.

DSLR usage along the m4/3 system also differed between the users of the two models: 83% of the E-P1 users also use a DSLR, while only 62% of the GF1 shooters do so. Again, the difference was statistically significant.

The ownership of film interchangeable lens systems did not differ significantly between the groups. 90% of E-P1 owners and 74% of GF1 owners have used such a system.

Finally, "user level" also differed between the users of those cameras: 51% of GF1 users work with one lens, compared to only 17% of E-P1 users. 32% of GF1 users shoot with three lenses or more, compared to 60% of E-P1 users. This result was statistically significant.

You are welcome to contribute your interpretations of those results. Please bear in mind the limitations of this poll. Some thoughts in the following post.

--I think this poll brings out some very interesting points which the manufacturers no doubt are also assessing to make their determinations of what to produce next. However with only a limited number of participants and most likely from the "older generation" as they have perhaps more time on their hands while the younger have other things to do than respond to long questionairs, these results can only at best be indications of trends.

First it is interesting that a wide majority use ther GF1 and EPs in combination with their DSLRs so maybe the manufactures should not try to emphasis them as an all-in-one system which they obviously aren't but rather best as a compliment to other systems both small and large sensor. Not surprising lower percentage of GF1 users with DSLRs as Pany has dropped 4/3rds and 40/1.7 lens is an excellent focal length for a one lens does all. While this may hurt Pany lens sales some by the same token EP users are adding the 20/1.7 lens to their collection. To expand their future m4/3 lens sales both Pany and Oly need better featured models above their present offerings and these likely to be a bit larger to accomodate in body EVF and handle the larger zoom lenses better.

If correct I think the age of buyers of these systems is interesting but bears further analysis. First is mature and older users are the ones with more money to afford this for now relatively expensive camera systems. This does not mean the younger generation that are obviously being targeted by the ads do not like them any less but rather may be buying less expensive systems. Should not be at all surprising that the former users of classic style all metal OMs, FMs, MXs, etc. love these new cameras and their feel.

However that being said there is a danger as this generation is already very "old" and not getting any younger ie as others noted a spike in initial sales but not necessarily sustainable for the long run unless the prices are more attractive. I think this "older more experienced generation" tends to be more "pixel peepers" as opposed to the younger pragmatists who see the quality of pictures they can get from still more compact compacts as being adequate for their needs. Also both young and old less willing to lug all that weight and bulk and expensive lenses around now that there are quality compact alternatives available.

I think this is why the very high popularity of quality compacts like LX3, S90, G11s, TZs etc. and I think this is where the next big emphasis will be and that is already occuring from every indication judging by the new models coming to market now and in new year. This is because it is impossible to produce a wide, fast, and very compact zoom lens or superzoom in any sensor format larger than these compacts.

On the other hand those wanting the highest IQ in a compact system and willing settle on single focal lengths will gravitate to the m4/3 products.

To insure their continued success of m4/3 manufactures like Panasonic and Olympus need to insure that they produce some models at a price at least as low as the entry DSLRs by comparison if not lower as should be feasible in time. Most think this is inevitable as much greater competition from the m APS-C and other smaller formats enters the scene.

 

[duartix]

Finally, "user level" also differed between the users of those cameras: 51% of GF1 users work with one lens, compared to only 17% of E-P1 users. 32% of GF1 users shoot with three lenses or more, compared to 60% of E-P1 users. This result was statistically significant.

I believe IBIS has a decisive role in this matter. If any of the Panasonic m43 offers had IBIS I wouldn't have been waiting for my new camera for one year already...
--
Duarte Bruno

 

[duckling]

Generally, I agree with the trends you recognize. One reservation though: as far as my experience goes the "older generation" tends to rely on ooc jpegs whereas younger people are better accustomed to processing software. However, I don't think this is a major motive for older m4/3 users to prefer the E-P1 over the GF1.
--
Gallery: http://weatherloony.fruitsens.com/snphoto.html

 

[Jeanadriane]

The 20/1.7 is not your typical kit lens. Restricting one's options to this focal length alone requires a rather high level of skill IMO. Nevertheless, for extracting the most out of any system, more lenses are required. The difference in the proportion of users who shoot with 3 lenses or more is what led me to say that there is a difference in user level.
--

Erm, help me get it, Duckling. The way you presented your results suggested to me you establish user level by the number of lenses used? The more lenses used, the higher the user level? Or the other way 'round, using only the 20mm requires more photographic skills = high user level? Maybe the term user level is a bit confusing - could mean either level of use (of gear) by the user, or photographic level of the user. I'm not sure which one you mean.

Anyway, I agree with posters pointing out you can expect Oly-users to have more lenses since they had to buy their EP1 with an Oly kit lens before they coud get their Panny pancake.

 

[Jeanadriane]

... as far as my experience goes the "older generation" tends to rely on ooc jpegs whereas younger people are better accustomed to processing software. However, I don't think this is a major motive for older m4/3 users to prefer the E-P1 over the GF1.
--

That would be SO surprising, given the fact that the older generation grew up with the darkroom and with processing their work. My feeling was that the younger generation, raised on digital, wants OOC JPGs while the oldies and the pro's go for PP. Any correlation between age and choice for EP1, in my guesses, could be attributed to the retro form factor of the EPx. Disclaimer: in my guesses , I said...

 

[BillCarr]

The 20/1.7 is not your typical kit lens. Restricting one's options to this focal length alone requires a rather high level of skill IMO.

Tell that to anyone who bought a manually-focusing SLR ... that would be up until 1987 with Canon's introduction of the EF mount. Before that zoom lens technology was in its relative infancy and they were relatively low-quality compoared to primes. The overwhelmingly typical SLR purchase included a 50mm f/1.8 lens ... and that was it.

Nowadays it's amusing to see people bemoaning prime lenses as somehow being difficult and requiring special skill. No, it just requires a little practice.

 

[duckling]

Actually I agree. My first SLR gear was an Olympus OM2 with a 50mm f/1.8. It was all I used for a few years. The limited flexibility of a fixed focal length together with the fast maximum aperture taught me a lot about composition.
--
Gallery: http://weatherloony.fruitsens.com/snphoto.html