Focus points on the K-x, what's your take?

[Model Mike]

Sure there is. If you're going to just let the camera to pick a focus point for you, why would you need the camera to tell you what it picked?

Marc, there are situations where having AF point indication is a useful convenience.

For example if you happen to be in Matrix mode (for whatever reason), and are shooting a scene which would normally demand Multi-point AF (e.g. for centre/recompose): knowing that Matrix mode would select the correct focus point means that you don't need to switch to Multi-point mode just for one shot.

Personally, I very rarely use matrix AF so the absence of real time focus point indicaters wouldn't affect me much (though given the choice, I would still like them). However not all people work the same way.
--
Mike
http://flickr.com/rc-soar

 

[joeoptics]

Roland,

Thanks for this post. I have had the k-x for a month and feel sheepish, because I completely missed the little hex dot in the viewfinder which indicates focus. This is helpful because the focus beep occurs only once, but you can look at the dot any time.

David Lees

There is no lack of confirmation, that is a misunderstanding that seems to repeat itself here over and over again.

The K-x do shows focus confirmation in the viewfinder! It can also activate a sound to confirm focus if one wants too. (I prefer to have it off).

What the K-x doesn't do, is that it doesn't show which of the AF points are active.

So it confirms focus, but it just doesn't tell you which focus point was active in the viewfinder.

If you want to see focus points, you can see them at the back LCD. Not in the viewfinder, you use the back LCD to select which one of the focus points to be active.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo

--
David

 

[earful]

of all the ruined shots that can be attributed to this flaw. possibly i missed them because i did not read every post in this thread - though i did work my way through the majority, i believe.

 

[Marc Sabatella]

And why did Pentax bother to beef it up so much spec and customisation wise, if it's for a p&s user??

Because the assumption is that they do in fact do what the letters P&S imply: point and shoot. Not point, then look at the flashing light, think about whether it is on their subject, then take the camera away from their face so they can figure out how to navigate the menu user-select AF point mode, then repeat the process. If you're the type of user who trusts the camera to pick a focus point for you, then you generally don't need to be informed about it.

--
Marc Sabatella
http://www.marcsabatella.com/
Blog: http://marcsabatella.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsabatella/

 

[Marc Sabatella]

Marc, there are situations where having AF point indication is a useful convenience.

Of course there are. Just as there are situations where having SR is, or a pentprism viewfinder, or a wired remote socket, or a focus motor, or MLU, or spot metering, or any of the other things I mentioned that entry-level cameras have left out.

--
Marc Sabatella
http://www.marcsabatella.com/
Blog: http://marcsabatella.blogspot.com/
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[John Tracy]

of all the ruined shots that can be attributed to this flaw. possibly i missed them because i did not read every post in this thread - though i did work my way through the majority, i believe.

I don't think anyone believes it will be a major cause of any ruined shots but it's a feature that I wouldn't want missing on my dslr.

I also wouldn't want the hassle of having to carry , change , and charge 4 separate batteries . That might still be the norm for some low end Point and Shoots but it isn't exactly state of the art.

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Because the assumption is that they do in fact do what the letters P&S imply: point and shoot. Not point, then look at the flashing light, think about whether it is on their subject, then take the camera away from their face so they can figure out how to navigate the menu user-select AF point mode, then repeat the process. If you're the type of user who trusts the camera to pick a focus point for you, then you generally don't need to be informed about it.

The entire point about a SLR camera is full control.

What better way to ruin your composition then taking the camera away from your eye. I don't see p&s spec in much of the K-x, in fact far from it.

My point remains, if decade old film cameras can indicate the active AF point, then there is no reason why a 2009 model cannot. And budget ones too.

I've never let any reflex pick the AF point, neither would I suggest anyone does.

It seems Pentax users are just as willing to make up excuses for mistakes, as Sony ones..sadly, there is little objectivity in either forum. I think it's a real shame, as some potential buyers will pass it up, just on the AF indication alone.

 

[joeoptics]

John Tracy wrote:
...

I also wouldn't want the hassle of having to carry , change , and charge 4 separate batteries . That might still be the norm for some low end Point and Shoots but it isn't exactly state of the art.

-------

I disagree strongly with this comment and believe it is an upside down view of things. I have cameras with those proprietary batteries and I dislike them.

First, as many others have pointed out, you can use Eneloop rechargables directly out of the package, so there is no need to charge batteries before using them. Unlike a proprietary battery, which you need to open and charge up first.

Second, unlike the proprietary batteries which say a Nikon D40 or a Panasonic LX3 (owned by the poster) use, the K-X batteries may be purchased at any supermarket or drug store.

