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MLU---real photos impossible without it

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Apparently so.
 
More like, it's impossible to take good photos with MLU. Impossible to get any action shot with MLU, pointless without tripod, and how many times do you use a tripod in photography?
 
chych said:
More like, it's impossible to take good photos with MLU. Impossible to get any action shot with MLU,
Click to expand...
Are you really sure about this??

pointless without tripod, and how many times do you use a tripod in photography?

Oh probably about 80% of the time, LOL!!

Different strokes for different folks.

--
Long live the HMS Beagle
Critiques always welcome!
 
Is it possible to make a good photograph without one?

Your question is either stupid or trolling. Of course it's possible, but under some situations you want MLU and a tripod just as under some circumstances you want f/2 and ISO 1600. Here's a hint, the situations where you want the former are mutually exclusive to the situations where you want the latter.
--
Anthony Beach
 
Rockhound said:
Is it impossible to take good photos without MLU?
Click to expand...
Don't be silly.

Do you use a tripod for every shot you shoot?
Do you shoot only in moderate to low light?
Do you always need the lens stopped well down for DOF?
Do you never use flash?

And dozens of other things. MLU is a tool for certain photographic shots, not all.

Photography is a wide and varied field. With experience people can get good at shooting all kinds of shots under all kinds of conditions. With experience people will learn when to use MLU and when you don't have to.

I use MLU for a lot of my supported shots, but not near all. I use it where experience has taught me it may improve the sharpness of the photo. That is much wider than folks keep discussing here. I most certainly do not set around calculating if the shutter speed will be right or not, just set MLU when the conditions are such it may be needed and get on with the important stuff like composition. Under the same conditions I do a whole bunch of other things too. Like choose a support thats going to be appropriate to my gear and my desire for sharp photos. I nearly always use a remote release when using a tripod. I don't debate such things, I do what experience has taught me works. It's a whole set of things that go together, MLU is a item on that list.

What you need to do is get out shooting. Evaluate your tripod for vibration and if it's not doing the job, buy a much better tripod. Same with your tripod head. And read what this guy says about saving money on tripods (though you don't have to buy the models he suggests as your only choice for a top tripod):
http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

If you don't have a short remote, get one and learn to use it. Learn to set up your tripod to suppress vibrations when it's used. And don't worry about MLU, if you have it then use it anytime you shoot from support if it's possible to do so. Who cares if the shot you take that time did not need it. If you are in the habit of using it then it will be used when it does matter. If you start picking and choosing you will for sure leave it off on that non repeatable lifetime shot where it would have given you what you need for the perfect shot.

If you don't have MLU, weight the tripod and the camera. A moderately heavy beanbag draped on top the camera will help. Experiment, Improve your chances any way you can. And realize without MLU some types of shots may be problematic. You find out which ones by shooting as each setup is different.

And, if you are advancing in your hobby, wanting to do better and better shots, then check if MLU is on your next camera. It's one of the criteria for an advanced camera, but not the only one.

Walt
 
photonut2008 said:
Is it possible to make a good photograph without one?

Your question is either stupid or trolling. Of course it's possible, but under some situations you want MLU and a tripod just as under some circumstances you want f/2 and ISO 1600. Here's a hint, the situations where you want the former are mutually exclusive to the situations where you want the latter.
Click to expand...
I can think of a few shots where you would want both and cross your fingers too. Around twilight, mostly, or in a deep woods, for instance.

Walt
 
WaltKnapp said:
photonut2008 wrote:

Here's a hint, the situations where you want the former are mutually exclusive to the situations where you want the latter.

I can think of a few shots where you would want both and cross your fingers too. Around twilight, mostly, or in a deep woods, for instance.
Click to expand...
I would respectfully disagree. If there is so much motion in the scene [such as wind blown trees] that you are pumping up ISO to get a fast enough shutter speed to minimize the blur from that, then the purpose of using a tripod and MLU is defeated and you might as well handhold the shot.
--
Anthony Beach
 
photonut2008 said:
WaltKnapp said:
photonut2008 wrote:

Here's a hint, the situations where you want the former are mutually exclusive to the situations where you want the latter.

I can think of a few shots where you would want both and cross your fingers too. Around twilight, mostly, or in a deep woods, for instance.
Click to expand...
I would respectfully disagree. If there is so much motion in the scene [such as wind blown trees] that you are pumping up ISO to get a fast enough shutter speed to minimize the blur from that, then the purpose of using a tripod and MLU is defeated and you might as well handhold the shot.
Click to expand...
Is that the only condition under which those settings are used? For all photographers? The previous poster allso was limited in his vision of the scope of photography in saying never to the combo. Which is an absolute, as in never for any photographer. I simply said that never was wrong and sometimes was right. Some shots would use the combo.

And here you are with just one out of the galaxy of possible uses.

I'd not even agree that handholding is necessary. Or even that you want to remove the motion. There are many ways to compose such a shot. You have chosen one.

Walt
 
Walt,

Thanks for this great reply. It has everything I care for about MLU. You show why MLU can be important, how to use it and how to work around it when your camera don't have it!

I agree with your post, in total, burt the part about always using MLU when taking pictures from a tripod is an advise I will follow from now on! thanks again!
WaltKnapp said:
Rockhound said:
Is it impossible to take good photos without MLU?
Click to expand...
Don't be silly.

Do you use a tripod for every shot you shoot?
Do you shoot only in moderate to low light?
Do you always need the lens stopped well down for DOF?
Do you never use flash?