Third, the rechargables are cheaper than the 40 to 50 dollar proprietary batteries used in many cameras. And I am forced to purchase a spare proprietary battery so I can have a charged spare handy, because they are unavailable anywhere except high end camera stores.

Fourth, if I am traveling, I need to carry a proprietary charger, to go with the proprietary battery. Which is not really necessary for the K-X, since I can carry a light weight set of non-rechargables (58 grams for a full set, which is about the same as the 51 grams that a Nikon EN-EL9 for the D40 weights). And you need to carry a separate charger for each proprietary battery type.

Finally, the battery life seems excellent with the K-X and I am still waiting for my garden variety 2650 mAh NimH batteries to run down so I can stick the Eneloops in my camera bag into them.

--
David Lees

 

[hwalker]

I'm looking really hard at the K7 and the KX but the K7 looks a bit too noisy for my taste in high ISO, and the KX...well does lack this feature. (and I'm a bit worried about the lowlight AF, but that's another story)

The problem is that I'm looking to get a camera to do a lot of portrait work where I often want to blur out the background with shallow DoF. In which case knowing where the camera is focusing is critical.

I'm sure many of us had gave the camera to someone else for a shot while traveling and later found out the focus was on the wrong object, usually the background. I don't know how accurate the KX's AF system is for such situation.

Ok so it's well known that the K-x doesn't show where it focused, it does confirm subject in focus, but not what point it focused on, like on the nikon d5000 ( just an example).

Anyway.... I'd like to know, have you ever misfocused because of this? Eg. When you took your picture you focused on the side and instead you got center focusing? Or maybe focused on foreground but then when reviewing you got see the camera go the background instead?

 

[kristian2000]

It seems Pentax users are just as willing to make up excuses for mistakes, as Sony ones..sadly, there is little objectivity in either forum. I think it's a real shame, as some potential buyers will pass it up, just on the AF indication alone.

I think that's OTT, look the K-x is a camera the in the US in selling for around $500, delivers on image quality, has a ton of other features, but lacks focus point confirmation lights. Do I wish the K-x had them? sure, but you know, you just can't have everything for $500, I'm not really trying to make excuses for Pentax, but other than the omission of the AF light indicator, it's a very nice little camera.

For some reason, I think if the K-x had AF indicator lights, I'd imagine that you wold be here ripping the K-x for the lesser SR system, claiming that was a deal breaker!
--



Kristian Farren

 

[Jonathan Wilson]

I am a left eyed shooter, simple point is, Pentax messed up on this one area. I don't do workarounds, I expect the AF points to be indicated in the VF, this is a very basic feature.

I don't think its a screw up at all and I think the K-x benefits greatly out weigh the dissadvantages when looking at the competition. As an ex Canon supporter, one thing I really appreciate about Pentax is its view on keeping backwards lense compatibility (I had a bit of an expensive loss on Canon FD lenses and have had friends caught out by Nikon changes too).

I'm a left eyed shooter too. Although I'm new to DSLRs have used SLRs for some time. I can't for the life of me work out what all the fuss is about, it just seems such a minor thing to me. Granted, that if you are used to using focus points, then it would be an inconvenience until you were used to it.

At first I thought it was crazy how it defaulted to 11 point focussing (I ended up with it changed to single point within a couple of days) but as people have pointed out it can be useful for moving / panning shots where there is not time (or not practical) to select the area manually. And this has proved so when taking shots of the kids!

Yes it would have been nice if I had had some indication that the focus points were not as I wanted but it would not have changed the solution for me (manually changing focus point just seems too fiddly to me unless you are working on a tripod and then you have the status screen anyway).

BTW, I have actually found some of the Scene modes quite useful. Often I find there is a limited time window to get a shot and flicking to an appropriate scene (like Kids mode which is currently left on my Scene position) has allowed me to capture some shots well that I may have otherwise missed out on. However do I need the selected scene mode shown on the VF - no.

 

[Jonathan Wilson]

I also wouldn't want the hassle of having to carry , change , and charge 4 separate batteries . That might still be the norm for some low end Point and Shoots but it isn't exactly state of the art.

Ok I will bite ;-) Its the old AA versus proprietory Lithium debate.

Personally I love the AAs (after being caught out with a dead Lithium in a camera and laboured with high cost of spares). What it would take for me to shift my view (and many others probably) would be more standardisation in rechargable Lithiums packs.

Lack of standardisation only profits the equipment manufacturer (and even thats a bit of a false economy).

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

It seems Pentax users are just as willing to make up excuses for mistakes, as Sony ones..sadly, there is little objectivity in either forum. I think it's a real shame, as some potential buyers will pass it up, just on the AF indication alone.

I think that's OTT, look the K-x is a camera the in the US in selling for around $500, delivers on image quality, has a ton of other features, but lacks focus point confirmation lights. Do I wish the K-x had them? sure, but you know, you just can't have everything for $500, I'm not really trying to make excuses for Pentax, but other than the omission of the AF light indicator, it's a very nice little camera.

EU prices are not nearly as appealing in this respect, it's about £530+

I agree if you pay less, you forgive some things, however it's current price seems too high to let that slip

For some reason, I think if the K-x had AF indicator lights, I'd imagine that you wold be here ripping the K-x for the lesser SR system, claiming that was a deal breaker!

For some reason I expected you to say that, even though I didn't mention SR at all.

I have no loyalty to any brand, nor any problems letting rip when needed, again. budget film SLR says lighting AF points can be done, and cheaply. I think Pentax over pumped the spec (which is good) but then decided to rip something out so they didn't upset K-7 sales too much ;-)

 

[John Tracy]

snow4ever wrote:

I'd imagine that you wold be here ripping the K-x for the lesser SR system, claiming that was a deal breaker!

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Kristian Farren

Actually the SR did not fare well according to the review and as it mentioned you have to spend considerably more money to get SR in their lenses. I think this is a serious consideration too.

 

[Joele]

When I came back to Pentax from Nikon my fiancee stayed with Nikon due the this feature of the lower end pentax range...

She likes to select the focusu point and doesn't focus-recompose.. but different people shoot different ways..

------------
Joel - K7, DA15, FA31, FA50, Voigt 90/3.5, DA*200
My Gallery: http://www.eisner.id.au

 

[Marc Sabatella]

The entire point about a SLR camera is full control.

Perhaps, but I was responding to your comment about the target market being the P&S shooter. Which is it? Someone wanting full control, or a P&S shooter? I'd agree the K-x is not an ideal for that subset of the former group who actually use selectable focus points (although surely you realize a sizable percentage - perhaps a majority - use center only).

What better way to ruin your composition then taking the camera away from your eye.

Perhaps, but that's the only way to switch to user-select mode from the default P&S mode on any entry level camera. Which is precisely my point - people are so concerned about lack of indicators for the P&S crowd, but really, many in the P&S crowd doesn't use these - they literally point and shoot.

My point remains, if decade old film cameras can indicate the active AF point, then there is no reason why a 2009 model cannot. And budget ones too.

True, unless you are tryng to produce a camera with SR and a focus motor for the same price as a camera that lacks those features. Something's got to give.

It seems Pentax users are just as willing to make up excuses for mistakes

I have no proof -and neither do you - that it was in fact mistake. The alternative would have been to cut some other feature instead to make that price point, or else to charge more for the camera. Do you have actual marketing data to prove which would have been the better choice? I see no reason to assume your wild guess is better than Pentax's carefully considered decision, although FWIW, I'm guessing that if it only added $50 to the price, that this would have been the better choice. Still, if "experts" weren't going on and on about how terrible it is to cut a feature that most of the target market would probably never use, it wouldn't have seemed such a mistake.

--
Marc Sabatella
http://www.marcsabatella.com/
Blog: http://marcsabatella.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsabatella/

 

[Marc Sabatella]

I also wouldn't want the hassle of having to carry , change , and charge 4 separate batteries .

I can only guess you've never actually used such a camera if you imagine this is more of a hassle than needing separate chargers for every electronic device you own, having to special order replacement batteries (and hope they are still even manufactured any more), or if you imagine you need to think of AA'a as four "separate" batteries. While the differences are greatly exaggerated on both sides, there is no denying that a large number of people prefer standard AA's proprietary batteries. Luckily, Pentax knows this.

--
Marc Sabatella
http://www.marcsabatella.com/
Blog: http://marcsabatella.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsabatella/

 

[MightyMike]

Yeah i paid $102.55 CAD after trading in my K20D and selling one of my K20D batteries... i can forgive a lot at that price
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Yeah i paid $102.55 CAD after trading in my K20D and selling one of my K20D batteries... i can forgive a lot at that price
--
Mike from Canada

So how much did the K20d cost?? lol

 

[Jim King]

Thanks for a very practical positive assessment rather than a bunch of theoretical objections. In practical terms, the choices that Pentax made for the K-x feature set are outstanding for its target market, IMO. Those who find the lack of focus point indicators upsetting seem to be (mainly) more upscale users, and some seem bent on finding something, anything, to kvetch about.
--
Jim King - Retired Colormonger - Suburban Detroit, Michigan, USA; GMT -5h (EST)
Pentaxian for over 45 years.



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