And dozens of other things. MLU is a tool for certain photographic shots, not all.

Photography is a wide and varied field. With experience people can get good at shooting all kinds of shots under all kinds of conditions. With experience people will learn when to use MLU and when you don't have to.

I use MLU for a lot of my supported shots, but not near all. I use it where experience has taught me it may improve the sharpness of the photo. That is much wider than folks keep discussing here. I most certainly do not set around calculating if the shutter speed will be right or not, just set MLU when the conditions are such it may be needed and get on with the important stuff like composition. Under the same conditions I do a whole bunch of other things too. Like choose a support thats going to be appropriate to my gear and my desire for sharp photos. I nearly always use a remote release when using a tripod. I don't debate such things, I do what experience has taught me works. It's a whole set of things that go together, MLU is a item on that list.

What you need to do is get out shooting. Evaluate your tripod for vibration and if it's not doing the job, buy a much better tripod. Same with your tripod head. And read what this guy says about saving money on tripods (though you don't have to buy the models he suggests as your only choice for a top tripod):
http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

If you don't have a short remote, get one and learn to use it. Learn to set up your tripod to suppress vibrations when it's used. And don't worry about MLU, if you have it then use it anytime you shoot from support if it's possible to do so. Who cares if the shot you take that time did not need it. If you are in the habit of using it then it will be used when it does matter. If you start picking and choosing you will for sure leave it off on that non repeatable lifetime shot where it would have given you what you need for the perfect shot.

If you don't have MLU, weight the tripod and the camera. A moderately heavy beanbag draped on top the camera will help. Experiment, Improve your chances any way you can. And realize without MLU some types of shots may be problematic. You find out which ones by shooting as each setup is different.

And, if you are advancing in your hobby, wanting to do better and better shots, then check if MLU is on your next camera. It's one of the criteria for an advanced camera, but not the only one.

Walt
Click to expand...
 
  • I use a tripod a lot more than i expected when i was in the search for one.
  • I believe MLU would help adding that little extra magic to a great photo
--
Χριστόφορος (Chris)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/christophorosp
 
No hard feelings here Walt. As I said in my last reply, I respectfully disagree.
WaltKnapp said:
photonut2008 said:
WaltKnapp said:
photonut2008 wrote:

Here's a hint, the situations where you want the former are mutually exclusive to the situations where you want the latter.

I can think of a few shots where you would want both and cross your fingers too. Around twilight, mostly, or in a deep woods, for instance.
Click to expand...
I would respectfully disagree. If there is so much motion in the scene [such as wind blown trees] that you are pumping up ISO to get a fast enough shutter speed to minimize the blur from that, then the purpose of using a tripod and MLU is defeated and you might as well handhold the shot.
Click to expand...
Is that the only condition under which those settings are used? For all photographers? The previous poster also was limited in his vision of the scope of photography in saying never to the combo. Which is an absolute, as in never for any photographer. I simply said that never was wrong and sometimes was right. Some shots would use the combo.
Click to expand...
Take your forest example for instance. Pumping the ISO up reduces DR, thus you are not shooting optimally by doing so. Now you may say that you are trading something in exchange for the reduced DR and increased noise, but then you get back to the question of why you bothered to use MLU under those conditions in the first place.
WaltKnapp said:
And here you are with just one out of the galaxy of possible uses.
Click to expand...
Ah, but you are arguing in the abstract. You can "think of a few" situations where you want a fast lens, a high ISO, and a slow shutter speed that tangibly benefits from MLU. I can imagine them, but I would do everything I could to get around some part of that (starting with reducing the high ISO).
WaltKnapp said:
I'd not even agree that handholding is necessary. Or even that you want to remove the motion. There are many ways to compose such a shot. You have chosen one.
Click to expand...
The OP was about MLU. Anyway, it's not the one approach that I would select, but the one approach I would not select that is the issue here. For me MLU, and a fast lens with high ISO are mutually exclusive -- YMMV, but I have seen far too many examples where the photographer cranks up the ISO in lieu of more effective solutions.
--
Anthony Beach
 
chych wrote:
and how many times do you use a tripod in photography?

While I agree that MLU is of limited use, this has got to be one of the most ludicrous statements ever. Most macro photographers would likely be on a tripod 90%+ of the time.

--

I'd love to engage in a battle of the wits with you, but it appears you're unarmed.
 
Here´s a small example. I was taking my time on a shot I wanted the best I could possibly get, as I had been invited in the Belfry of Lausanne´s Cathedral by its guard. A once in a lifetime occasion, not likely to repeat anywhen soon. It´s a volunteer´s job, my friend is on duty about twice a year and the number of his invitees are of course regulated and limited.

So I set up tripod, camera, the lens I´d chosen for the job, cable release, aperture and shutter stuff, focus, pressed the button and... heard the mirror slap and saw the picture appearing on the LCD. Second slap was from my hand, on my forehead. I had forgotten to enable MLU! Here´s the result of that:

A900, Sigma 20-40/f2.8, f11, 8s, iso200, no MLU



It was also a bit too dark to my taste, so I added 2s more to shutter, and switched MLU on:
A900, Sigma 20-40/f2.8, f11, 10s, iso200, with MLU



I can see the difference between the two on my monitor, but in case some don´t, here are the 100% crops of it:

8s shot no MLU



10s shot with MLU



No post processing at all, just converted from raw to jpeg using Aperture.
 
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